Bushing discovers exploit that allows ISOs to run on unmodified Wiis, writes Nintendo |
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Up on Bushing's blog, we learn that the Team Twiizer's member has discovered a security issue that, when properly exploited, could allow pirated games to be run on unmodified Nintendo Wiis.
Of course, this exploit may have been used as a stepping stone to creating an ISO loader for Nintendo's next generation console, but as Bushing would have none of that, he plans on discussing the issue with Nintendo.
But as of press time, Bushing has not been able to establish contact with any of Nintendo's engineering and software department. Apparently, three messages via electronic mail have been sent, and none were responded to by the company.
The post on Bushing's blog has exposed much of the security flaw, though the author himself states that he had taken measures to contact the company as demanded by the Full Disclosure Policy. More updates as we get them.
Related Links:
- Forum Discussion: Bushing finds ISO hack
- Twilight Hack v0.1beta1 released: Wii Menu Update v3.3 now compatible
- The Zelda exploit: Unsigned code running on Wii without modchip
- Wii gets a Hello World, too: homebrew team hacks the Wii via Zelda
Via Bushing's Blog
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Comments [refresh]
There has been a LOT of discussion about this over plenty of homebrew forums.
From what I've gathered Bushing has 5 working days to receive a response from Nintendo, or he is allowed to disclose it to the general public...if he chooses.
But knowing a person like Bushing, even if the 5 days pass, we probably still won't see it on HackMii.
I'd love to watch the Wii pirate community turn against the guys that made homebrew possible in the first place just because they have a moral backbone.
I really don't care about the ISO playback. I really would like a DVD playback (in the Wii Menu).
I spend a lot of my time on my PSP without playing ISO's just making use of other aspects of the exploits. Homebrew and theming are just cool to have around. DVD playback is still not illegal and worth the effords. Go bushing..... And if bushing found it already there are always people to go find it theirselfs...
patch it with a firmware update.
well, the guys doing the right thing
hes actually doing a good thing for us
less pirating means better games
and less pirating means less need to patch the console to prevent homebrew
although the worst thing nintendo could do is block online, which no-one i know uses anyway.
it would be great just to say, "you know what ***** yas i tried saving ya company millions ya arrogant bastards ..poof, and the company falls lol"
do you have proof that not pirating games produces better games? Really now? I'm pretty sure the PSP as pirated and as hacked as that is..is getting a CONSIDERABLE amount of games. Crisis Core and God of War: Chains of Olympus.
Oh wait lets not forget the PS2 where you could use the PS2's hard drive to back up your ISO games. YET THE PS2 IS STILL RUNNING! It's getting Persona 4 which sold out against the wii fit not too long ago http://kotaku.com/5026565/persona-4-takes-japanese-software-competitors-to-school
Honestly bushing. I say do it. Nintendo is a Peripheral whore making their consumers buy needless crap after pieces of crap. Honestly a new peripheral to enhance the wii mote functions? Why not of done that in the first place. Also teasing your ever so loyal fans with EarthBound is just plain fuggin sick. You bring Mother 3 to JPN but not to USA. Oh and wait in brawl you not only take out the EB demo. But you actually include the final boss and level of mother 3? Oh that's real nice with spoilers on top. Hell you even put EB or Mother in the Gaming Bestiary. Just wtf.
Either way i say stick it to them. It'll increase hardware sales of the system regardless. So there really isn't anything going to hurt nintendo.
Bushing could be sued or just be sent a Cease and Desist letter. So i guess this is for the pre-emptive strike. >_>;
"do you have proof that not pirating games produces better games?"
Good point, but...
"Nintendo is a Peripheral whore making their consumers buy needless crap after pieces of crap"
Do you have proof that Nintendo is MAKING consumers do anything? Last time I checked, no gun was to my head.
"Why not of done that in the first place."
Why not have made hybrid cars in the first place? We can't snap our fingers and make things the best they possibly can from the beginning. Also, having done as such would have made the Wii more expensive.
I agree freeplay, hopefully this can lead to Nintendo not being as anti-homebrew as Sony
I think what Bushing is trying to do is cover his bottom from being sued.
How does a $10 million lawsuit sound when you're ((Most likely)) a middle class citizen?
If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.
But I really don't blame him.
All though, I would just release it then expect A LOT of donations. =3
I already told them about the updated homebrew for the wii
muahahahahah
"Nintendo is a Peripheral whore making their consumers buy needless crap after pieces of crap"
Do you have proof that Nintendo is MAKING consumers do anything? Last time I checked, no gun was to my head."
As a matter of fact i do. In order to play Super Metroid i'd need a classic controller wouldn't I? No i can't use just a plain ol' gamecube controller. If i spent my points on it already and booted it up. I'm greeted with a prompt that says "This game uses the classic controller" So i just bought a game where i am now going to have to buy a classic controller. And let's not forget the NEED for a nunchuck for the games WHICH you have to buy seperately. Which comes out way more than a PS3 or 360 remote. Alot of games require that Nunchuck. If you don't have it and you really want that game? You're forking up an extra for the nunchuck and the for the game.
