The Inquirer: The Xbox 360 can "out fold" the PS3 |
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The Inquirer reports that during an interview with San Jose Mercury News, Microsoft's Peter Moore admitted that Microsoft was somewhat left out by Sony's PS3 Folding@Home initiative. However, he does take a jab at Sony and says: "IÂ’m not quite sure yet whether weÂ’re seeing real tangible results from the PlayStation 3 Folding@Home initiative."
What's interesting about the Inquirer report is that they speculate that the Xbox 360 could possibly beat the PS3 when it comes to folding. Here's their words:
The Geforce 7900 inside the PS3 is no match for Xenos in the Xbox. Even the Sony Cell would probably end beaten by 48 vec4+scalar units hidden inside Xbox's 360 graphics chip. Folding@Home is Stream Computing at its finest, and six/seven/eight SPE units can flourish in the CPU. But when compared to the GPU, the Xbox 360 GPU would probably run in circles around Cell CPU.
And then Microsoft's marketing machine might get interested in touting Folding@Home for the Xbox 360 console, since it would no longer be a race between a snail and a rabbit, as far as protein folding performance is concerned.
Well, we're pretty sure that a lot of you PSP homebrew-making devs are leagues and leagues more "1337" than us when it comes to technical stuff like this, so what's you're take on this? Can the Xbox 360 "out fold" the PS3? Let is know in the comments.
Via The Inquirer
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Comments [refresh]
It was obvious from the day the 360 came out it was more than a match for any system that would be arriving in the next couple of years as it is showing now, where it counts in the games dept especially the graphic end... Folding at home will be no problem for the 360....
You wish microsuck
for me it's a general rule when i see negetive comments about a console, to look at who actually made the comment, if it's the rival/competitor, i completely ignore it in favour of reality, not accept the *****ty attempt to sell more units.
To sony : Good job with Folding@home, now release some bloody games
To Microsoft : Shut up, Put up, or release your own Folding@home software, IF then, the results show that the 360 can handle it better, THEN you can showboat, mindless tattle "ours can do better than that" is nothing more than childish playground taunts.
As for the first post, Motorstorm runs at 60fps at 720p, Forza runs at 60fps at 720p, sorry to hurt your fanboy ass.
GPU folding works only for certain simulations, so they could be faster but less flexible..
And just wait untill the folding software comes to NIVIDIA graphic boards, then the PS3 could combine it's CPU and GPU power..
No, it wont since you cant do both CPU AND GPU at the same time.
"they speculate" .. "could possibly beat" ...
yea right, dream further. and btw, the console counts itself only as a full unit. its like you compare a Mac GPU vs a PC GPU. The PC GPU may beat the MAC GPU, but the "whole" MAC beats the PC.
a gpu, thats not even capable of DX10, out doing a Cell Processor? so says the "Inquirer"?
good joke QJ, you made my day.
most people know the cell is at its best when it comes to number crunching and multi processing.
"No, it wont since you cant do both CPU AND GPU at the same time" says who? You? some unregistered douchbag?
forza's graphics arent even that great.
i doubt you even played motorstorm, yet you compare it.
The more devices that can Fold the better, we need to start curing some of these diseases fast. Who cares about who can Fold faster.
But even though GPU folding is faster, according to the F@H crew its so much more limitting on what calculations it can do. But this shouldnt stop them doing it as something has to do it. With the PS3 Folding on the Cell and XBOX360 Folding on its GPU, cancer could be a thing of the past
...but Cell is more flexible in comparison, but less flexible than a typical CPU.
This is what they say on the Folding website;
http://folding.stanford.edu/FAQ-highperformance.html
"The PS3 is a powerful system for scientific calculation. Its Cell processor has the potential to be very powerful. In many ways, the Cell (and therefore the PS3) sits in between GPU's and multi-core CPU's. It is more flexible than GPU's, but less flexible than CPU's in the calculations it can perform. Consequently, it is more powerful than CPU's, but less powerful than GPU's. In the balance between flexibility and speed, the Cell makes a natural middle path."
The stats have ALWAYS shown ATI GPUs way ahead of PS3 in terms of performance;
http://fah-web.stanford.edu/cgi-bin/main.py?qtype=osstats
Do the calculations and you'll see that each ATI GPU averages about 60 GFLOPs, whereas each PS3 averages about 17 GFLOPS. The GPU is offering 3 times the performance!
Please note however that the results are skewed by the fact that if you pause to play a game on the PS3, then the FLOP count will lower. However, a more accurate figure comes from when the stats were first shown, where the PS3 was about 25 GFLOPs.
http://www.qj.net/PS3-triples-Folding-Home-computing-power/pg/49/aid/87166
Therefore given this info together with what they say on the website, the ATI GPUs offers well over twice the performance of Cell for Folding.
So the ATI GPU (Xenos) in the 360 will offer much better performance compared to Cell in the PS3.
BTW, before anyone argues, please look at the data on the Folding@Home website, and read their comments first. :)
...
nonono
god.
the whole reason computers have a cpu even though gpu's have been shown to be way powerful is that gpu's are like rainman... they're thick apart from number crunching, cpu's are like a really smart person, can figure out anything but maybe not do the inhuman things rainman could do - but at the same time can wipe their own arse.
clearly folding@home doesn't just want gpu power as otherwise... and i know this is tough to understand... it would be working WAY FASTER on all the pcs in the world. that's right, pc's have gpu's in them too!!
stop being idiots, just because gpu's can outpace anything out there when it comes to one particular kind of operation doesn't mean that a system with a great gpu is going to be great.
is the nvidia one that much worse than ati? i would have thought they're about equal.
motorstorm is 30fps @ 720p
I repeat, GPU folding is far less flexible and can only do certain simulations...
it's one of the main reasons I bought a PS3, because it had NVIDIA over ATI...
I remember a time when you didn't want an Ati card, but a Voodoo (nvidia) just wait till the folding software is ready for them...
"As for the first post, Motorstorm runs at 60fps at 720p, Forza runs at 60fps at 720p, sorry to hurt your fanboy ass.!
Motorstorm runs at 30fps! I thought everyone knew that already?
eg.
http://totalplaystation.com/ps3//previews/166/2
"The game is now locked at 30fps with a few minor hitches, but the sense of speed is definitely there..."
Search for MotorStorm + 30fps on google. ;)
"stop being idiots, just because gpu's can outpace anything out there when it comes to one particular kind of operation doesn't mean that a system with a great gpu is going to be great."
You do understand the simluarities between the ATI GPUs offering the great performance for Folding and the ATI GPU within the 360? Don't you.
These views are not based on generalisations about GPUs in general, but about the performance of ATI's GPU for such calculations.
"is the nvidia one that much worse than ati? i would have thought they're about equal."
Again, from the Folding website;
http://folding.stanford.edu/FAQ-ATI.html
"The R580 (in the X1900XT, etc.) performs particularly well for molecular dynamics, due to its 48 pixel shaders. Currently, other cards (such as those from nVidia and other ATI cards) do not perform well enough for our calculations as they have fewer pixel shaders. Also, nVidia cards in general have some technical limitations beyond the number of pixel shaders which makes them perform poorly in our calculations."
Isn't searching for "Motorstorm and 30fps" on google going to exclude any mention of it running at 60fps?
"These views are not based on generalisations about GPUs in general, but about the performance of ATI's GPU for such calculations."
EXACTLY!
He completely missed the point that it's specifically ATI's 48 shader gpus which are giving the great performance for folding, not gpus in general and definately not nvidia's gpus.
Voodoo is not Nvidia mate.. It was 3DFX..
