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Too Human update: Silicon Knights sues Epic Games

Posted Jul 19, 2007 at 8:57PM EST by QJ Staff

Listed in: Xbox 360 Tags: Denis Dyack, Epic Games, Mark Rein, Silicon Knights, Unreal Engine

Not long after stating that Too Human was exceeding all expectations, Silicon Knights chief Denis Dyack surprised the gaming community by filing a lawsuit against Epic Games. Claiming they've been subjected to numerous breaches of contract ever since they licensed the Unreal Engine 3, Silicon Knights was left with no choice but to go to court to sue Epic Games for Fraud, Misrepresentation, Unfair Competition, and Breach of Contract just to name a few.

Silicon Knights claims that instead of getting the support promised to them when they bought their license to the Unreal Engine, Epic Games was "sabotaging efforts by Silicon Knights and others to develop their own video games" by using "fees from those licenses to launch its own game to widespread commercial success" instead of developing the engine for their licensees.

Citing Too Human's E3 '06 demo as an example, Dyack states that the game's negative feedback was a direct result of Epic's sabotage to make their own titles look good. "Epic apparently was able to achieve a very useable version of the Engine for the Xbox 360 Â– the version that it kept to itself, for use only on its Gears of War game," Dyack said. As a result, Too Human had poor game impressions while Gears of War went on to win "best of show".

Silicon Knights has since decided to scrap the use of Epic Game's Unreal Engine 3, and develop an independent engine on their own.

Mark Rein responded by stating that Epic Games is innocent and that "the claims against us (Epic Games) are unfounded and without merit, and we intend to fully defend against them."

So does this mean another delay? Most probably. Comments from both companies seem to indicate that this case may stay in the courts for a while. And just when we thought things were going so well, things had to hit the fan. For more information on what the lawsuit entails, you can check out the read link below.

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i swear Microsoft have a hand in this...[average gamers and teens who understand nothing about market and economics,and know little of MS history shouldnt bother reading or replying]

to anyone who thinks microsoft is on good terms with Epic because of Gears of war....y-o-u a-r-e B-L-I-N-D

this reeks of microsoft,this is exactly what MS did in the past in its monopoly of OS market,by supporting another group to sue a group that microsoft wants to put pressure on or put down

as of why would microsoft direct silicon Knights to do this,for the simple following:

-Epic refused to make UT3 Vista only,thus crumbling Microsofts efforts to force people into vista,the game will be available for xp

-not only that..even worse for microsoft that UT3 will be available for the MAC OS and possibly even Linux,this is a huge blow to MS "force people into Vista plan"...people are no longer forced to go to Vista to play one of the best PC multi-player game [the most widely MOD supported],they can get it on their MAC and linux

-Even worse...Epic refused to make the game use the "Games for windows Live" the MS service equivalent to live in which you have to Pay fees to get online play on PC [another disgusting attempt to milk consumers even in the always free pc online gaming department]

as mark rein already said the game will have its own Free PC online experience and wont use "Windows Live"

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/806/806613p1.html

"UT3 does not use Games for Windows LIVE. We have not decided about cross platform play between PC and PS3," Mark rein

-Even worse for microsoft Epic annouced a deal to optimize and improve the Unreal Engine 3 performance on the PS3,with UT3 the biggest and best Mulit-player FPS been exclusive to the system for over 6 months if not more with full Mod support,a huge blow to the 360 which is currently in its worse moment

Microsoft Monopoly is in a very bad position,betwee n the crap Vista and Linux already becoming more adopted and streamlined to the public for FREE [and worse people are actually starting to embrace Linux and discovered that all the myths of it been hard is BS],their monopoly schemes of forcing people is failing

and Epic is contributing to this failure....they are not doing what microsoft,s wants them and proving to be an obstacle,they offered UT3 and UE3 for all platforms,and they licensed the engine to so many developers,and they arent using Windows Live,Epic is getting much more control in the gaming development market,this threatens Microsoft