Yes they do make you buy and heck even package peripheral's into their games. Mario Kart packages the steering wheel. The only exception i have is for WiiPlay where you actually get a useful remote. Guitar Hero and Rock Band excluded.
"Why not have made hybrid cars in the first place? We can't snap our fingers and make things the best they possibly can from the beginning. Also, having done as such would have made the Wii more expensive. "
It's expensive enough as it is. You want 4 way play? Buying 3 extra remotes = 0. Can't forget those nunchucks now can you? Another + so far. Lets bunch that up with the Wii 0 + 0 = 0. Pretty much an Xbox 360 60GB with an extra controller or game...or just a PS3 40GB...
120+60 + 180
250 + 180 + 430
mm well i can tell that your *****ing idiot by your name alone
anyway mm lets think about this logically, no-one buying games make it unprofitable for game devs to make games you retard, you do realise millions can go into making a game but ah well it means nothing to the companies ... it actually does
not only will there be less games but they would be less quality, why...?
because the devs dont have the money to spend on research for a game, research is a considerable part of game developing, you do realise, oh no your a 2-yr old who thinks games come out of santas arse
theres developing cost, wages, research, general bills aswell as licenses and production cost
less people buying games mean less money less money 99% means less quality
now technically you could bull***** and say that doesnt mean anything .. but it would be like me asking are you really alive or is this a *****ment of your imagination, IT DOESNT HAPPEN IN THE REAL WORLD
also im sry you mentioned one decent to good game for the psp their GOW, and thats because there isnt any other ones
also you are talking about extra hardware/software specific to the ps2
an sd card isnt specific to a wii an therefore there would be more people pirating
also dont give me this bull***** about i only wanna play legal backup games, because theirs a good chance it aint legal where ya live and no-one believes it
go back to pixie land you retard
turned into zeros because retard typed them
anyway i love this statement, it shows the ability of a retard standing up for himself
"where you actually get a useful remote. Guitar Hero and Rock Band excluded"
about we exclude the wiimote, or even better exclude the wii O_o
just because you are a tramp who cant afford the cheapest next-gen console (if youd call it one), doesnt mean ya have to yap like a 2yr old
i dont even think the homeless yap as much as you did right there
if you cant afford it dont buy it, save up, were not paying you to yap
also i dont know what knows numbers are meant to represent (are they your patient number????)
Sure love that retard yourself don't you as you obviously don't know the homeless in NYC can pretty much yap for hours. What you read right there was a good light read for 5 minutes. Hobos can talk 3 hours to their toes. Save it.
Try playing Guitar Hero/Rock Band on your controller. Would it be easier? They don't really explain the controls to ya in the game for using it with a 360 Remote or a PS3 remote. All i'm saying is it's a useful peripheral. Where as i heard from a few. it felt a lot harder trying to use the wheel then just using the wiimote on it's own. To each it's own though. Who knows maybe i'd find the wheel a lot better. ::shrugs::
The numbers are the prices of 3 remotes and 3 chucks plus the cost of a wii if you wanted the whole set.
Also i have all 3 systems + DS and PSP. Stuff it.
I could possibly mention the many good games on the PSP but you would most likely shut it down as "crap ware" and let me make a baseless accusation as you did me for being a retard/stupid that you are a Nintendo fan boy. That neither
A) Played these games.
B) Never will bother with them.
So let's start shall we?
FFT:WoL, Disgaea, Wipeout Pure/Pulse, Every Extended Extra, Lumines, Syphon Filter, Metal Gear Solid Portable Ops and Plus, Loco Roco, Patapon, FF:Crisis Core, Megaman X and Powered up, Bleach Heat the Soul Games, Naruto Games, Castlevania Dracula X Chronicles, Secret Agent Clank, Echochrome, Ape Escape, Tekken Dark Resseruction, Ultimate Ghosts n' Goblins, Beats, flOw, Gitaroo Man Lives!
I could go on but hey you get the picture. Those are the games I have and played and know how i feel about them.
1) You don't NEED a classic controller at all. I've played Super Metroid and other VC games with my GC Wavebird.
2) The Wii comes with a Nunchuk, I believe. If not, then it's only £15. Less than a 360 or PS3 controller.
3) If you want to play HD DVD on a 360, you need to spend insane amounts of money on an Elite or a new drive.
4) If you want 4 player on any console, you still have to fork out the cash.
5) Your argument is null.