Here's my $0.02, Basically the Inquirer and Microsoft are trying to stir $hit up by "speculating" that their Xbox360 can do it better. Its not been proven, and probably never will be, but they can keep claiming that "We could have done it better". Thanks QJ, you're gonna start another flame war soon enough... Please give us real news and not tabloid speculation crap pls...
have F@H... Imagine how many Xboxes would start showing the ring of death!?!? This is just a joke... I'm beginning to hate QJ's "speculative" posts and their "spin" on things.... GIVE US REAL NEWS DAMMIT!
While that post sounded quite fanboyish, he does have a point in one aspect. The 360 wasn't made to be working at full power 24 hours a day and never be turned off. I'm sure they could work around this minor inadequacy by slowing down the speed of the folding and not using the 360's full power, but would it be worth it then?
Well, this post is evident how much Sony fanboys are out there that refuse to acknowledge any fault whatsoever.
Here is SummerGamer, who did his research and posted facts, with links to back it up, that says exactly what the Inquirer said...that while the Cell is powerful, it isn't as powerful as the Xenos in this type of application. And yet, despite this strict fact laden post, with basically no opinion, it doesn't get voted up.
Now take a look at the first reply: It's a post laden with opinion about how great the PS3 is, with almost zero facts backing it up. In fact, it even has a bit of childish name calling. And yet, this is the post that gets voted up.
If that isn't a good indication of the rampant "fanboyism," then I don't know what is.
From the folding website (see SummerGamer's post below);
"Also, nVidia cards in general have some technical limitations beyond the number of pixel shaders which makes them perform poorly in our calculations."
What a stupid article. The folding@home project only uses the CPU!
The only thing the GPU does is give you the pretty molecule picture to look at. It does not do a single computation for the project!
This is what the creators of the project has said. You know the same ones who also said that the Cell processor was much better suited to the Kind of calculations that the project requires. This was stated I think a week ago on both the 360 and PS3 QJ networks. I would need to go way back to find it, but its there.
And The Inguirer better check its sources. Both the 360 and the PS3 uses a version of the 7900 nvidia PC card.
And of course the GPU of any system would run circles around the Cell Processor. If you know anything about computers, the Graphics cards of today are 50x as powerful as any processor. The cpu has been the limiting factor in high end pcs for years now, it just cant keep up with the GPUs.
What a stupid article, they should check their facts before publishing.
Sorry my mistake, I was so caught up in the moment that I meant to say that both the PS3 and the 360 use equivilant genartations of graphics cards. The PS3 with the RSX, a supped up version of the 7900. And the 360, with the supped up version of the x1800.
They both are capable of the same features and have almost identical performance in the pc graphics cards world.
"The only thing the GPU does is give you the pretty molecule picture to look at. It does not do a single computation for the project!"
Have you read the website? What do you think is happening here?;
http://fah-web.stanford.edu/cgi-bin/main.py?qtype+osstats
So, the GPUs are giving 60 GFLOPS each just for graphics whereas the PS3 is giving less than half of that for 'real' work? How dumb are you?
Please stfu when you don't know what you're talking about and READ the link Summergamer provided -
http://folding.stanford.edu/FAQ-highperformance.html
To quote from that link;
"What are GPU's and how can they help FAH? GPU's are Graphics Processing Units -- chips used in today's PC's to help speed high performance graphics, such as 3D games or 3D scientific visualization. GPUs have the possibility to perform an enormous number of Floating Point OPerations (FLOPs). However, they achieve this high performance by losing generality -- there are only certain types of calculations which would be well-suited to GPUs. However, after much work, we have been able to write a highly optimized molecular dynamics code for GPU's, achieving a 20x to 40x speed increase over comparable CPU code for certain types of calculations in FAH. This means that we will be able to make an enormous advance over what we could do only just a few years ago."
So, you were saying?
"They both are capable of the same features and have almost identical performance in the pc graphics cards world. "
This is what they say on the Folding website;
http://folding.stanford.edu/FAQ-ATI.html
"The R580 (in the X1900XT, etc.) performs particularly well for molecular dynamics, due to its 48 pixel shaders. Currently, other cards (such as those from nVidia and other ATI cards) do not perform well enough for our calculations as they have fewer pixel shaders. Also, nVidia cards in general have some technical limitations beyond the number of pixel shaders which makes them perform poorly in our calculations."
Come on, sorry I got a bit heated in my last post, but I hate it when people make claims without doing ANY research at all.
"Well, this post is evident how much Sony fanboys are out there that refuse to acknowledge any fault whatsoever."
That's so true, and true of other fanboys too (360, Nintendo, PC etc).
I thought I mentioned it was a joke... Bah... can't win them all. ^_^
the news above is only true IF the x360 uses its GPU to fold
if you've been folding for quite a while and like checking stats, you'll see that ATI GPU has somewhat and advantage over PS3's CELL(like it or not, it's a fact)
but you also have to remember that there're very limited WU for ATI''s GPU currently compared to WU's for CELL which is more flexible
it will 1st make some freakin loud noise, overheat and die.
Sigh, this whole GFLOPs business has turned into something like an online version of a "who's got a bigger Peni$"... You do have to wonder however, if the increase in power from using a GPU is so substantial... why not do it? It doesn't matter if its less flexible than CPUs, it can still help out in some ways right?
I'm just "speculating" here but could it be that it just isn't worth the time and effort to create a 360 GPU specific F@H app, in spite of the incredible DOUBLE GFLOPs compared to the Cell?
props to SummerGamer
just to remind uninformed people here...
our body contains thousands of different protein structure than ATI can simulate
now if you cant read between the lines... well... nothing i can do for you
As a proud ps3 owner and general xbox360 hater, im more than willing to slam any hope of the 360 out performing the ps3, but fact is, the 360 gpu CAN outperform a PS3's but you have to take into consideration the fact that the ps3 gpu has some "limitations" (all nvidia cards) regarding F@H specific program code and calculations and the 360's gpu can outperform without any trouble for the F@H cause.
This post is yet again turning into a "which console is better", guess what, NO ONE CARES, its for medical research not gaming, games are programmed completely differently for both systems and therefore programmers can take advantage of either consoles unique features to give you virtually the same results, but this time XBOX360 has got the main advantage of having a gpu with less technical limitations...get over it
"You do have to wonder however, if the increase in power from using a GPU is so substantial... why not do it?"
Well, they have done it on the PC!
But it's not like they could say "Hey guys, let's do this on the 360 right now", and start working on it. :)
They would have to approach MS, they would have to have agreement, they would need devs kits and work out the issues of integration between their app and XBL (it's not open like the PS3 online), and numerous other issues.
I'm sure part of the interest at the beginning was that the PS3 gave them an opportunity to work with the Cell processor, to see what it was capable of.
So we'll have to wait and see whether they consider it worth their while bringing it to the 360.
Sigh... Don't steal someone elses Nick if its already registered... its lame... The real Quixand doesn't post like a rabid fanboy...
"Isn't searching for "Motorstorm and 30fps" on google going to exclude any mention of it running at 60fps?"
All I'm saying is the evidense in on the web for anyone to find, hence Motorstorm IS 30fps!
You will find many link where they mention that the framerate is 30 fps and not 60 fps as hoped for.
In fact, search for Motorstorm and 60 fps and you'll find many links to it being 720p and 30fps instead of 1080p and 60fps (including those reported here on QJ).
Motorstorm reviews also state it is 30fps. Those are the facts. :)
Wasn't that what the 2nd half of my post was about?
I agree with you that Motorstorm is running at 30fps (so do all the websites - which I found by googling Motorstorm + Frame Rate instead of Motorstorm + 30fps)...
I was just pointing out the potential for bias.
i do post like a rabid fanboy but just against certain people who i find it fun to piss off... but it's all just for some forum fun...
and to you Unregistered Quixand i've been ignoring you for a month now... so please just find something else to pass away the time.
Just the fact that this article is from the INQUIRER.com is hilarious...wasn't it these people that once released and article claiming our president was abducted by aliens? haha
yeah sike.