MS monopolist ideology cannot allow such a threat to exist,it has to hunt them down like it always did in the OS market from forcing OEM pc manufacturers to use windows only,to threating Linux users

its very logical for them to support Silicon knight....they need to put some pressure on Epic and stop their growth

very...very...Microsoft-like indeed,i still wait for the day this corrupted corporation loses it monopoly

hopefuly,Epic will continue regardless of MS tries....we need this open competiton enviroment that epic is doing,MS must not have what it wants

# . — lmxloco 2007-07-20 04:27

This was a stupid move by Silicon Knights. If they want to sue Epic for breach of contract or whatever, then that's their prerogative...but to blame Epic for bad reviews on their game shows an incredible lack of business maturity.

SK should've taken the criticism a year ago and ran with it in order to continue to develop the Too Human and make it as good as possible. Show the naysayers that they were wrong. They did that, to an extent...but now this.

They pull this childish move and blame another company for a poor showing a year ago. Hearing this type of news from a company developing a game I was looking forward to makes me think twice about purchasing the game when it comes out.

# I'm still excited about this game — Guest 2007-07-20 04:28

I don't care what people say. This game isn't vaporware. And it's going to rock.

# . — Guest 2007-07-20 04:41

Linux still holds 2% of the computer market, and of that 2%, most of it is servers. So shove that idea.

# *Yawn* You really have to get a life you know — Guest 2007-07-20 06:06

All you ever do here is post one anti-MS/anti-360 post after another, with your usual means of twisting the facts.

For example;

>"Even worse for microsoft Epic annouced a deal to optimize and improve the Unreal Engine 3 performance on the PS3"

From the time they announced the engine for next-gen consoles, they have stated that they are (and have been) optimizing their engine for EACH platform. So this isn't a PS3 exclusive activity, Epic have been optimizing their engine for the PC, PS3 AND 360. In fact, it's their optimizations for the 360 which has led to improved performance on the PC;

http://news.filefront.com/sweeney-talks-unreal-engine-3-and-ut-3-technology/

So all you prove time and time again is that extreme bias only breeds extreme stupidity, since everything is filtered and skewed to fit in with the biased perception, rather than to fit in with the facts availalble.

Just for once it would be good to see you post here as a gamer who simply enjoys games, instead of as a biased gamer with a hatred towards MS.

Somehow, I can't see that happening anytime soon. Sad.

# Oh great — Guest 2007-07-20 06:30

The only thing this lawsuit does is slow production on these great games. Who cares what the game looked like while in production, it only matters in the final version.

# thick-head did you even read my post.... — Guest 2007-07-20 06:43

didnt you even read the note i put at the beginning...

the entire purpose of the post is to emphasize that Epic made UT3 and UE3 multi-platform and how is that hurting MS monopoly...what does MS feed you and you ended up like this

"they offered UT3 and UE3 for all platforms,and they licensed the engine to so many developers,and they arent using Windows Live,Epic is getting much more control in the gaming development market,this threatens Microsoft"

was that so hard to read....or perhaps the post is too long

jesus..

# Ah yes, a typical 'The_Regulator' reply. — Guest 2007-07-20 07:55

The same fanboy behaviour you express elsewhere.

Firstly, the note you put at the beginning means nothing. I've been in the computer industry (working) since 1988, so I'm well aware of MS, marketing and whatever BS you try to pass off as fact.

"the entire purpose of the post is to emphasize that Epic made UT3 and UE3 multi-platform and how is that hurting MS monopoly...what does MS feed you and you ended up like this"

No, it was a post of brainless fanboy rhetoric, which as I explained already, is typical of you. The point you raise are laughable, mostly because they are not points at all. Sticking to the one example I've identified, explain why you consider the engine being optimized for the PS3 is somehow bad for MS. Every game engine should be (and is) optimized for the platform it's on, UE3 is no different.

"was that so hard to read....or perhaps the post is too long"

No, because you're making no point. Epic have been making the UT games for years, using their OWN technology for the network code. Why should this change for UT3? And MS do not license out their own game engines, so how is UT3 a threat to MS? It's not a threat or a problem for MS except to your biased and distorted little mind.