The homebrew/hacking community has really gone downhill with their moral in the past few years. He shouldn't expect many donations, if any, at all.
lumines, serious, how you *****in joking me
anyway
MGS cant comment, might be decent but ive seen some gameplay...
tekken cant comment, is tekken gameplay good no but its decent
secret agent clank, lets just say it shows your age
ape escape read above 10 times
the rest got me laughing
anyway did you not see my comment, i said the wii is a last gen console, sure it boasted new controls, but the "new" controls have been used for years, look at the guns for PS etc
they may have made it slightly more accurate but then again its the main selling point of the console, so they can afford to make it a bit more sophisticated
i actually dont like the wii, its good for partys but thats it
i am however interested in its homebrew capabilities (wiimote could make homebrew more interesting not so much commercial games)
also that crap about the homeless, im sorry what a load of bull. was i only talking about NY no .. get out some more ..
finally i might reply when i can understand ya,
come-on are you sure your not retarded or a 2 yr old, im awful at grammar but .... O_o
also ive grown tired its obvious you are a retard..
using those arguments
I don't see why lumines has you laughing. I don't see how my "grammar" is incorrect. Either way it looks like you've run out of crap to say. So lets end it this way.
I agree developers lose out on money. Yeah that would go toward third parties like Ubi or something. Nintendo on the other hand. When you have games like Petz and what not you're gonna make tons of money from the younger market. So i'll agree with you there and that's it.
I've traveled to Baltimore. New Jersey and Conneticut quite often. So yeah i'm quite out and about. Either way your argument of a hobo rant is null and void.
Also i think you're a pedophile since you seem to like talk about 2yr olds so much. Have fun Pedo Bear.
1) You don't NEED a classic controller at all. I've played Super Metroid and other VC games with my GC Wavebird.
I don't own a Wavebird. Maybe it would work i'll try again. But thanks for the negative input.
2) The Wii comes with a Nunchuk, I believe. If not, then it's only £15. Less than a 360 or PS3 controller.
I honestly didn't know that. I thought that tear drop looking object was for smashing rats. Of course a Nunchuck comes with it >_>;.
3) If you want to play HD DVD on a 360, you need to spend insane amounts of money on an Elite or a new drive.
I don't know where you're getting HD DVD playbacks as i don't think i mentioned that anywhere. Either way i'm still using DVD's. I tried out Blu-Ray it was pretty interesting. But i'm not gonna make that switch yet.
4) If you want 4 player on any console, you still have to fork out the cash.
Another obvious statement. Let's check out the MSRP prices at gamestop.com
Wiimote - 39.00USD
Nunchuck - 19.00USD
Full wiimote = 59.98USD
Let's not forget this also uses AA batteries and that's a continuing process. Unless you rock the Nyko Charge station which im not gonna add.
PS3 Remote - 54.99USD
360 wireless - 49.99USD
Also batteries for this unless you get the recharge pack.
360 Wired - 39.99USD
Lets times this by 3 shall we?
Wii + Chuck by three times would come out tooo...179.94USD
PS3 by 3...164.97USD
360 wireless - 149.97USD
360 wired - 119.97USD
Note: all of this without any state taxes added at all
5) Your argument is null.
Guess it's still quite valid eh genius?
'i am however interested in its homebrew capabilities (wiimote could make homebrew more interesting not so much commercial games)"
Like a game where you simulate masturbation using the Wii remote? Why don't you just jerk off irl?
a game where you simulate masturbation using the wii remote....
haha
Mario Party 8 has a minigame where you have to to the exact motions, and whoever does it faster wins +D
I don't own Mario Party 8, but I played it once at a friend's house, I hate Mario Party 8, I would rather play the first one.
What the hell is your problem? Lumines is a good game, and if you can't see that then y're just ignorant. And I know you didn't just insult ratchet and clank! Are you that stuck up that you can't play a really good series because it might look a little childish? Get over yourself, I know you're trying to trash this other guy, but seriously, thats just not cool.
I can see your point, I suppose. Some things cost more on different consoles, you see. Why ***** about the price of the Wii remote etc when everything else on the other consoles costs a whole lot more?
As for your snide, childish, facetious comments made towards me and other QJ users who have discussed this with you, grow up. I don't need you to tell me how obvious my statements are; I made them because you ignored them in the first place, hence they weren't THAT obvious, otherwise you would have acknowledged what I was on about before I mentioned it. I don't need your primary school maths lessons either.
Think before you post, mate.
new low, how the hell is that any kind of argument
just shows how pointless you are to society, go hand your self
also to the guy i was arguing with, i type my post but went to opened a tab instead a refreshed the page so my post was lost, any in summary
-things dont cost the same in everyshop
-deals
-ps3 cost twice as dear in uk than in us
- a ***** in macys made me pay twice as much
-your a retard
-your cheap ass
-dont forget to include energy and fuel bills
-rechargeable batteries run out, buy new controller
-3rd party controllers
really their was too much to write out again
although you have a sick mind thinking when a someone who is aged 2yr is mentioned that guys a pedo??????
i dont have the time any more to pointlessly argue with a retard thieving *****
also...thinks.....
actually i forget what i was saying
also to anyone thinking this is just to cover is ass
why release it on the net, when its sure to spread and for an employee to find it very quickly and get in contact with him
also why send emails multiple times
he obviously wants to get through
Emcp, I've read through your comments and not only were they hard to read through but your arguments were nothing but ignorant ranting which surprises me that s0nlx actually would respond to some one like you who just throws out insults more then trying to prove his own point in the argument.