30 or 60 fps....so what !!??the game still looks better than any game the ps3 and the 360 have untill now...yes better than Gears of war!. So clearly framerate is nothing you cant bypass sort of speak to achive something visualy good.
If Microsoft released Folding@Home for the Xbox 360, you would see 360s across the globe dropping like flies due to heat issues. The XBox would not be able to handle the sustained heat that is associated with running a CPU/GPU intensive program.
DO IT MICROSOFT... I DARE YOU!!
but seriously, microsoft pitching in their help for this effort would be great. and if ps3 and 360 fanboys get more competative in this, it would force both sides to try and fold as much as possible.
which in turn would speed up research
assuming that this update doesnt trigger a plague of red rings of death
If you dig a little bit deeper you can find in the internets and on the folding at home website the GPU can outperform an CPU chip anytime... M$ saying that the 360 can outfold ps3 via GPU isn't a good comparison... lets put the Cell vs The 360's cpu.... and then compare the GPU's of each.
Microsoft sure knows how to light the fire under it's minions!!
That was the ENQUIRER, not the INQUIRER!
This happens almost every time. LOL!
.. so why shouldnt they help cure it?
..I didn't read it all properly, sorry, but still, at least we're in agreement. ;)
really isnt it about helping this cientific proyect and now a stupid war on how much any machine can do more than another??
We buy consoles to play, think we can discuss about games in one or another but start a fanboy war for something like this??
pretty stupid
MS knows if they start folding at home that all your machines will receive the rings of death. The 360 is a very *****ty design from an electrical engineering standpoint. The machine will over-heat if you run it all day.
Stop generalising please. Most gamers have no problems with their 360's overheating, and therefore will have no problem run it all day for folding@home.
Microsoft, put up or shut up!
You folks can debate all day long on hypotheticals and all, but at the end of the day, you're all blowing smoke up your own butts.
Microsoft isn't going to release ANY folding software for the 360, count on it.
So their statements are they equivalent of "mine is bigger than yours, but I'm not showing it to you".
So until they drop their drawers, it's all bull!!
I say that if anyone want to see the difference between the Ps3 and the X360, the only thing he/she has to do is to look at GTHD, and look at ForzaMS2, it's obvious that Gt looks much, much better, so the machine that presents better graphics, probabliy can perform better in folding too.
Really? Thats funny cuz Ive ran my 360 for almost a whole 48 hours once, and I usually leave it on to listen to music with. Guess what, it has never overheated or given me a RROD.
You do know the failure rate for 360s peaked at about 6% right? Mostly with just the launch consoles. You sony fans sure know how to stretch something out for months and months dont you? Anyways, have fun waiting for a decent game to land on PS3.
there is a reason on the ps3... this has been explained by the f@h team themselves.
"look at GTHD, and look at ForzaMS2"
That's a stupid bit of reasoning. That's like someone saying the reason so many multi-format games look better on the 360 is because the 360 is more powerful, or compare Gears of War to Resistance and say the 360 is more powerful because the graphics are better.
I'm also not even going to list all the things that GTHD isn't doing but Forza 2 is, or how Polyphony are very talented at getting the colour, tone and lighting just right in their games, since that's not what this topic is about.
As it stands, ATI's lastest GPUs are faster than Cell for Folding, and nVidia's GPUs are very poor in comparison. So if they bring Folding to the 360, they can make use of the ATI GPU, hence provide better performance than the PS3 with Cell.
OK OK OK, I agree with a post a little higher that says
Sony: nice folding i idea, really top notch, but put out some games ok?
Micro: (like stated above) Put up or shut up. Because anyone can say in theory or in our calculations or this and that, we say the xbox can fold and fold BETTER then the PS3, but we dont have a 360 folding right now to prove it at the moment... BUT ITS TRUE?!?
Ok, so to settle this? Easy... Put the folding on the 360 and compare it to a ps3 folding RIGHT next to it, and see the out come, if the Cell *****s on the 360 then shut it.... If the 360 *****s on the PS3 then shut it... ALSO, if this does come out for 360, please lets not get confuse and compare all the folding out put of the 360 with the PS3 because there are more 360's out there, and i know if some Micro fan boy see's that and starts running at the mouth alotta people gonna get upset...
Also, one real question, does the folding@home on the PS3 have access to all 8 processors ( i think its
thank you.
READ the article again.
It wasn't MS saying the 360 may run folding better than the PS3, it was the Inquirer!
This is stupid. Its a known fact that 360's gpu is more powerful than PS3's but only by a small margin. Its also known that PS3's processor is better suited for tasks like this and would stomp the 360 in a folding competition. Its so stupid to argue about this. It is not even what the systems are designed for. If the 360 is so much more powerful than ps3, than why are companies praising the PS3 and saying it has "unlimited" potential? Already its games are on par with 360 games.
"Put up or shut up...."
Why should MS put up or shut up? It wasn't MS saying Folding may run better than the PS3 on the 360, IT WAS THE INQUIRER!
READ IT AGAIN, but properly this time. :)
The same old limited logic
...that you read SummerGamer's posts above, especially the quotes from the Folding@Home website and what ATI's GPUs can do for Folding.
Then come back into the discussion. :)
"the game still looks better than any game the ps3 and the 360 have untill now...yes better than Gears of war"
That's your opinion only, and you are CLEARLY in the minority, both amounst gamers and reviewers.
'props to SummerGamer'
Agreed, excellent post
it came from the Inquirer, so... i wouldn't put to much trust in it.
Funny thing is the ATI Xenon is not the new R600 HD series... unless you found a way to upgrade your XENON to the HD2800XTX!!! PLEASE SHOW US!!!
"As it stands, ATI's lastest GPUs are faster than Cell for Folding, and nVidia's GPUs are very poor in comparison. So if they bring Folding to the 360, they can make use of the ATI GPU, hence provide better performance than the PS3 with Cell."
If you read over the material at the Folding@Home site, though, you'll see that the GPU client is forced to repeatedly perform some calculations because it is unable to do random memory access due to the streaming nature of the GPU.
So, yes, the GPU can do more flops, but then again it has to do more flops to achieve the same amount of real work done.
Xenos could make a decent folding engine, but it won't outperform Cell in terms of its overall flexibility or performance across a greater variety of workloads.
Also, if the 360 is churning out calculations using Xenos, it won't have anything left for doing the kind of visualization that the PS3 does while folding.
Which is, to be sure, a minor nit. A major nit is that the 360 is unlikely to survive having that kind of heat load placed on it for days at a time without rest.
Below is what the creator of the Folding@Home project had to say about the PS3 and Xbox 360 folding.
My opinion, MS, go ahead make my day. Listen to the howling fans on the 360's then enjoy the silence of the Red Ring of Death. However, this is research to cure terrible diseases and anyone willing to donate the cpu cycles and kW's to operate the project is doing a good thing.
http://www.pro-g.co.uk/news/03-05-2007-5386.html
for the link impaired
Xbox 360 not as useful as PS3 for Folding@home
By Will Freeman - 03/05/2007 - 10:24am GMT
Microsoft's console not as capable as PS3 when it comes to folding proteins.
Vijay Pande, creator of the Folding@home project, which harnesses the power of networked Playstation3s across the world to carry out essential research into Alzheimer's Disease, has revealed to Pro-G that the 360 is of limited help to his work.
After being asked if he thought the power of the 360 could be useful, he said: "Possibly, although the cell processor in the PS3 is much more powerful for our calculations than the CPU in the Xbox 360."
Giving details of how the power of the Playstation3 was useful to his research, Pande explained: "We are simulating key processes in protein folding and misfolding in Alzheimer's Disease. PS3's are performing aspects of these simulations, and doing so about 20 times faster than a typical PC."
