Yes, BIA is an awsome series of WWII games. I always liked it better then CoD. (I still like CoD too though)



Shouldn't this also be in the 360 news rather then just the ps3 news?

To be fair BIA is quite different, in a similar way that Full Spectrum Warrior is different. BIA encourages strategy and thinking. CHarging in will get you killed dead quick like.

Ok, I really don't like denial.

I'm not saying that it won't look as good on X360 as it does, but there are things that say STRAIGHT in your face that these come form PS3:

1.Subsurface scattering - not possible, or at least not shown yet on X360.

2. High polygonal models - not possible on X360 - or rather, it is possible, but won't be seen on X360.



All X360 can do is low poly model with some great mapping and HDR (GeoW for example) .

You're doing a great job by quoting me and adding random hate comment to them, doing so you make at least some part of your post look smart.



I guess that you want me to explain what all these effects are, right?

I will, because I'm a good man:

1. Subsurface scattering- to apply it you first need multi layered model, it's something that you don't see in games today, and it wasn't shown in X360 games up till today.

What does it do? It produces reflection from scattering from a layer that is below the main surface.



2. This one is pretty easy, that's how you call models that are built out of many polygons, personally I think that high polygonal model is built out of at least 1 mln polygons, but this term is usually used to describe models that are built out of over 100k polygons - it wasn't shown in any X360 game, you can see such models in MGS4, Lair, Heavenly Sword, Killzone 2, TEKKEN Next, Genji 2, Ni-OH - they look amazing and have details not seen in low poly models like individual hair for example.



3. Now about GeoW, you probaly already know, that GeoW uses models built out of around 10k polygons - but it looks amazing, doesn't it? That's because of mapping, and because it uses HDR lighting.

Mappiing is a technique that allows low-polygonal models to look almost as good as high polygonal models.

To use mapping graphic has to create high-polygonal model, take a map of it and apply it to low polygonal model.

So why use high-polygonal models, if it looks nearly the same? Because high-polygonal models allow for other physique and lighting techniques.



HDR it's greatly described at Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_dynamic_range_imaging



There are lots of mapping techniques, from bump-mapping to normal mapping, it's too much information for me to write in here.



Doesn't Fight Night 3 look great? Of course it does, but check out fighters hair - that's an easy way to reckognize low polygonal model from high polygonal models.

You do know some stuff. But your being a complete total ass fanboy. Firstly you have explained what these technologys are. But you have just said they are not on the 360, you havnt said why they are on the ps3 but not the 360. Secondly over 100k polygons....pgr3 anyone? some cars had 150k polygons. What you are doing is looking at current games and pointing out that they are not using certain technologys. But the ps3 won't be using these either at first. Why? because its not possible on a 1st wave of nextgen titles, due to costs and the fact that devs are still getting used to the dev kits. Ive looked at the specs of the 360 and the ps3. And i can tell you this, both will be capable of SSS and high poly models. You just won't see them until later on in thier life cycles. Now quite being a fanboy.

KnowLedgeR don't be ****. There is a difference between knowledge and arrogance. Coming onto a public board stating technical jargon gets confusing for people. Not everyones life is about games some are casual gamers who have no idea what you are talking about, and to call them "n00bs" is just as immature as someone ridiculing you for having more knowledge than they do. Ignorance is nothing to scorn, its willful ignorance, or stupidity, that should be. No need to get offended because someone doesn't know as much as you about a certain subject, and no need to offend someone because you do.

"MGS4, Lair, Heavenly Sword, Killzone 2, TEKKEN Next, Genji 2, Ni-OH - they look amazing and have details not seen in low poly models like individual hair for example."



I cant believe I missed that out of your post. Ok where to start where to start. Large parts of the mgs4 trailer where low poly and used the very same technologies you where saying where crap on the 360. Secondly all of the other games you just mentioned are call pre rendered cg custscenes. So of course they are high poly. You won't see a poly count like killzone 2 until late on in both the 360 and ps3s life cycles, I mean that video was insane.

next time im gonna read the whole post fully lol. Ok you say the ps3 will have 1 million polygons per character? Now I dont mean to be a killjoy to your hopes and dreams, but you do relize that a scene in say project gotham racing 3 has just over a million polygons, including cars, backgrounds etc. And obviosly its a first gen games so in later ones polycount will increase (although polycount really doesnt matter anymore, it hows you make your game look good without flooding it with polygons) so what your hoping for is that the ps3 will render as many polygons in a whole scene in pg3 in 1 character model?

Fight Night 3 models are low polygonal, they look great, because they use normal mapping, as I said it's really easy to notice it by the look of hair, or by the look of face, but you would have to watch it in motion.



Subsurface scattering with multiple shader passes? Nope.

Maybe it's something that I don't know about, but to get subsurface scattering you first need a subsurface to base it on.

Though you wrote "simulate the effect" - that's more like it, but it's not the same thing.



Now about MGS4, Lair, Heavenly Sword, Killzone 2, TEKKEN Next, Genji 2, Ni-OH, I thought that I mentioned that Killzone is most probably pre-rendered, same thing with TEKKEN.

But on PlayStation Meeting (I don't know whether it is possible to get trailers from it) they showed Ni-OH trailer, in real time, what about it? Character's faces sported over 1 mln polygons, and it was all shown, and it wasn't just a simple face demo, it was a whole scene with couple characters and enviroments, of cource they had SSS running, materials simulation it was all described greatly, I don't remember everything, but it reached Killzone 2 level of details easily.



Genji2 was also present at that presentation, also in real-time and they also described all the techniques used in it.



Lair - 100-170k polygons per dragon with hundreds of them on screen, subsurfaces multitexturing, HDR - need I say more?



Heavenly Sword, all in real time, thousands of units on screen, normal mapping, they used something in exchange with HDR tough.



Now what's the point? All of this games looked equally as impressive as Killzone and TEKKEN trailers.

They might just be tech-demos tough, but they showed that it's possible to reach this level of details on PS3.



Why X360 won't sport high polygonal models and SSS?

Let's start with shading performance, unified shaders are great when it comes to efficiency (you can use most of the power all the time), but they are much weaker than individual pipelines, so losing all the operations would make games look worse than they do with mapping and HDR.

X360 uses GDDR3 memory, and there's only 512 MB of it, the most important thing is that both CPU and GPU share the same memory, it isn't a good resolution when it comes to bandwidth - so games would be choppy.



But PS3 also has 512 MB memory right? Yeah, only that it 2 memory units, one for GPU and one for CPU - so there are no bottlenecks, and the most important thing is that Cell has XDR memory - it's fast enough to allow for alot of data flowing, and that is needed when using SSS or high polygonal models.



Also CPU cores share only 1 MB of L2 cache - it's not enough to store the needed data.



So: X360 won't sport this effects because it just isn't powerful and fast enough. It wouldn't be smart for developers to use memory for high polygonal models and shader ops for effects like SSS.



BTW, you might say that I'm a fanboy, because I go against X360, but it's not like that. I just believe official specifications, benchmarks and the look of games more than internet speculation.