You don't win an argument or try to get your point through by using insults an elementary school child would use. In fact, it makes you look like a little bratty kid in elementary school. Also most of your "Facts" you're trying to throw out is nothing more but opinionated bull crap.
So playing Lumines determines what age some one is? So I guess playing madden makes me look like a 30 year old guy eh? One would actually know that Lumines and Ratchet and clank are good games if they're willing to give them a chance.
I say just release it honestly, you make it public in all of our faces and yet you're holding it back to send it to Nintendo? What's the point of making custom firmware or homebrew enabled wii's by exploiting software, but when it comes to an Iso loader this guy some how out of no where has morals of not to do so? It's okay to download virtual console games that nintendo is making money off of (nes emulator,snes,n 64 emulators) but when it comes to a simple ISO loader you back down? Bah...just release it >_
I say just release it honestly, you make it public in all of our faces and yet you're holding it back to send it to Nintendo? What's the point of making custom firmware or homebrew enabled wii's by exploiting software, but when it comes to an Iso loader this guy some how out of no where has morals of not to do so? It's okay to download virtual console games that nintendo is making money off of (nes emulator,snes,n 64 emulators) but when it comes to a simple ISO loader you back down? Bah...just release it >_
this is what i said
"lumines, serious, how you *****in joking me"
i never said lumines were for kids
i guess it really was hard for you to read,
maybe go back to school ? ...
and yh i might have been wrong with rachet and clank, but it just didnt appeal to me
its just another spyro game (although spyro rocked)
"So I guess playing madden makes me look like a 30 year old guy eh?"
wtf was that about.....
dont like madden wither but then again thats your home sports, i prefer a bit quicker game like NHL or FIFA and dare i say it Gaeilge games (although that was a bitter dissapointment, they nearly had the hurling but that crappy scoring system made it far to easy to score)
also i have given them a chance
you posted a comment twice, an hour away unless it was on the 59th minute or something
anyway
Bushing does not agree with dl VC games, infact the guy who made it was banned from the wiibrew community (although thats a bit hard todo)
also CFW is not only for iso's
its for easier launching of homebrew
and probably safer as theyre beable to make their own channels now.. with less to zero risk of bad banners etc
also look at the psp, it allows ps1 games to be played,
it allows for customisation
and the guy is actually looking out for the wiibrew community
by helping nintendo preventing iso, trust is earned making nintendo less worried about soft-modified wiis running pirate copies,
letting them to be a little less bothered with HB, so that means less patches, which also means more time spending adding new features to FW
look at the psp, most of the time they try to prevent psp's from running hb and look at how many new features its got recently, a search bar lol
although sony seems to have totally given up, because DA has them in his palm with the pandora etc, you cant patch old hardware like that lol
"What's the point of making custom firmware or homebrew enabled wii's by exploiting software, but when it comes to an Iso loader this guy some how out of no where has morals of not to do so?"
Wii piracy wasn't possible without hardware mods until this happened. It's not "out of nowhere". Quit trying to justify the fact that you're upset you can't steal your games.
Thanks for proving my point! You never fail to throw insults whenever you are trying argue with someone.
As much as this contradicts what I've been saying in my post but shouldn't you be the one to go back to school for your horrible spelling and grammar?
Super Metroid works fine with my standard GameCube controllers. System can't tell the difference between a Wavebird and a normal GC controller. Might there be something wrong with your hardware?
Am i the only one that would welcome an iso loader, dn't get me wrong and start going off on one at me :-( but i really do have young kids that are pains in the arse and i really am hissed of with haveing to keep replaceing games.
Would be nice to be able to bk up games that i paid good money for without have to fork out more money for a chip!!
whats the point backing up games your kids ruin
teach them not to ruin them in the first place, its a good lesson, its as if your saying theres a undo button in life
I also have small children. My oldest is 7 and has finally learned that once a CD or DVD is scratched that it no longer works. Nintendo fought hard and long to NOT go to a cd or DVD medium for this very reason. They stayed with plug in carts as long as they could because they KNEW their systems would be abiused by children and adults.
I dont know about you guys, but I bought my wii for my children. I have a mod chip in it so I can play backups of games that I LEGALLY own. When the disk gets scratched or lost I burn a new copy while the original resides in a much safer location.
If there was a software ISO loader it would NOT change my life much. Simply because I have the chip already.
BUT, if there was an HDD enabvled ISO loader I would be ALL over it! Plug in a 500 gb ext hdd, load all your games on it. Have a channel on the menu that loads up a list of ALL my games on the HDD and runs it right off there! That would be amazing!