So enough of your pretence, you're a PS3 fanboy and have proven it countlesstimes with your posts here;

eg. Here's one topic you left because you couldn't get your own way anyone;

http://ps3.qj.net/Killzone-2-E3-2005-E3-2007-comparison-pre-rendered-against-real-time/pg/49/aid/97609#comments

BTW, you haven't come back with your Halo/Renderware info. ;)

So give it a rest kid, you're not fooling anyone.

# And before you pick it up... — Guest 2007-07-20 08:16

"so how is UT3 a threat to MS?"

Yes, that have been "so how is UE3 a threat to MS?"

Microsoft selected this game engine for the same reasons Sony did. It's not a threat to either company, regardless of how popular it is.

Epic's Unreal Engine 3 has been incredibly successful with a huge number of games in developement using it. But Silicon Knights have issues with the game engine and the support they were getting from Epic, but they are ONE DEVELOPER out of how many? No really, how many? ONE DEVELOPER.

And yet despite this being a story about ONE DEVELOPER Silicon Knights vs Epic, you in a typical fanboy manner try to turn this into MS vs Epic, when it's nothing of the sort.

So sure, MS have a hand in this, let's ignore the fact that countless games from MS studios and games being developed for the 360 are using the SAME engine, because ONE developer has a problem with Epic, then it can't be only about that developer and Epic, oh no, it just HAS to be MS. *rolleyes*

Like I said, typical, stupid, fanboy behaviour from you.

# ^ i completely agree gamerz ^ — Guest 2007-07-20 08:43

gamerz wrote: "And yet despite this being a story about ONE DEVELOPER Silicon Knights vs Epic, you in a typical fanboy manner try to turn this into MS vs Epic, when it's nothing of the sort."

yes, this is about silicon knights and epic, it got nothing to do with ms. youre right, he's just a dumb fanboy, as anyone can see if they read all of that link you posted (player97 was awesome in that thread hehehe).

# Blind.... — Guest 2007-07-20 09:39

...or perhaps a microsoft associated figure,both are possible

what you will never comprehend is that MS entry into the gaming market is simply a part in a strategy to secure its monopoly control over the OS computer market,MS already forsaw the threat coming from Mac and Linux,and with every computer free of Windows,MS will lose a windows customer as well as a Microsoft office customer,this could kill the company

the best way to make people stick to windows,is through Games,but MS main problem is that people are more and more using consoles for gaming,and in the near future nothing will stop people from abandoning Windows to another alternative that is potentialy free,[specailly with Wine improving every day]

the entire 360 venture is nothing more than a protection move for thier interests "monopoly",and when Epic,a company that licensed the UE3 to so many developers [even in japan] starts putting its biggest games on "Mac and Linux" [thus putting an example that other studios may follow] and starts gaining more and more control over game development.....THAT IS A MAJOR PROBLEM for MS,this could lead to many other studios to follow suit and release their games on Multiple Platforms [OS]

nearly all MS exclusive games are UE3 based,from mass effect to bioshock,yet all of this relationship building was not enough to prevent Epic from going multi-platform with the engine [by multiplatform i mean multiple OS...dont let your thick head go to the PS3]

so yes...Epic actions constitute a threat to MS "Games for windows" compaign,and should Epic keeps getting more control and releasing games on mac and linux,you may not need Windows to run games anymore in the very near future,and MS could potentialy lose billions,multip le organizations and corporations world-wide are very hesistant to upgarade to vista....last thing MS needs is to lose the House-hold windows market

the Silicon Knights lawsuit could very well be the result of this,MS has a history of charging Lawsuits and threating,this is nothing new to them,it doesnt have to be directly MS,microsoft stood with SCO against IBM,they can easily stand with Silicon Knights to put some pressure on Epic as they always did with PC OEM dealers

failure to see the big picture is simply you been narrow-visioned,the Silicon Knights case may not be made by MS [and i almost certainly think it is],but saying that Epics actions didnt p-i-s-s the ***** out of microsoft is plain stupid

this will be the last time i reply to your garbage said words [not to mention the stupid habit of double posting]....if you work for MS [and i believe so] then i have just wasted some of my time,as i realize microsoft has thousands of trash viral marketers

i dont care how much MS pays you people...consumers come first,not the interests of some corrupted company