The program has seen a strong uptake by PS3 owners with more than 250,000 unique users having registered, delivering nearly 400 teraflops of computing power. Total computing power at a single moment is now recorded at 700 teraflops, more than double the capacity of the network before PlayStation 3 joined the program.
There is still no word on any plans for the folding@home project to embrace the Xbox 360, but we're sure that many Xbox 360 owners would be more than willing to help out such a good cause.
although Vijay Pande, creator of the Folding@home project, stated that the 360 would be of limited help with the project, reading into this proves otherwise...
The architecture of the GPU on the 360 really does suit some of the types of calculation the simulation requires (since GPUs work only for certain simulations and CPU's are still just as important).
If it were a race between CPU's, the PS3 would knock out the 360 and if it were a race between GPU's the 360 would knock out the PS3.
Having a powerful GPU for games of course is a major plus (unless the game is just crap that is) but do not discount the CPU becuase the last time I checked, both consoles have good CPU's and if they were not a requirement then they would come with an old Z80 in there and be done with it.
If a really good game gets released as an exclusive on either PS3 or 360 then no amount of horsepower is going to get it to go on the other platform so LONG LIVE EXCLUSIVES!
....and about the "rings of death", maybe Folding@home could start a sim that looks into finding cures for Microsoft and that problem and the PS3 community could help. awwwww a happy ending.
M can shut the hell up. Stop trying to steak stuff that is on the PS3 and stop trying to act as if you no more than anyone else.
I would love to see the Xblows 270 do folding at home. They have a huge install base. And it would help.
Also I would like to see the aftermath, of leaving an Xblows 270 on 24/7 crunching data. It would be a white blob of crap melted to someones entertainment system.
... think it's cool to refer to other consoles with childish insults?
Can't you see how stupid it is?
...Vijay Pande is only talking about the CPUs in this interview. We all know Cell is better than the 360 CPU for arithmetic, so that's no surprise.
What Vijay Pande hasn't discussed is the GPU, as discussed in this thread so far and by Pob above.
-
"Funny thing is the ATI Xenon is not the new R600 HD series..."
Neither is the ATI GPUs giving the great results seen so far for Folding.
http://folding.stanford.edu/FAQ-ATI.html
"We now support serveral classes of GPU boards, including X1600, X1800, and X1900 class GPU's from ATI. At the launch, we supported X1900 cards only. X1800 cards do not provide the performance seen in X1900's and so we strongly recommend X1900 class cards (although we now officially support X1800). X1900 and X1800 cards are actually quite different -- they have different processors (R520, R530 vs. the R580 [in the X1900 series]). The R580 makes a huge difference in performance -- its 48 pixel shaders are key, as we use pixel shaders for our computations."
The ATI GPU within the 360 with it's 48 unified shaders which can act as either pixel or vertex shaders is therefore easily on par with the performance seen for other ATI GPUs.
So please, do explain why a R600 is necessary for geat performance.
Enough with the stupid "360 will die" comments. I have never had a problem running my 360 over long periods, and at least one of my RL friends has his 360 running almost 24/7. There is no heat problem here. As usual, PS3 fanboys have some extremely scewed misconceptions of the 360.
ive had 6 360s in the past 2 years and all of them have died on me because i ran them all day long. i live in scotland so outside heat is definetly not an issue. micorosofts *****ty design is and Aoxomamoxo where did u get that 6% figure from i would love to get a link to that i mean even the micro*****s bigwigs have refused to say what rate those white boxes are dropping like flies at
Too bad my Ti 83 calculator has more games than the ps3.
Drol it goes both way and wow how can u base a console that has about 5 or 6 months out with one that has a year a head. it's real pointless. and finally all this person is doing is hyping u guys up to go an fight over which is better. but in my opinion the only reason Xbox is doing good is because sony released late. most of the exclusive went both ways now. and most of xbox fan were ps fans that got tire of waiting for ps3 so that goes to tell you.
Hahahaha Id love to see this happen, X360 can barely stand some 1 playing it for few hours a day without brakeing down, what the hell do you ppl think it will do if its kept 24/7 on?
Offcourse you dont need to keep it on that much, but still more than normaly. Maybe if Microsoft would fix the problem but now they are only laughin because the consumers even agree to buy the system over and over again after multible faulty ones.
Oh come oon F@H give those XO users a chance to yet broke more of their consoles!
i dnt get y the f*** evry1 is like oooo the xbox im so exiting that alls i ever do is go around having and o r g y about is n the sme to u ps3 lovers just buy a f***in console n play don't moan or brag
Xbox360 might not be capable of DX10 but it certainly is on par with anything PS3 does. And how do you know Cell is best when it comes to number crunching and multi processing? Sony?
Don't talk out of your ass if you don't the advantages and disadvantages. I don't know what any of the tech talk means so I stay quite and don't make a fool out of my self.
God, there are so many idiots here it scares me that these idiots will run our country in a few years...
Hahahaha Id love to see this happen, X360 can barely stand some 1 playing it for few hours a day without brakeing down, what the hell do you ppl think it will do if its kept 24/7 on?
Offcourse you dont need to keep it on that much, but still more than normaly. Maybe if Microsoft would fix the problem but now they are only laughin because the consumers even agree to buy the system over and over again after multible faulty ones.
Oh come oon F@H give those XO users a chance to yet broke more of their consoles!
Wait a minute...now Crap60 fanboys are going gaga over f@home? What happened to who cares, we have more games....go fold your PS3.
Whatever...who cares, stop beating your chests and go get a life.
My God can beat up your God
My dad can beat up your dad
My car is faster than your car
My clothes are better than your clothes
My girl is hotter than your girl
My grill cooks better than your grill
Please, all of you....shut the FRACK up allready
Im with you on the more devices the better. But Microsoft needs to stop talkin and start doing. You say your xbox runs circles around the PS3 then stop talking $*** and do it. Plus if the GPU is better for folding why wouldn't ps3 use theirs? Just a question
Are you serious? It's the CPU that does the crunching!!! Not the GPU! THE GPU (Graphics processing unit) is only used for... GRAPHICS!!
i am a *****got
This is kind of like the media putting their own spin on a piece of news by reporting only the facts to support their idea.
You read much of the information on the folding@home website. That is much more than most of these idiots do. Here is where you made a mistake though. The PS3 is the king of the hill @ folding. True that the ATI GPU in the 360 could work way faster than the cell processor, nobody is disputing that. The glaring fact against what you say is part of your own post. You mention the types of calculations that the three basic processor types can handle. An CPU is the slowest but most general purpose. An GPU is the fastest but very limited in it's calculations. The PS3 takes the middle road and that is why according to the folding@home website they made the PS3 the benchmark for performance.
The 360 could produce more floating-point operations/second than the PS3 but they would be SEVERELY limited in which Work Units they could use. That is why it isn't and will not be on the 360 anytime in the near future if ever.
P.S. For all of the idiots talking about the Xenon, go play in the road, nobody including the 360 fanboys on here are talking about anything but it's GPU. The xenon while being a triple core monster is still architecturally a basic CPU.
How do we know Cell is best when it comes to crunching? How about from the actual folding@home people, who have said that they have no plans to make a dev for Xbox. If the 'box was better, they'd know it, and they'd make one.
Folding@homeexp erts>Inquirer
Good job, you have finally admited it. You are gay. Not that there is anything wrong with that.....no, not at all.
MS are the biggest Sh*t talkers... There a little worried because they know the power of the PS3. You can try with all the tech specs you can use but your not fooling anyone but yourselves....360 is garbage.
Are you kidding me you ass hole?? The worst thing he said was "I’m not quite sure yet whether we’re seeing real tangible results from the PlayStation 3 Folding@Home initiative." When stanford has been saying what an incredible boost in computing power the PS3 has been for folding @ home... I can't believe that any legitimate newspaper will let some corporate ass hole spew lies and misinformation. Whatever happened to journalism? Same goes for QJ for posting this shi t. But obviously, these articles create controversy, and more hits, and more ad money...