I see Bushings point. But I think he places too mycg trust in thinking that if he submits this info to nintendo in good faith that they will leave him alone. I really doubt it. Having the HBC running on a wii allows OTHER programmers to create less "legit" software. So, even though the HBC is NOT designed by the author to allow ISO laoders, it certainly is a back door that can easily be used to attain that goal. That very fact shows that its difficult (read impossible) for BUshing or anyone else to stop an enterprising indevidual from using it for evil.
BTW: Has anyone seen Bushing AND Waninkoko in the same place at the same time? I often wonder if Waninkoko is really BUshings alter ego. He uses one to put on a front about how legit he is, and the other to release all the software that he really wanted out there, but needs someone to piont the finger at....... hmmmmmmmm
i agree big time plugging a hard drive would be great buy the game pop it on hdd and file the game safe.
"BUshing or anyone else to stop an enterprising indevidual from using it for evil."
every heard of a patch,
to stop malicious software being run through both Twilight Hack and HBC
he is also preventing an individual from making an iso loader or at least slowing them down
fact is an iso loader will come with or without is input, if he can steer the majority of the wiibrew community to HBC, i effect to prevent them from using nother persons prog which may eventually lead to an iso loader
heck the majority of the community is on HBC, he could prevent them from going onto a CFW etc, although a backdoor will be found, before much people have the chance to realise theres a backdoor, patch it
basically he limits the temptation of illegal iso being used by giving the community HB and nothing else, this means the majority of "Hackers" on the community, how content has they have HB
I may be wrong, but I dont think they have incorperated anything that limits certain software from running on HBC.
Technically any ISO loader released WOULD be homebrew. Yes the actual ISO is copyrighted, but the software used and written to display the list of ISO's and to actually execute them would be entirely (or mostly) made of original source. SO, there really is no difference between a homebrew version of guitar hero, or an iso loader. The application of the actual homebrew is different, but the root of the whole thing is that both softwares are entirely legal.
This is why I say that the existance of HBC IS the back door needed to allow the fan base to run the ISO loader. Not to mention, if the iso loader comes as a dol, it could be run from HBC, but it could also be run from TP hack, or even from a trucha signed ISO. AFter that I would expect it to install as its own channel.
So again, ANY ISO loader will most certainly be installed using TP hack, or HBC, or trucha ISO. And ALL of those tools were released by Bushing. So, for him to sit and try to thwart those plans will be in vain. Sure HE (bushing) wont release the source for his ISO loader. But he has provided the tools needed for someone else to do it.
Not to mention the very fact that he ANNOUNCED that he figured out a way to do it, means that the other guys will be more determined to figure out what he found out. Bushing is NOT the only smart coder out there. And depending on how tight lipped he is (or isnt) about the workings of the wii someone else will surely figure it out as well. I suspect that person will NOT be so moral about releasing the source, or the details or just making it himself. EVer see HDD Loader for PS2? It worked GREAT on non modded PS2's. Once that was out I NEVER had to open the disc tray again. I am expecting something similar for the wii. The sooner it happens the happier I will be!
An iso loader is similar to owning a gun. In most places it is NOT illegal to own a gun. But it is against the law just about anywhere on earth to use that gun to kill someone.
in that same sense it is NOT illegal to own an ISO loader. It IS illegal though to USE the iso loader to run games that you do NOT own.
I will not argue that MOST of the people out there would use it to run ISO's that they have downloaded. Because I am SURE that is the case. But the existance of the loader certainly could have a very legitimate and valid reason.
I think your rite now "hackers" "people" that no the workings of the wii will probley be sat at the pc and a wii's trying to work out where the exploit is .......
totally ignored what i was saying
i said when an iso loader comes out IT WILL THEN BE BLOCKED, when the next revision comes out IT WILL THEN BE BLOCKED, this will continue on, eventually everyone would have had the iso loader, but by slowing the transformation down, it allows for nintendo and devs to become more profitable, any time is useful time
also
he discovered the exploit, he is patching it with nintendo, it wont make people more determined as everyone know it was possible, it always is, the matter is how
also bushing made HBC for HB not to allow commercial games to be played (yes the iso loader is homebrew but the end result isnt[normally])
the majority of devs who know what they are doing, know the actually impact of iso loaders and steer clear, bushing has a backbone, normally devs who would make something similar to HBC would get tempted to making an iso loader, but bushing isnt
the fact is bushing hasnt encouraged an iso loader, if required his apps such as HBC may be patched later on inorder to prevent the iso loader
although he should make it possible now to be able to force an update when required
i still think an iso loader or some way of playing bk-up's will happon just a question of when!!!!!!!!
it will
no-one is denying that, im just standing up for bush
because everyone is saying
A) hes simply covering his ass
B) hes at fault due to HBC
C) hurray up and release it (something along those lines)
it is always gonna happen, bush is simply trying to slow it down
"i said when an iso loader comes out IT WILL THEN BE BLOCKED, when the next revision comes out IT WILL THEN BE BLOCKED, this will continue on, eventually everyone would have had the iso loader, but by slowing the transformation down, it allows for nintendo and devs to become more profitable, any time is useful time"
Remember when the 3.3 update was released and no one bothered with the update until the twilight hack was made compatible with it? I sure do. Last time I checked updating your Wii isn't mandatory.