End of topic

# ahh.....by the way — Guest 2007-07-20 09:45

dont create illusionary supporters [Gamerfeed-Player97 crap...all the same person],i can pick hundreds of names and start supporting myself...

but that kind of defeat the purpose for me ;)

i guess do everything to protect the empire......my some people will do everything

disgusting indeed

# your — Guest 2007-07-20 10:11

your posts dont prove anything man know one knows that microsoft is or is not doing this except microsoft, the only thing that I believe is that microsoft buys software from companies that is makes sense and I dont see the problem with that buying and selling happens everyday.

# silicon knights — Guest 2007-07-20 10:14

should use ids new engine 5 too human would look even better sure it would delay the game some more but the results would be breath taking

# ^^^ Predictable as always. — Guest 2007-07-20 10:35

Next time, before mouthing off unfounded fanboy rhetoric, get yourself an educated on the subject (you obviously need it), since I have better things to do than waste time with biased and unintelligent idiots such as yourself. But, I'll humour you some more...

You're still making something out of nothing as usual. You have failed to show that Silicon Knight's actions go beyond Silcion Knight. Until you can do so, you have NO arguement, other than your own fanboy beliefs (which as I've shown, is typical of you).

"failure to see the big picture is simply you been narrow-visioned"

No, seeing a picture which isn't there is being stupid.

"this will be the last time i reply to your garbage said words [not to mention the stupid habit of double posting]....if you work for MS..."

Good riddance I say, but I doubt it will be your last. As for working for MS, ah yes, the simple minded way of convincing yourself that you could ignore a challenge to your viewpoint. Nice one, weak minded but effective. The next is my favorite however...

"dont create illusionary supporters [Gamerfeed-Player97 crap...all the same person],i can pick hundreds of names and start supporting myself..."

Yep, another method of convincing yourself that you could dismiss any challenge against your own distorted viewpoint. Like conspiracy theories (such as MS being behind this action against Epic) it's a typical method employed by weak individuals who use it to protect their egos. An ego protection mechanism.

But don't stop there The_Regulator, why not add Mister Common Sence, Lurker, Shatterdome and other 360 supporters to that list. That's right, 360 fans, 360 fanboys, multi-console gaming fans, anyone who's disagreed with you and supported others against you, we're all actually one person on QJ (keep telling yourself that and you'll feel better).

So keep posting The_Regulator, you've already revealed some back tracking in your post, denial, and ego protection methods. I'm keen to see what you'll do next. :)

# Careful 'Xbox is the best' — Guest 2007-07-20 10:40

You've supported my post, therefore according to The_Regulator, we are actually the same person.

Anyone else, other than me, who wants to back me up, but is not me? ;)

# Yep, I'll back you up GamerZ — Guest 2007-07-20 10:44

You're the man!

# Yeah, me too GamerZ — Guest 2007-07-20 10:49

I agree with all you said 100% without question.

# Lol! ^^^ Apologies to Player97 and Gamerfeed — Guest 2007-07-20 10:52

I think it's obvious that the above two posts were from me. Just a bit of fun.

# eh — Guest 2007-07-20 11:42

epic cost microsoft a ton of money on GoW.

i can understand SK arguement,but the same thing could be said about nintendo,sony,o r microsoft's toolkits for thier systems.

what games do SK make anyways?

only game i know about was the remake of metal gear solid on the gamecube

# Agreed with gamerz — Guest 2007-07-20 13:45

MS could be behind this, and they could not, nobody knows. The_Regulator, you word your posts like you know MS is behind it for a fact, which is just stupid.

You're just a typical fanboy who thinks he knows what he's talking about, but it's plainly obvious to any intelligent person you haven't got a clue.

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Too Human update: Silicon Knights sues Epic Games

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