Breaking open the Xbox 360 brick issue |
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Although Microsoft has dished out US$ 1.2 billion to repair Xbox 360 units, they refuse to reveal what actually causes the hardware failure that crashes the console. This prompted the folks at Nikkei Electronics, wanting to get to the bottom of things, to start their own investigation.Their experiment consisted of two consoles: one bought at the end of 2005 and another that experienced a hardware failure and was repaired last May. The experiment focused on hardware malfunctions caused by heat for two reasons: the Xbox 360 is prone to overheat and that it makes a snapping noise consistent with hardware damage caused by overheating when it breaks down.
Cracking open the console that hasn't been repaired, they found that the heat sink for the graphics LSI is too small for its role. They surmise that proper design was compromised to make room for the DVD drive. The resulting consequence is that the LSI's temperature goes way up real fast. The cooling fan, according to their expert, is not big enough in relation to the size of the chassis.
The experiment was done in a cool and clean environment, meaning no dust and no extra heat, but the LSI still rose to 70 degrees Celsius. They believe that in worse conditions it could go up to 100 degrees. They conclude that the LSI may very well be what is causing the hardware failure.
When they opened up the second Xbox, the one repaired last May, they found no difference whatsoever in the design of the heat sink and cooling fan.
Via Tech On
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Comments [refresh]
Yikes!
did they open the Elite to see if it was fixed in that?
So what, are they saying that my 360 IS going to fuc.k up soon?
Well I'm getting it next week, but I don't know if I should if it's definitely gonna ***** itself :(.
Or is it just caused by people who play it for hours on end, allowing it to have enough time to overheat or could it just overheat at any time?
if u get a laptop fan your xbox will last very long my xbox 360 still hasent broke for more than 1 1/2 year
Srry for the double post.
But I just watched this video on how to fix the 360 with the red ring. There are reports of it actually working too.
awesome vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIARuzFOExc&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2E1pstart%2Ecom%2Fred%2Dring%2Dof%2Ddeath%2Dfix%2F
hummm ever since I've started seeing these ring of death posts I've wondered when mine would suddenly give out. Having 1 launch console and 1 06' console I knew it was only a matter of time... well nope Im happy to say that my launch console has not given me one problem since I bought it. And summer here gets really hot but the 360 keeps on going. So maybe there is more to this than us hardware techies think we know. Only MS knows but I think that since not each console is placed the same in every home something is causing it to overheat to quickly I place mine standing and the brick up behind my TV free to suck in all that TV heat and still it goes on. I guess I'll have to wait a bit longer
all that to avoid making it bigger than the ps3 hahahahaha come on MS you can do better than that
don't use intercoolers and plug the power cable into an outlet not a surge protector and your 360 should be fine
I have heard people say not to use the intercoolers but i dont know why? They only draw their power off of one of the 3 power wires in the power cord going to the xbox, and only then my intercooler only drew 400 milliamps (less than half an amp) @12v so its not a huge strain on the powerpack. It seemed put together fairly well. Whats the issue?
the intercoolers dont fit properly and cause the 360 to become unplugged in the back. thats the reason why people say dont use an intercooler. my friend had a 360 and an IC, and after a while it started acting up like it was gonna break. So i told him to take the intercooler off and he said its been problem free ever since.
dont use intercoolers.
So what they're saying is this: A 360, built before the bigger heatsinks were being installed, was tested alongside another 360, repaired before the before the bigger heatsinks were installed...and these geniuses found that they were the same heatsink.
Incredible journalistic investigating, these guys....
Maybe (and I'm just going out on a limb here) they should take a 360 sent back and repaired *AFTER* MS made the announcement that they were now using bigger heatsinks. They might be different, they might not be, but at least those two test samples are *supposed* to be different.
Why wouldnt you use a surge protector? You're asking your 360 to get fried first lightning storm.
This is common knowledge.
The GPU heatsink is too small. The 360's cooling isn't defective, but inadequate for some conditions. That's why some people have problems with several 360s, and some people have none.
It's all in how the consoles are treated, and the conditions in which they are used, like temperatures and humidity.
I got my 360's GPU running at a mere 50 degrees C if I turn the fan speed on high, and the CPU at only 40 degrees with my cooling upgrades. I think my 360 will last forever. I used the XCM fan upgrade kit and switched to arctic silver thermal paste for the heatsinks. The upgrade took about an hour.