Also, get off Bushing's nuts.
Yes, you are absolutly right. WHEN an ISO loader comes out it is VERY possible for Bushing to patch HBC so that it does NOT allow it to run or load that app. Right now HBC DOES auto download any updates to it, but it does NOT force you to update. It asks if you would like to. You just have to say (no I do not agree) and then you are still on the old unpatched HBC. Everyone knew NOT to update to 3.3, so if Waninkoko were to release an ISO loader he would have to let everyone know NOT to update the HBC just in case there is a blocker built into it. The thing is that it only would need to run once to install it as a channel. AND depending on how its packed up he may have a way around it. For example, if he can figure out how to pack it as a WAD file instead, then you could run the WAD installed and then install it as a channel and go.
This also raises my next point. The wad installed is pretty much only used to put on VC games, or wiiware. Yet Bushing still allows it to run on HBC. If he is so adamnant that his tools are NOT to be used for playing DL content, I would have suspected that would be blocked by now too.
If ninty tries to block it you know just not to update.
Either way, the point is moot.
1) Yes there will be an ISO loader. When, by who, and how it will work is still in question
2) Bushing has tried to contact nintendo, as far as I know they have not got back to him. So it seems doubtfull that he is helping work on a patch at all.
3) I am pretty sure Bushing would leave an ISO loader alone. As long as he did not make it, and he did what was right and let ninty know about the flaw, then he is clear. I dont think a guy like bushing has the right to decide what code I can or can not run on my wii though. So I hope he does not try to block it.
I think thats it.
Also, for the record I dont think I am busting BUshings balls over this. I was just trying to say its going to happen. I agree, he has to do what he can to let ninty know. And if he does not want to release any details to us he certainly does not have to.
1. i said if bushing was gonna go down that path, hed have to incorporate a mandatory update now
although i guess, just turn of your wireless and dl a patch to patch hbc from requiring you, and you could always reinstall the HBC
also valid point about wad installer, but the iso loader i would presume would be alot more effective on nintendos profits, and it might just be the straw that breaks the camels back into getting bushing to block iso loader
but i guess due to the fact the hbc itself could be patched it might not be worth his time
also to khaijiao
did you actually read my comment, because you have no clue what i said
and also "Also, get off Bushing's nuts."
i was on his side....O_o
I refuse to read one of your comments in entirety.
Scarface88 beat me to it... Everything you said was pointless. When you buy a VC title it tells you what you need.
Also, you don't NEED to buy a VC title. Again, Nintendo is NOT putting a gun to your head and forcing you to buy anything.
Those that buy any product do so because they WANT to.
Why wouldn't you be able to pay for nunchucks? You saved a bunch of money buying the Wii to begin with. If you can't afford it then don't buy it. Your piss poor financial state isn't Nintendo's problem or anyone else's problem but your own!
Too many dumb kids on the internet these days that think the world owes them "something".
s0nlxaftrsh0ck,
Do everyone a favor and learn to use the REPLY link!
Your numbers are pointless. First off, not all games REQUIRE the nunchuck. Also, you aren't factoring the cost ofthe CONSOLE.
Even if you buy three full controllers the Wii is still cheaper then the other two. If you factor in the new add-on they just announced then the Wii is slightly more then the 360 and still cheaper then the PS3. However this again assume 4 full blown controllers which simply is not needed.
Get a clue! About life and how to use QJ.
In all honesty do you think because game developers lose the drive to make great games because people pirate it? Honestly, that may have a the smallest effect on them, game developers compete amongst each other for making a better game, not for the profits that roll in. Look at all the grand theft auto games, the amount of work put into those games, and do you know how many people pirated that game? HUGE amounts of people copied GTA SA and look at GTA IV its probably the best sandbox game ever created. Think before you anti-piracy freaks come in here and start spouting out facts that you feel are correct when you have no evidence to back it up. To be honest every game I own i have bought, i never modded any of my systems except the PSP and thats because i wanted to customize it which should have been allowed from the start. Another little thing is i played GTA on my PS2 for a long time, so i downloaded it for the PC *illegal*, but you know what i paid for it once why should i pay for it again.
"In all honesty do you think because game developers lose the drive to make great games because people pirate it?"
i didnt *****in mention anything about drive from devs
im talking about, that it leaves devs and researchers less money to develop in new technologies which improve gameplay, that is a fact.