The x360 would MELT if it was running the gpu as hard as PS3 users are running theirs... That's a proven fact.
Someone please tell me what the 360's processor does in floating point. PS3 is 204 GFLOPS.
scr.ew you then. I wont fold if you think were not seeing "tangible" results.
Im wasting energy and money for some d!ck head to say were doing it for nothing.
Even though you havent lost a console or have had problems with it doesnt change the fact that very alarming ammount has. Microsofts said 3% couldnt be more far from truth because the failure rate might be even 30% Many ppl have lost 5 consoles 5 FREAKING CONSOLES and some 1 actualy had lost 10 and countless ppl are loosing em everyday. XO elite doesnt show bright future eather since even part of those machines have had exactly SAME problems.
And thats not all, MS seems to be screwing up with their customer services and varranties too. Wtf they are talking about when claiming that varrantie disapears when user changes makeing it imbosible to get the console fixed.
Face it! the X360 has pathetic reliability while Wii and Ps3 dont seem to suffer from any problems.
who the hell cares which GAMING machine can fold more...ie...spend your electricity so a pharmacutical company can make a million from curing a disease one day. Fanboys make me laugh.you give a company several hundreds of dollars for a system and the company gets free advertising.no..no.actually you are giving them several hundred dollard for a machine and the right to advertise for them.LOL. at the end of the dayall the systems are great.everybody rips off everybody to one extent or another. personally i dont care bout the tech jargon.I understand it but dont care. I made my decision solely on the familiarity of the controller.if the 360 had a PS style controller id get one of them too.as it is ..i think the 360's controller feels like a bastard child of the N64 and dreamcast controllers. but thats me.
I remember when i based my console decision on which launched with a star wars title LOL. what happened to those days..none of the mlaunched w/ SW title.That used to be Nintendos thin
The GPU IS used for processing on Folding@Home, didn't you read the links in this thread from the folding@home website?
Why can't guys like you get it into your thick little head that the processing power of a GPU is not limited to just graphics but can be put to other uses (such as physics).
Yes, someone else sees the light.
Crap60
Trash60
Redringofdeath6 0
Burnmyhousedown 60
BendmeoverBilla ndnickelanddime metodeath60
PeterMoorespinc ontrolcompletea ssclowncomment6 0
My5thconsole60
MyIneed2buyanew oneeveryyear60
MyHalo2.560
ForzaGTripoff60
Brought 2 u by BubbaGump Shramp Corporation
Yes, someone else sees the light.
Crap60
Trash60
Redringofdeath6 0
Burnmyhousedown 60
BendmeoverBilla ndnickelanddime metodeath60
PeterMoorespinc ontrolcompletea ssclowncomment6 0
My5thconsole60 MyIneed2buyanew oneeveryyear60
MyHalo2.560 ForzaGTripoff60
Brought 2 u by BubbaGump Shramp Corporation
NVIDIA acquired 3DFX when it was on the verge of bankruptcy
"If the 'box was better, they'd know it, and they'd make one".
Quit the childish "if this then why" logic. There are many reasons why they chose the PS3, just as there are many reasons why they haven't looked at other consoles YET.
x1900 class ATI GPUs significantly outperform Cell for Folding performance (see post from SummerGamer), so it's fair to assume that the more advanced ATI GPU in the 360 will also provide similar if not better performance to the ATI GPUs on the PC, therefore better performance compared to the PS3.
Giantexternalpo werbrickanditst illoverheats60
Icannotchoosemy ownheadset60
$180fora120GBharddrive60
IcannotripmyCD'sorDVD'sandputitonmyha rddrive60
Icanonlyputmedi aIbuyfromCrap60 liveonmy$180harddrive60
7yearoldDVDtech nologylimmiting metoapaltry9GB6 0
Microtransactio nforalmostanyth ingextra60
Havenotmadeapro fitin7+years60
Notonlyhavenotm adeapro fit60but5billion+inthew hole60
CopiedPS2'suprightoronit'sside60
Triedbutfailedt ocopySony'scontroller60
HDDVDsoontobeob soleteaddon60
"The 360 could produce more floating-point operations/second than the PS3 but they would be SEVERELY limited in which Work Units they could use. That is why it isn't and will not be on the 360 anytime in the near future if ever."
So why is it being used on ATI GPUs on the PC then? Why bother if it's as limited as you suggest? And enough of the use of words like "SEVERELY limited", because none of us have any figures to know what percentage of the work this represents.
The fact is, the folding@home splits the project up into work units, and these units are sent to each client for processing. But the pool is never ever empty, so whichever unit is being processed by a client, it is making a valuable contribution to the WHOLE project. So one type of work unit is not more important than another!
Therefore to get the most out of each client, the team ensure that each client are provided with the type of units they can process the BEST.
ATI's GPUs can still process ALL of the units, but only some of them will benefit significantly from using a GPU. The same for the PS3, only some units will benefit from using Cell (only more compared to the GPU), and a PC can process all the units equally well.
Hence it's no point wasting the PS3 by giving it units to work that can be processed just as well on a PC, best to give those to a PC and use the PS3 to process units which is can do much faster than a PC. Likewise on the GPUs, it no point wasting resources giving the GPU units to process which would be better done on a PC or PS3, again it's better to give the GPU the units it can process the fastest.
So THAT is the limitation they talk about. It's a limitation in terms of getting the best of each client (PC, PS3, GPU), not a limitation in the clients themselves.
If they even try to put F@H on the 360, they will have so many broken 360's flowing, any profit they had a chance of getting will be out the window.
At least when this thread started we seemed to have a few adults in the discussion. Now all we have are spotty faced kids calling a console names. LOL, it must be way past your bed times.
The more folding the better, i prefer PS3 but I'll be glad if 360 starts folding, because its all comes down too one thing, diseases being cured.
Nvidia GPUs have some "technical limitations" that make it run MUCH MUCH slower than ATI GPUs (at folding proteins ONLY...)
Well i hate to burst your 360 fanboy's bubble, but in a previous article on QJ the founder for Folding@Home even said that there is really much that the 360 has to offer to Folding.It's on the site all you have to do is read.Besides this was an interview that the Inquirer had with Perter Moore.Xbox promo guy.In the previous article on here it's the actual founder of the project.Who's words i'd believe more.....hmmmmm...tough one...Not!!!!360 had a year head start on sony, they've had plenty of time to implement something like this.Truth is they just didn't care about something like Folding until Sony took it up.
Liar!
6 360s in the last 2 years? (despite the fact that the 360 has been out for 1.5 years). BS!
If you have to lie to make a point, then you have no point at all.
Nice that you had to share... Now go away now... off with your "extremely happy and gay" friends...
Since when hasa little smack talk become strictly a spotty faced kids thing?
If you ask me, generalizing humor/toilet humor is more imature than what I said.
You sir are a closed minded fool
It's fun to spot some banter around once in a while...you should try it.
And to even classify this thread as a few adults in discussion is pathetic.
Clearly, the ONLY reason QJ posted this thread is to start a fanboy War.
Gods, you are gullible McFly
there is really much that the 360 has to offer to Folding.
I am sure you meant....
not much that the trash60 has to offer to folding.