The XCM fan upgrade kit costs about $60 and can be bought from www.xbox-modchips.com. The Arctic Silver 5 paste, and Arcticlean thermal material remover (to remove the old paste) can be bought from www.newegg.com for about $20.
There is a good tutorial to disassemble the 360 at: http://www.informit.com/articles/article.asp?p=430626&seqNum=2 replace plus signs with equals. Remember to use care removing the heatsink X clamps and don't overtighten the torx screws! There is another tutorial to remove the old paste and apply the new at http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=467045 again replace plus with equals.
Of course this will void the warranty, and may make it noisier.
If you want to make your 360 last without opening it up and voiding the warranty there are still things you can do.
1. Don't use it standing up. This partially blocks a major intake vent. It's supposed to work standing up, but not really.
2. It's best used out in the open. If you must put your 360 in an entertainment center, I would recommend getting a electronics cooling fan from Radio Shack, cutting a circular hole in the back, and installing it to exhaust air out the back. Leave the door open while playing.
3. Don't put your 360 near any other hot electronics like cable boxes or receivers. I would put the power brick away from it a few feet.
4. Don't move your 360 with a disc inside like a moron! Always take the disc out before you turn it off just to be sure.
5. Intercoolers are crap, I wouldn't use one.
6. I don't know if a surge suppressor could cause a failure or not, but wouldn't chance it.
Maybe Microsoft will hire me to improve the XBOX's problems or design the next one? Maybe?
http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000687.htm
"The majority of today's desktop processors should not exceed temperatures of 95°C and most will run between 70-90°C."
??
I used to repair computers for a living. One customer came in complaining that his cpu was running at 60 degrees and we burst out laughing. 70 - 100 is roughly average, its not surprising to see why the console was released with those figures.
By rights anyone who has put together a few computers can be classed as an "expert" but no "expert" would sit there and tell you that 70 degrees was excessive.
Check your sources
Reasoning with Xbots fanboys is like reasoning with a jackass. All these guys are doing is explaining is whats causing the 360 to fail. Their not bashing the system, just pointing out a design flaw which wether you xbots fanboy like it or not has been acknowledged by MS.
"The GPU heatsink is too small. The 360's cooling isn't defective, but inadequate for some conditions. That's why some people have problems with several 360s, and some people have none."
They also did not say that the overheating happens in all type of conditions, but as Mr.Sensible has also pointed out is inadequate.
As for lmxloco's comments I'm sure they they did not test the new ones with bigger heatsinks because everyone with a brain and common sense know that this test was done as you sdaid before the 3 year warranty announcement. Im sure if these guys were psychic and knew in advacnce that MS will be installing biggers heatsinks they would have done and experiment "B" involving 360's with bigger heatsinks. Also you guys that say that you've had your 360 since launch and everything is a-okay then good for you. The fail rate is 33% not 100%. Again all the expereiments purpose was to explain whats going on inside the 360 thats causing a majority of 360's to brick. They did not rape your mom then give her cancer so relax.
Kind of an idiot, aren't you?
1st - The article was written yesterday, August 1st. It doesn't take 5 months to do this simple test, which tells me that it was done recently, after MS made the announcement. Besides, if it was done before MS made the announcement, then these guys are just idiots...there is zero reason to test two 360's that are identical. My guess is that they simply used what they had, which was an original box, and a repaired box from May.
2nd - Obviously they didn't test the new ones with bigger heatsinks because *gasp* they were the same size. IF they had tested the units with bigger heatsinks, my guess is they would have found that *gasp* one is bigger.
3rd - While it's obvious to me, and anyone else with a brain (not you) that this test was done RECENTLY, all I was pointing out is that they should have used an xbox repaired after the new heatsinks were being installed. They didn't. All this test shows is that MS might/might not have started using new heatsinks sometime after May...which is stated right there in the article.
My whole point is that their test should've used a more recent repair subject...that's all.
Instead, you have to prove to everyone that you are indeed quite the moron by calling me out.
Nice job, numbnuts.
you don't need lightning to fry up the 360. It can (and has experience) in doing that by itself.