"developers compete amongst each other for making a better game"
that is a pure opinion, and it also stereotypes devs, you cant say all devs are in it for the competition.
funny enough alot are in it for the money, but if they are gonna have to work they might aswell do something they feel is beneficial and what they enjoy, do you really think if devs were asked either to work on games or get paid for nothing
theyd actually choose the work, a few might but certainly not all
"Think before you anti-piracy freaks come in here and start spouting out facts that you feel are correct when you have no evidence to back it up"
i dont see you given any evidence, at lest we give common sense
"GTA IV its probably the best sandbox game ever created"
mm i think many many would disagree, you can see that alot of work was put into it. you should actually be using this as an example when research doesnt always mean a better game
and sure it doesnt but it can drive the business into good graphics, an interactive world etc, but someone could come along with a better story line and then you might have the best game...
basically research doesnt always help in full view of everyone, but it does help, it can set a new standard of other features, just because gta4 storyline may not have been top notched doesnt mean you cant copy its other elements and improve
do you see where im coming from
also you are simply trying to justify your actions, its like saying if i kill this hobo and take his money no-one will care as he has no family atleast it can help me....
bit more drastic however
also a game for the ps2 is not the same game for pc, the gfx, research and story line might be the same, but coding is different and therefore it costs, theres also production fees etc
however i do believe if you own a game for the ps3, you should be able to get a reducted price for the same "game" on the pc
as youve paid for the gfx etc already, but you should still pay for the coding etc
and khaijiao, you do realise what a wanker you look like
and finally it seems all those who have argued against have failed to fully read my comments, it just shows
I read all your posts. And I agree to most of it. You are deff right, if they wanted to FORCE an update it would need to be implemented right now. And then not allow an "out". But also, as you say. Its easy enough to just delete HBC, then grab a copy of an older version (or pack it with the ISO loader rar). Install that with your router off, then install ISO loader channel and then allow the update of HBC. I just dont think Bushing would be interested in that cat and mouse game. something like that between 2 homebrew coders could get ulgy. Between ninty and the Homebrew coders is another story.
I also fail to see the significance of downloaded games VS the effect on game content. Fact is, there has ALWAYS been games thrown together with sloppy code, bad graphxm terrible story line, or shady controls. This has been around a LOT longer than mainstream pirating. To say that if there was no piracy there would ONLY be good games is upsurd. The PS3 is STILL not open to play backups, and I could list to you ALL the games that I would ever want to play on that system.
1) MGS
2) Skate
3).......... uh, is there a third???
I am sure some other people list are longer. But with all these GREAT graphcs systems there has NOT been an improvement in games. In fact, it costs more than EVER to create a good game BECAUSE of the graphics. Since its capble of soooo much the consumer DEMANDS that its always bigger and better than before. Thats the thing Ninty has going for them. They didnt build a power house system. So devs MUST rely on game play, and story to make a good game. Because they certainly will NOT sell a system for the graphics. And I still do NOT beleive that the devs are losing sleep over piracy. They are contracted to a game for a certain price. If the game makes 1 million or 30 million they still ONLY get their $60,000 for the year. Yes the publisher will lose sleep. But what difference does it make if they only make $500,000 or $50 Million profit on the game. There will ALWAYS be more money to make more games. The ONLY distributers that have gone belly up did NOT do it because of piracy. they did it because they made crap game after crap game. I am sure most consumers are GLAD they didnt waste their money on the sucky games.
All in all, the industry beleif that 1 download + 1 LOST game sale is not true. there may be a ratio there. but it is certainly NOT 1 - 1.
"o say that if there was no piracy there would ONLY be good games is upsurd"
i never said that bad games were made due to piracy alone
im pretty sure i never even said piracy can cause bad games
i just said piracy means less research money which can prevent the games industry from moving on, which would result in lesser games than what they should be.
and which could get the devs pissed bored, having to do the same thing without any change, that could cause sleepless nights
like i said theres not exactly a direct link of the effects of piracy but there are links
and finally, are you sure that all devs are cut and dry, there may be contracts which offer them a minimal percentage of the profits
also dont forget the better games the make the more work the get... more money
see not a direct link but it does have a heavy influence
infact i think i read somewhere that cod4 pc devs were pissed about people abusing their game, by piracy and that the numbers are unreal
also totally agree with you about MGS, i hated it SKATE was alright but the MP was crap and it just got to boring
RIDGE RACER is still by far the worst game for the ps3
i also wasnt able to understand a few of your points the whole way round, but i think you generally summed it up at the end of each paragraph
No i dont see where you are coming from, piracy effects nothing. You can say thats just an opinion, but its the truth. Say what you want, ive studied heavily into this.
I didn't bother to read all this crap. But I did read the short comment at the end and MasterMind111 is 100% right.
Piracy as an ACTION affects nothings. It's a known FACT that pirates consume less then 1 percent of console sales. This is PROVEN via modchip sales versus console sales.