That is what he said.
great post. Thanx dude, u made my day ;D
Drol says "quit the childish 'if this then why' logic"... you mean like Microsoft saying "But when compared to the GPU, the Xbox 360 GPU would probably run in circles around Cell CPU"? Or how about Drol's own "..so it's fair to assume that the more advanced ATI GPU in the 360 will also provide similar if not better performance to the ATI GPUs on the PC, therefore better performance compared to the PS3." --Sounds like more "if this then why", if you ask me. --Come on, Microsoft started the silliness. If the 360 is so much better, then they need to offer their technical resources to Folding@Home to make a 360 version of the software to PROVE it. Their lack in doing so for so long really lays a lot of weight to the concept that either A) their machine is really NOT better capable (at least at Folding), or B) they are afraid their defect/overheat rate will increase even more than it currently is due to people running 360's for extended hours.
ahah
@@@@@@OMFG theres a new Xbox 360 @@@@@@
XBOX 360 : super elite FOLDOMATIC
This new 360 has every feature of elite and more !!!
The Super Elite Foldomatic has F@H capabilities !!! this newly and highly well designed piece of shiz can do folding @ home. But dont worry the red ring of death will never be seen this new 360 has Quad CPU+GPU hydromatic cooling created bye GAYtachii gaytanement INC. this will promise u a good 6 hrs of life in youre 360 before it craps OUT !!!! HOLY CRAP
Also exclusive to this 4th but not last installment of teh 360 we have also added 20 more GB so all u morons can look at the size and say hay i want one
OTHER INFORMATION:
The Super Elite Foldomatic cost $600 but dont wrry u can trade in ur old premuims and elites for this one and save 20$ fr ur crap !!! HOLY SHIITTTTT
Warenttteee:
we GAYsoft are not responsible if ur ***** gets f@cked up and overheating is very common with our crappy system and please to get a Xtra 15$ go buy VISTA DRM the GAY way to go ~~~~!!!!!
hahahhahahahahh aa dude that is hilarious on so many levels ahhahahah
If the 360 gets folding@home, more power to them. The only caveat would be "don't leave it on for more than 4 hours!"
If so many *****ing 360s ring of fire to death, why the hell would they want this on their system?
A PS3 can run folding@home for 2 days straight and not have a single problem.
Maybe this is secretly a Sony strategy to get everyone's 360s to commit suicide and have the "loyal" fans to get sad and buy a shiny new PS3 instead
That'd be awesome!!!
P.S. I'm getting tired of bias.
Everyone criticizes Kuturagi for crazy quotes.
Here's some of Peter Moore's.
"I’m not quite sure yet whether we’re seeing real tangible results from the PlayStation 3 Folding@Home initiative"
Saying that when we have delivered almost a teraflop of data.
"Because HD-DVD is the superior format" when referring to Blu-Ray and HD-DVD
Yup, 1080P sure does suck balls (sarcasm)
If PS3 fans get this defensive over something like Folding@Home, they really must have just about NOTHING to do on their precious PS3
first of all ur gay second your a ***** a fat ass ***** noob *****
Qj u guys are retarded, you just want some fanboy flame war started when you allow a topic like this posted, 120 comments already that shows how many people will get heated, now you block us from all uniting and flaming jack thompson obviously for legal reasons but why the hell would you wanna make a topic just to pit every1 against each other? .... regardless Sony is doing Folding at Home and if X360 were to try do it, they wouldn't but they would look like N00bs trying to get into sum thing they clearly don't belong.
This came from the inquirer, ofcourse it can't.
... the one missing the point. The funny thing is it is a point that you made yourself earlier. Sorry I did not spell it out for you but the fact that they would have to talk to M$ and work out an agreement, code the program due to slight differences in the GPU's, and then do extensive testing to avoid any problems down the road makes it very unlikely to ever be done.
Is that easier for you to understand?
Motorstorm is only using 15-20% of PS3 power. LOL.
http://www.qj.net/index.php?pg+49+aid+92150
(change all the plus signs into equal sign)
that the xbox360 would not do much to folding @home, so they aren't too interested in calling up MS. The article was posted here a week ago. Peter moore is taking smack. How about Peter Moore idea is too get all the xbox to show ring of death after 4hours and then get the same people to by the elite version, pumping up more numbers for MS.
The GPU can only do a very limited set of specialized folding instructions. Take at look at the GPU power, it's much more than any PS3, PC, or MAC; but it's VERY limited on what can be done.
PCs, MACs, and PS3s are much more versatile.
It's really funny that MicroSux is contradicting what F@H has been saying... that PS3 has more than doubled the F@H processing power and has been invaluable in research.
Lastly, compare GPU to GPU and CPU to CPU not GPU to CPU, it's like comparing oranges to apples!
MicroSux will lie through their teeth, just like when they say their software has been through numerous "tests" to ensure security and operational stability.
this looks like it could be the sega genisis all over again... for the PS3 and how the genisis sucked so badly... i went into gamestop today they said they had to send PS3's back to sony because they were over stocked... and they only had 1 wii. lol lol PS3
haha whats next nintendo caliming that if folding were running on wii it would beat both ps3 and 360 hahaha
haha whats next nintendo caliming that if folding were running on wii it would beat both ps3 and 360 hahaha
haha whats next nintendo caliming that if folding were running on wii it would beat both ps3 and 360 hahaha
doesnt anyone find it interesting that everyone in the 360 community at first was like who cares i got more games go fold your ps3 and ms didnt take any interest in this untill sony did something and now the owners and ms think they can outfold ps3? Honestly ms until you show the entire gaming community feasible results that prove it then shut your mouth. Put up or Shut up. Also how much do you guys wanna bet that folding isnt going to make it to xbox and stay there? If it does i guarantee people will start having problems with their 360 overheating like I did. Oh and it also makes you look like an idiot when you say "I’m not quite sure yet whether we’re seeing real tangible results from the PlayStation 3 Folding@Home initiative." when Stanford is praising ps3s cell and even runs a bunch of them in the lab 24/7
its obvious that wii is more popular than ps3 and 360 but name a buncha phat games for will....... their arent b/c everyone i know thats gotten a wii has it sitting at home collecting dust including me.
:O:O:O:O:O:O:O: O:O:O:O:O:O:O:O : O:O:O:O:O:O:O:O : O:O:O:O:O:O:O:O : O:O:O:O:O:O::O:O:O:O:O:O:O: O NEVER! NEVER! NEVER! NEVER! NEVER!
That site is a joke, it cant even be a credible source. I remember that there was a rumor "confirmation" made by those idiots when in fact wasnt even close to the truth
Wasnt that site the one who posted a report claiming PS3 was downgraded because the RSX was downgraded? Not to mention that their spelling is no greater than a 10-year old
"MicroSux...etc"
Isn't it about time you grew up?
As for Motorstorm. *Yawn* Every generation we get the same comments from devs saying their game is only using 15-20% of the console. IT'S NOTHING NEW except to someone as young as YOU! It's old because it's a fact that it takes YEARS for devs to really push a console to the fullest, and even then, when gamers have moved onto a new generation, there is still untapped power within the last gen.
But then, you wouldn't know that, since this is all so new to you. ;)
"you mean like Microsoft saying "But when compared to the GPU, the Xbox 360 GPU would probably run in circles around Cell CPU""
*Sigh* This is what irritates me most on forums, guys like you who spend very little time to read things PROPERLY and yet argue over what you assume you've read.
Where did MS say this damonous? If you READ the article again and you would realise that it was the INQUIRER and NOT MICROSOFT who stated this. Go on, read it.
"Come on, Microsoft started the silliness...."
No they didn't, so everything else you've said is pointless, because it's based upon the assumption that MS made these claims. But as I've stated, it was the Inquirer, so MS don't have anything to prove here!
So please READ articles properly before responding next time. Thank you.
I was responding to your claim that a GPU is "SEVERELY LIMITED" for Folding. The point I was making is that whilst there are less types of calculations it can be put to use for compared to the PS3 or PC, the contribution it makes is every bit as valuable to the overall project. Hence that's why ATI GPUs are being used on the PC.
So your arguement that Folding is not on the 360 because GPUs are severly limited in the work units they could be used for is really not true, overwise it would not be used on the PC.