It seems to fit well enough. It has little plastic tabs that connect to the xbox and keep it stable onto the back. Unless your carring it around by the intercooler i dont see how it can come off
i have mine plugged on my surge ever since i bought it and have had no problems.. yet another rumor that surges fry 360's
I have a stock launch console and it hasn't had any problems... you dont need a laptop fan you just need luck
Why cant you fix this problem once and for all. Like any 360 that comes in the repair shop be fixed add a better heatsink thats the same size if you cant fit a bigger one. Or can they can make bigger cases on the new 07/08 models
Gaffmiester, Microsoft said that they are fixing the issue, but it will take a while for those new 360s to hit store shelves. Also there's gonna be a price drop, so u should wait1-2 months b/f getting one. It's just a suggestion on my part
"you don't need lightning to fry up the 360. It can (and has experience) in doing that by itself."
Nice!!!
Again, The experiment purpose was to point out whats causing the 360 to be defective.
I am sure if these guys had the opportunity to test a fixed 360 with the "bigger" heatsink they would have done so.
All they were saying was the current heatsink and fan being used for the 360 is inadequate and even though Microsoft now knows that the issue is inadequate cooling it was never addressed with the "repaired" 360 as they still contained the same size size heatsink (actually with having the same size heatsink tells me that MS is either in denial that the cooling is not an issue or they just did not know).
This proves my comment that reasoning with an xbot 360 fanboy is like reasoning with a jackass. I crown you KING JACKASS!!!!
xbox 360 is like a sports car that is missing half of its radiator and can't run as long as the PS3 or the wii, can you enjoy driving your Xbot 3Sh*tty when it cant go 4 (hours) miles without causing your engine to melt to a lump of slag? you'll have to be always keeping in mind that you cant "push" your "car" for extra fun and have to cut your playtime short for an hour while that blast furnace you call a system reaches someware below 1000 degrees. and what person will want to waste their time with their "car" at the shop being repaired over and over then getting a diffirent cooler then drive it in Alaska so it dont overheat again. what will happen to it with the constant heat for three years "over the safety limit" for the circuts, even if it didint brakedown even once? give it a thought stupid xbox fans when your stupid warranty expires and you just went through your 60th console AGAIN
wow thats the best thing ive seen here in awhile! bahahahahaha :)
I dont believe that all the problems are caused by heat. My launch xbox 360 just died this week showing the three red rings. I have used the intercooler and fan stand since I got the xbox and its been fine. My xbox didn't overheat it just started freezing, then consistent red rings. Im not worried though, Thankyou microsoft for making it easy to get a new one. Ill be up and playing again in a few weeks, with no charge to me.
Does it make a difference if you have the unit standing up vertically, or horizontally?
They should've done the tests
a) comparing old heatsink vs. new heatsink and
b) both vertically AND horizontally....
Lets See...
1. Overheating form a small heatsink and poor airflow from the shape of the console
2. If not option (1) then its poor manufacturing
3. If not option (2) then its a design flaw that shows up at random with option (1) or (2) as the starting cause or the problem is so small on the motherboard that a redesign from the ground up is the only way to solve it
4. Its a pice of sh*t (which means "all" of the above)
And what about....
(a) The thing scratches discs
(b) Microsoft is not honetst with the number of defective units that were shipped (and STILL being shipped)
(c) Will they solve EVERY defective 360 issue with a fu*king BIGGER heatsink!?
(d) By the way, did you know its not healthy for your game disks to get THAT hot for such a short time playing?? they wont last long which results in you buying MORE of the same thing!
If "you" the gamer find two or more above to be a reasonable answer to the problem then your wise and AWARE of whats going on If you are aware and still getting your sixth console sent to you then your a FU*KING FOOL.
Try not using the Intercooler, when you get your 360 back. Some people have accused the Intercooler of damaging their 360, and said it worked perfectly when they disconnected it.
I ordered a refurbished 360 for a buddy from a "reputable power seller" on ebay. I plugged it in, and got the red rings of death, which seemed odd for a shrink wrapped refurbished unit. I also noted that Microsoft's web site said that the power "brick" should light up green even with the red rings, but I didn't even hear fans on anything, and the light was still in orange "standby" mode even with the red rings.
I tested the unit with my own 360 power supply, and it worked fine. The keys to diagnosing this appeared to be that the PS light didn't turn green when the red rings were on, and when I tried to retrieve the secondary error codes, my result was effectively "0000". I have seen a lot of posts regarding overheat of the revision zero and revision one PS's, and extreme measures to solve intermittent problems such as stringing them in midair to improve cooling, but am posting this to say to folks "red rings of death CAN be caused solely by a bad power supply". If you have a friend who has a working 360, it might be prudent to test your 360 with a borrowed power supply before assuming the actual console is fried.