Little worried.....

I'd be a little concerned to be listed alongside a bunch of stuff that will probably never go anywhere....

agreed.

yea, I'll believe it when I see it. weather or not it will be acurate is another point of interest. it may just turn out like the Wii controller, good idea, but f*** all accuracy.

...

Natal better not have any sort of failure rate over 10%. It's hell of a great invention but not all gamers want full body controlled games. Seriously though what can you do with Natal? How do the in game characters walk forward and backwards? It sounds like you need a treadmill. How does the in-game camera follow the characters? How do you shoot something without triggers? Seriously all the videos I've seen so far is that the people are stationary. The price estimate plus the limited known gaming capabilities it's bound to fail. Of course unless you want to touch Milo.

Forgot to put...

So many independent Devs are going to make interactive porn with Natal I swear. I'd say the Japanese are going to be the first to do this.

Wow people

i don't understand how people want this to fail. I bet if this was a Sony product and microsoft was the one making "the sphere" then everyone would be beashing microsoft for making a control that can be compared to the wiimote in what it can do. And people would be all cheering for joy over how sony has come up with a break through technolog that doesnt even require a control. people here need to think harder in deciding if they are hating on the product or in the company. because most people here will just look at all the cons rather than all the pros.

wow

Did popular mecanics said the same in 2003 for the eye toy by sony ... guess not.

Your wrong

Its not that we want it to fail, but its true how are we going to walk without remote. I mean it would look stupid if we needed the remote and then using the cam. I had 3 xbox 360's and they all got the red ring of death so i became a ps3 fan but still i dont want microsoft to fail.

OMG Microsoft breakthrough innovations

originally developed by 3DV Systems and there was plan for Zcam before microsoft bought it. http://www.3dvsystems.com/ I'm not saying ms didn't improve it though

?

Am I the only one that sees this as just an improved (greatly) eyetoy? It might be cool, but I don't understand all the hype. Microsoft marketing at it's best?

Mostly right..

The only thing you got wrong was the "greatly" improved part. Its not even greatly improved, its a hi-def webcam. Far from anything special, its just a current improvement on old technology.

!

The last time I checked, the EyeToy doesn't have voice and face recognition, nor can it scan and recognize objects.

I don't want this to fail...

I'm just saying that this business game that MS is playing is very risky and have many questions left unanswered. I hate to sound like I do want this to fail but, Natal, as of right now, seriously feels incomplete from all the videos that they have.

^

The voice part is all software, even the ds can do voice recognition. As for face recognition, that's where the "greatly" comes into place, and recognizing objects, playstation eye already does that. Look, I'm not bashing it, I just don't understand all this attention, it's not all that new.

To Hideo...

Every digital camera on the market today has face recognition, and any webcam could have a software update and then they would also have face recognition, this includes the eye toy. The PS3 eye toy does have voice recognition, its called a mic. Also, if you watched the "eyepet" preview from E3, you would see that the current software/generation of the eye toy already does, in fact, both scan and recognize objects. I dont really care about this thing either way, but dont try and play it up as some ground breaking thing. Its a modern version of existing technology. Its nothing special in any way.

@ ptspyder

Hey, I have no real interest in any of these either, but I don't think you understand what voice recognition is. It's not just a mic, it's knowing and understanding the words and knowing who is saying it. It's not recognizing everybody with one voice, it's recognizing them as different individuals.

!

Balance board/mat is what they need if they want players to walk in game. I don't care if this fails or not, the one good thing I can see coming out of it failing will be the price drop. I wouldn't mind having it, I just know I don't need it. Also, Versus, I agree with your post completely.

Agree with you

I believe when quizzed about this topic Don Mattric said something to the effect of Natal has nothing to do with our purchase of Zcam or our purchase of 3DV systems. Which leads me to either one of two conclusions: 1. Bull*****, they've stripped Zcam down and done their own version of it. 2. M$ are covering their 4sses for patent infringment, if you follow the news MS are constantly being sued by idiots that took out patents for stuff they never actually got to market and then successfully sued microsoft for patent infringment. Not saying M$ haven't blatantly done patent infringement but some cases I've heard like rumble technology in a video game controller I mean come on, that's been kicking around since the N64. The most legit patent infrigement case I've heard about was the one with an Australian that basically came up with a software piracy protection system, went to M$ said hey guys will you buy this off me. They saw the code etc then basically said nah not interested. Then 5 or 6 years later Windows XP comes out featuring the very technology, he sued their (M$'s) 4sses and got millions, sits on a beach with a laptop in a van dreaming up ideas for what he could do next now. In a way as someone who regularly thinks outside the box I wish I had patented some ideas I had, like the PVR (I had that idea when I was a kid but disks were way too small back then).

Pretty sure...

That being able to recognize specific people would be much harder than recognizing what the words are. Heck, I think it might actually be easier. Plus, that's all software, as is face recognition. The Natal camera itself is a high-def webcam. The software behind it is the only "improved" part.

Ooops

"would not" should have been there. And I'd like to say that I've never read anything on face/voice recognition of that form.