So the lack of Folding on the 360 is due to OTHER factors besides the GPU.
Is that easier for you to understand too? ;)
Oh my, you really didn't like that did you! Didn't like being called an immature kid. Well good, because you deserved it, and so I'm pleased I hit the target.
Sure banter is fun when it's appropriate, and I do 'try it' sometimes, except I don't do it as an attack on a console or game, and especially not with childish names. You should try THAT in future, if you can.
Ah, but of course, it's the weekend. :)
"Qj u guys are retarded"
Did anyone force you here? No! So if you feel so bad about QJ. STFU and FO to some other website.
"Honestly ms until you show the entire gaming community feasible results that prove it then shut your mouth"
Can't you read? It is the Inquirer who said the 360 may outperform the PS3 for folding, it was not MS.
Geezus guys, it's all there in the article, READ IT and stop jumping to conclusions.
It's still possible that RSX is not running at the speed first quoted at E3 2005 (550Mhz). Because last year, Sony dropped the speed of RSX from the offical specs, and it hasn't returned.
Many speculate that RSX is now probably running at 500Mhz.
Microsoft is only doing this for PR (Public Relations) - anything ps3 can do xbox 360 can do - that is what this is all about microsoft and xbox 360 fans can care less about folding@home why? because folding@home has nothing to do with entertainment, so microsoft can say that they can do folding@home but the chances of microsoft actually doing anything about folding@home is slim to none, and that is why with 1080p and bluray microsoft did say those things are not important for videogames and so far microsoft have not been proven wrong because 97% percent of games are running 720p, and so far no developer outside sony exclusive games have complained about a lack of storage space on DVD9, If there was a problem developers all over the place would be talking about it, just like developers all over the place are saying the nintendo wii is not powerful enough, so microsoft is only doing this because no one can say that 1080p or movie playback on-disc is not available for xbox 360, and as for HDMI, I don't remember microsoft ever saying HDMI was not necessary, notice the Xbox 360 Elite does not have a HD-DVD or Blu-ray disc drive built-in but it does have HDMI, sony have yet to prove microsoft wrong.
Microsoft bull***** PR babble directly contradicts what the makers of the Folding @ Home program.
GG Moore, come again.
Y'know I may just be another joe that doesn't know very much about technical specifications. But I'm pretty sure a group of stanford scientists responsible for the entire F@H project know more than anyone in this "informed" group of bloggers. If anyone knew anything that the Stanford people I can guarantee to you that they wouldn't be sitting on their arse reading Qj.net articles about an Inquirer magazine. They would probably be developing something to make the rest of our lives easier. OBVIOUSLY F@H chose PS3 for many reasons: some known, some unknown. Flexibility, speed, and efficiency are just things that we can gather.
Basically what I'm really trying to say is just relax guy, let the F@H people do their job and save lives. I'm sure they'd rather focus on analyzing results from what they've released so far then spend time tinkering w/ GPU coding on a CONSOLE.
Dude, do you read these posts at all? Or do you just skim through them looking for ways to flaunt you
Not too long ago, I read an internet article about the fact that some people had problems running the GPU code on some PC cards. Most of the problems was with the Catalyst driver, dll and so on, but then the article was also talking about heat dissipation. People with cheaper cards (I think it was Sapphire brand, but don't quote me) had smaller heatsinks and would freeze while folding. Shutting down, waiting until cool and rebooting was ok. Some had to run with case open. The interesting part is that they were saying you could possibly run GPU and CPU on a PC at the same time, but they would have to have case wide open and mega fan blowing in. Where it became interesting, is the fact that at the end, they said you could not run any folding on a GPU console because heatsinks would never be able to take the heat out because they were too small.
I cannot find this article anymore. It was likely a bit old because they were talking about being able to fold only on a X1900, and today you can fold on the X1800.
My two cent: I'm running folding at home on my PC and my PS3, and in both case, nothing is running hot at all. So I'm assuming GPU may give out way more heat than CPU... That's why we may never see any coding done for our consoles...
...r rampant fanboyism. If you would take the time to read a post without your 360 goggles on you would see that most of the people that you are arguing with don't really disagree with you much at all. As a matter of fact in my first post I not only did not bash the 360 and it's GPU but I said that it could easily produce more flops than the cell. You seem to like taking one or two sentences out of a post as fodder for your fanboy cannon without even looking to see what the true tone of a post is all about.
What? You don't believe me? Look up the page a little bit and see the post that you sent to kniteowl. The proof is in the pudding my friend and you are a fanboy.
There are three systems in this generation to choose from. That doesn't mean that you have to hate the others, though. They all have unique features, pros, and cons. They all have something to offer. They can all be fun, too. Quit being a fanboy. You seem smart enough to have a lot of allies. But a lot of people, myself included, don't want to talk to a rabid fanboy even if he agrees with us.
Fanboy? Of what? I don't even have a next-gen console! I simply take an interest in technology and games, so occasionally I'm tempted to buy into it, such as my PS2 and XBox last gen and possibly a console this gen, but not yet, not until a games grabs me as a 'must have'. For me, ALL the next gen consoles (and PC) are worthy of gamers attention, because there are good reasons to recommend all of them.
You pointed out my response to kniteowl. Yes, I did assume he was speaking from PS3 biased perspective, but he correct me, and I immediately apologised (strange behaviour for a fanboy wouldn't you think?).
It seems to me you're one of those individuals who simply hates anyone to disagree with any point he makes, however big or small. Well too bad. If you want a world of yes men, one where everyone nods in agreement with you all the time, then I suggest an internet forum is probably not the right place for you.
yeah thats why rockstar is having problems with gta4 for 360 cuz theyre complaining about storage space
drol youre right i didnt thoroughly read the article which i should have before posting. So since the inquirer said that it has no credibility what so ever. Thanks for a good laugh qj
You both sound like intelligent people, so please calm down. Ok? :)
That said, having read through both of your posts, I do agree more with EM. :|
Sorry Folding Junkie, but in your first post you suggested that the only reason why Folding at Home is not on the 360 is because of the GPU being limited in the units it can process. In contrast, EM says this is not the reason otherwise they wouldn't have bothered with the GPU client on the PC, hence he says it's for reasons other than the GPU that Folding is not currently on the 360, and I agree.
I don't think that makes him a 360 fanboy any more than you saying the PS3 is king of the hill for folding makes you a PS3 fanboy.
So come on guys, if you're going to attack, then attack the REAL fanboys on these forums, not each other.
"yeah thats why rockstar is having problems with gta4 for 360 cuz theyre complaining about storage space"
This is a distortion of the truth. A PS magazine asked them if the lack of a built-in HDD and DVD was a limitation and the reply was "yep" (which turned into whole essays from idiots online). But they added that there are issues with BOTH consoles, which is nothing new or unexpected in multi-format game developement.
Game developement, or any software developement, is as much about problem solving as it is about design.
So of course the capacity of DVD is a limitation, just as the slow speed of Blu-ray was a limitation for Oblivion, hence the dev's solution was to repeat the same data across the disk to reduce the seek time.
I'm sure if a 360 magazine had asked Rockstar if the slow speed of Blu-ray and the 256MB memory split was a limitation, then the answer would have also been "yep" (followed up again online by fanboys trying to turn it into more than it actually is).
You are right, Drol. I should have said that IMHO this is the most glaring, but not only, reason for it's absence from the 360. I also had read most of the posts on his page and saw a few instances where EM had jumped the gun a little bit and
Damn browser keeps having focus issues and posting before I am done. Anyways...
You are right, Drol. I should have said that IMHO this is the most glaring, but not only, reason for it's absence from the 360. I also had read most of the posts on this page and saw a few instances where EM had jumped the gun a little bit and started going off about NVIDIA. ATI vs. NVIDIA fanboyism is just as irritating. One example was a post from Bel Z Bub where he stated "And just wait untill the folding software comes to NIVIDIA graphic boards..."