PC is a little harder to determine. But the FACT there continues to be new PC games sales proves that even a COMPLETELY OPEN pirated system affects nothing.
Having a system that can be pirated affects a company at the business level. Stocks, support, share holders....blah blah blah. Which is why the Pc isn't as affected since no one owns "PC". It's an open market.
Anyone else who wants to argue with facts.... have fun.
Hopefully ISO you realize that you just agreed with me?
EMCP, I cant say 100% that "ALL devs get paid on contact per game". But the dev process is usually well under way by the time they start coding for it. I highly doubt that they sit there and say
"gee, if you had of offered me $100,000 instead of $60,000 I would be able to come up with somethine new and improved for this game. But since your only paying me $60,000 I am just gonna make another normal season of Madden Football"
I would be upset if someone ripped off my work. But the point is, if I was paid by the publisher to make it, I do not own anything for it anymore. Everything I write is submitted to them, and they own it to do what they want with it. If people download the game or buy it, it does NOT + more money in my pocket or less. I still get paid the same amount.
Yes there are cases where a dev could suggest he wants little up front, and a percentage of the profit. And in that case it owudl hurt him. But if a dev was in that position he would ensure the game did NOT suck.
I think you miss read my post a bit. I was listing games that I WANT to play on the PS3. I had 3 that I cam up with. Thats the reason I still dont own one. I cant justify $500 for a system that has 3 games I want to play. My point was that the PS3 is NOT hacked at all, and they STILL are making JUNK games not worth buying. If your theory of no piracy means more money for devs to make better games, then where are all the GOOD ps3 games?????? They have had a year and half to get them out, and I still dont see any. The wii has been out just as long, IS hacked and has some GREAT games on it. I can list those for you too
1) Super paper Mario
2) Mario Galaxy
3) Mario Party 8
4) My life as King (wii ware)
5) Mario Kart
And most people like Twillight princess. I thought it was OK as a release title. But that was it.
"Hopefully ISO you realize that you just agreed with me?"
If that's the end result of my comment then so be it. I didn't ready any of your posts here. I directly agreed with MasterMind111. If all three of us happen to agree then again, so be it. Regardless of what that idiot Mr. Common Douche Bag says I do not simply disagree with people just because I don't like them. If a person is right, then a person is right. He's just NEVER been right in anything that's I've read and commented back on. With the exception of no brainer idiot remarks.
So, you shouldn't be surprised that I agree with you. Hell, even freeplay and myself have agreed from time to time and I REALLY don't like that guy. But, when he's right, he right.
What you will find, whether you see it now or not, is that I'm as non biased of a person you'll ever meet.
I'm a software dev and my software DOES get stolen. But I don't care. I have no means to track these people down and in the end they would have never bought my software anyway. That doesn't mean it's OK. They are still breaking the law but oh well. Of all my software though the only apps that have been pirated are ones I ported to U3. Everything else is pretty heavily locked down.
so, as a soft ware dev. Can you explain how the process works from what you create to what you are paid? Ie: if you create software that sells more than "X" copies do you get a bonus? If your software fails miserably do you have to pay back some of what you got paid to create it? Have you created a successful software app or game, then found that the company went belly up because everyone downloaded it rather than pay for it?
"Can you explain how the process works from what you create to what you are paid?"
I'm a dev two levels.
1. My own side business. I get paid 80% of the sale price. 20% goes to the payment processor.
2. For the company I work for. What I code 100% belongs to them. I get paid an annual salary.
"if you create software that sells more than "X" copies do you get a bonus?"
If I help to create software that does "well", HELL YEAH I get a bonus. But then again, I work for a good company. They look out after us. All jobs done well are rewarded.
"If your software fails miserably do you have to pay back some of what you got paid to create it?"
This is what you call ILLEGAL. Absolutely not. Not unless your an idiot and you signed some wacked out contract. For example a consultant. But I highly doubt anyone is that dumb. That would be like, I paid a mechanic to fix my car. Then I crashed my car. Now the mechanic owe me back some money for the work he did....????..... that's insane.
"Have you created a successful software app or game, then found that the company went belly up because everyone downloaded it rather than pay for it?"
Nope. I've seen my own software and my companies software on torrent sites. The day a new piece of software is seen on a torrent our financial reports for the month prior, month during and next month are 100% unaffected.
There certainly is some truth to, "if they're pirates they wouldn't have paid for it anyway". Again, that doesn't make it right and they are stealing but as I said before...whatever. Screw them. They wont get support.
Thanks for that. It seems that its the way that I had figured it was, but I am not buddies with coders, so sometimes its hard to be sure.
One other thing I was wondering....... would you say that the arrangement you have with your employer is typical? Meaning, we could assume safely that anyone making games for the wii or other systems would have a similar arrangement?
Yes, other software publishing houses work the same way.