It's not an eye toy

It's like a stereoscopic webcam with an added motion sensor. I'll break that down for you, stereoscopic meaning it has two (2) camera lenses. The motion sensor you would be familiar with in most office buildings security systems you know those white boxes that sit in the corner of the room ceilings and have an indicator light on them; green when everything is still, amber when it detects a possible movement, and red when it definitely detects movement. Calling this thing an eye toy is like calling a digital SLR a film SLR, similar technology yes but so not the same thing. And to someone elses comment yes all just existing technologies, but it's the first one to combine them all into one device and utilize them all simultaneously for a new human machine interface. Believe me if this thing works and that's a big IF, it's going to be incredible and Popular Mechanics are simply recognising that. Oh yeah and all the hubub about voice commands yeah could be run through software but with all the voice command chips included in mobile phones these days would be making that very cheap to do freeing up the 360 processor to concentrate on taking the inputs from those other three sources (left camera, right camera + motion sensor) for game control.

Yeah maybe...

The interactive porn thing is interesting but it'll have to be done on PC I doubt M$ are ever going to allow anything that racey onto the 360. Which is a bit depressing, porn is still regarded as a satan on games consoles because there's still the view that games are for kids.

...

Do you guys not know how to walk in place, without moving ? That would let natal know you want to walk...jog on the spot, you are jogging...etc. You pull triggers by squeezing your finger, you press down on the gas pedal by making the motion with your foot....etc... I am also glad it is MS making it, as that will lead to possible official support for the PC (ie. interactive porn games) and if not, an easier time hacking out drivers. Also, for basic windows browsing and such I wouldn't mind just moving my finger to navigate, rather than use a mouse.... It has nice possibilities, it will be a question of how well it is implemented and the price....

uhhmmm

Voice and Facial/Object recognition is all software based. The PSEye actually has very good voice recognition capabilities as it has a 4 mic array (for that exact reason) Facial/object recognition just needs a picture, or video from any source. Natal is Just a camera possibly better or worse than the PSEye, an IR Camera (the big difference between the two) and a microphone. The big thing is the software behind it and the implementation. Sony could have already added the ability to navigate the xmb with motion....but they are lazy and have not made the software to do it.

avatar....

Where did you pull those "facts" from ? I think you have been listening to people on forums a little too much... From engadet and their HANDS ON with the device.... "After our meeting, we actually had a chance to speak with another source who was able to show us the software guts behind the Natal, so that we could understand the method by which tracking is done. The box uses two sensors for input: a video camera, and an infrared camera ." They use a regular webcam (just like PSEye) to capture movement...not a "motion detector" and the IR camera is for depth..... Get your facts straight before coming in all high and mighty.... http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/03/project-natal-video-hands-on-impressions-and-further-details/

...

and I was trying to say that Sony could have been doing something very similar to Natal long ago, but they didn't think to develop software for it. The PSEye has been basically useless until the announcement of eyepet and the sphere. So far the games using the eyetoy have been remarkably crappy. Lucky they are only a couple bucks. If Sony had their ***** together we could be voice and motion navigating the xmb with just an eyetoy....but they just wanted to push the hardware as usual, not the software to back it up.

To Versus

Look around QJ a bit more, you'll see it's overwhelmingly filled with MS haters/Sony lovers. That's the reason for the Natal hate. Pretty much if MS does it, no matter what it is, nerds on QJ will hate on it. Check other sites, hype and anticipation for Natal are pretty big It looks pretty cool to me, and it def has promise, but I don't think it'll be good enough to replace controllers.

Thank you

I was asking what the big difference was. IR Camera, that's cool

agreed

am also concerned how much microsoft paid for this and why choose such event?

@ Shatterdome

Well ok then sorry... When it first came out I was told in a press release to boutique stores that it featured two cameras _and_ a motion sensor, maybe they meant a motion sensor via two cameras... But does the PS3 eyetoy feature an infrared camera for depth perception? I didn't think so. So the whole not an eyetoy thing is still true and valid. Sorry for being all high and mighty especially since I was wrong.

One important ommission...Built-in image processor.

The problem with the PSEye/EyeToy/Webcams etc for motion control is that video based motion control requires a lot of processing power, and that power comes from the PS2/PS3/PC. ALL of the image processing and voice recognition for EyeToy and now PSEye for example, is being done by software running on the console's CPU. Yes, Cell is very powerful, but that's still taking power (and memory) away from the games. I think I read somewhere that the head tracking software on the PS3 requires 5-10% CPU time (I assume that depends on issues like resolution and framerate, 30/60 fps), which may not sound like much, but it's a significant amount in gaming terms. Hence whilst I'm excited to see HT in GT5, will it come at a cost to graphical detail?, the number of cars?, damage?, will it be limited to certain gaming modes/tracks? etc. I'm sure something will have to give when head tracking is used. With Natal however, the final product will have a custom built-in processor (and local memory), specifically designed for processing the images and audio, taking the load off the 360's CPU, and therefore taking nothing away from 360 games. We can see the situation with the current Natal prototype, which doesn't have the custom processor, but instead uses a PC (or 360?) for the image/audio processing. So when scanning the whole body (identifying and tracking up to 48 points) as in the ball demo, you can see that the processor isn't quite fast enough, resulting in lag, and that's just for ONE person, whereas Natal is suppose to handle up to 4 people. But in the Burnout demo, where only the hands and feet are being tracked, very little (if any) lag was noticed at all by those playing the game, because with less for the processor to do, it was able to keep up with the action. Once the custom processor is done, the performance should be significantly improved. So although it's easily overlooked, the built-in image processor is the other big difference between Natal and PSEye.