EM responded with:
"From the folding website (see SummerGamer's post below);
"Also, nVidia cards in general have some technical limitations beyond the number of pixel shaders which makes them perform poorly in our calculations."
All of what EM again said is true but he obviously did not read the part about WHEN IT BECOMES AVAILABLE to NVIDIA GPU's or else he just ignored it. Those are the reasons for my being a little to quick to take the offensive.
TO EM:
Drol is right. We are arguing so much that other people are taking notice. We never disagreed that much in the first place but I got offensive because it seems like you only read parts of my posts and those of others. I take offense to that normally. I did not spend to much time because then posts tend to get to long. Kind of like this one is becoming. So can we just agree to slightly disagree? I think that would be our best solution.
Forgive me if I seem to pick up on just a few points, but these are the ones that stood out.
"All of what EM again said is true but he obviously did not read the part about WHEN IT BECOMES AVAILABLE to NVIDIA GPU's or else he just ignored it."
Quite the opposite, that was the point I was responding to! The reason I responded is because there's an assumption being made that any GPU will offer great benefits to Folding, but that's not true for NVidia GPUs. They have already explained that they tried NVidia GPUs and found it offered poor performance for Folding (it's a similar comment you read from those using GPUs for physics). It's something about the design of the GPU which doesn't lend itself well to being used for other applications, hence Folding will not be coming to any PS3 class nVidia GPU (i.e G71 based). Hence it folding does comes to NVidia GPUs in future, it will not be for RSX for those reasons, and therefore not using the GPU on the PS3.
This is not about NVidia vs ATI btw, my current graphics card is still NVidia's 6800 ULTRA (old I know, but there's still some mileage left in it :)), and prior to that it was 3Dfx (Voodoo to Voodoo 3), but I do know that the design of ATI's GPUs allows devs to tap into it's power far better than they can on NVidia's GPUs, which for some reason has always been problematic.
"Drol is right. We are arguing so much that other people are taking notice."
Yes, that was a very good post from Drol (thanks Drol, you're right that we shouldn't be argueing like this).
"So can we just agree to slightly disagree? I think that would be our best solution."
Agreed. :)
Perhaps next time we'll get on much better, but until then, my apologies for getting annoyed earlier and attacking you, as I believe we agree far more than we disagree. :)
Point taken! That's all good and fine. Apparently Bel Z. Bub read more info on the high-performance FAQ page than you did, though. It clearly states under the updates section:
"November 2006 We have been making lots of updates to the GPU core. Some are to help the code run better (eg on multiple GPU's) and some are science-side updates.
December 2006 We have been looking into the ability to run Folding@home on nVidia G80's and have found a bug in the G80 driver. We have informed nVidia about it and are waiting for them to resolve it."
Now I realize that this is not the chipset that the RSX is based upon but it DOES show that the folding crew are working on other types of GPU's than just ATI and if there code is optimized enough it will show smaller, yet still worthwhile, increases even on other cards.
I do not know how much research you have done on the cell but it's architecture is similar to a GPU in that the SPE's act similar to multiple pipelines in a GPU. That is why more points are gained per day folding on a PS3 than even on an GPU. Speed increases and a fairly broad spectrum of workable computations make it the most useful to them RIGHT NOW. That does not mean that they won't write a new code for something else that will be even faster. That is the key. Folding is always evolving and they are always finding new ways to distribute their computing. To say that NVIDIA GPU's will never be used particularly after reading the whole FAQ is just ignoring the truth.
So, like you said, we do not disagree on much at all. But do not underestimate the team of scientists working on this project. They know there stuff and they know it well. They will get there GPU client working on NVIDIA, GPU's it may just take a while.
the 360 will actually explode, lets face it, the 360 is built by microsoft, world leader in major ***** ups, if microsoft ruled america it would be the same as Bush's presidency now, I.E SH1T!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!! f*ck off and make a more efficient console you sockbats
"December 2006 We have been looking into the ability to run Folding@home on nVidia G80's and have found a bug in the G80 driver. We have informed nVidia about it and are waiting for them to resolve it."
I did read that Folding Junkie, which is why I'm not disputing it at all, but I don't know why it's being brought up here when the G80 is not the G71/RSX seen in the PS3 (as you've said in your post). My comments are generally in relation to folding on the consoles, not the PC.
The problem with the NVidia GPUs exists for the G71 class and older, for which RSX is part of that. These are the GPUs which they say perform poorly for folding due to a number of issues. Therefore these are the GPUs they choose not to use for Folding. That's all I'm saying.
Hence it doesn't matter if the G80 or future NVidia GPUs offer incredible performance for folding and physics, this will be of benefit on the PC only, not the PS3.
But in relation to the G80 on the PC, I'm still sceptical because it was December 2006 that they said they'd informed NVidia of a bug in the driver, and yet here we are 6 months later still no news of any change there. Hence it seems to me that folding may need to wait until the next generation of GPUs from NVidia.
"To say that NVIDIA GPU's will never be used particularly after reading the whole FAQ is just ignoring the truth."
But I didn't say that at all! Everything I've said regarding folding and NVidia's GPUs has been in relation to the PS3 and G71/RSX, and yet I can't exclude the G80 because NVidia have been informed of issues but seem unwilling or unable to resolve them.
"So, like you said, we do not disagree on much at all. But do not underestimate the team of scientists working on this project. They know there stuff and they know it well. They will get there GPU client working on NVIDIA, GPU's it may just take a while."
Agreed, but like I said, I have no doubts about folding on other GPUs, and I have never doubted folding on future NVidia GPUs, my comments were generally about NVidia GPUs up to the G71/RSX on the PC/PS3, not their GPUs beyond that (although there is a question mark over the G80).
Seems there were misunderstandin gs on both sides between us. :)
My posts were never about saying "Nvidia sucks and ATI rulez", because that's not true. My posts were simply reporting the *current* situation of NVidia and ATI GPUs for folding.
As it stands *today*, NVidia's G71/RSX class GPUs perform poorly for folding, NVidia's G80 has issues which need to be resolved, and ATI GPU's work perfectly and offer excellent performance. This is what we have today.
So looking at NVidia's GPUs for folding from a PS3 perspective, RSX is not going to help much (if at all) because of poor performance. From a PC perspective, G80 *may* happen if the issues are resolved, but it's more likely that folding will need to wait until the next generation of GPUs from NVidia.
All my posts above were written in this context. I hope that makes it clearer. :)
Oh and, this is my last post for now.
See you in another thread sometime. ;)
EM
for me it's a general rule when i see negetive comments about a console, to look at who actually made the comment, if it's the rival/competitor, i completely ignore it in favour of reality, not accept the *****ty attempt to sell more units.
To sony : Good job with Folding@home, now release some bloody games
To Microsoft : Shut up, Put up, or release your own Folding@home software, IF then, the results show that the 360 can handle it better, THEN you can showboat, mindless tattle "ours can do better than that" is nothing more than childish playground taunts.
^^
that is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
If the 360 GPU is so much more powerful in Folding then MS should release a version of the calculating program for their console. =) Personally I think the Cell has way more processing power, but that's just me.
Spreading fear again...
This is all a bunch of bull!
1. Any current GPU can out perform any current CPU when it comes to graphics. That right there is a, NO "CRAP" statement.
2. The research devs at Stanford looked at BOTH SYSTEMS and chose the PS3 SPECIFICLY because it beats the 360 hands down for what they need to calculate the most.
So, regardless of what anyone THINKS the 360 can do, in the end it's doesn't do what Stanford needs.
So, NO! The 360 can not out fold the PS3.
Right, I'll eat my hat before believing a word this guy has to say. It's really pathetic they have to make things up to take a jab at PS3 for everything. Even for something as good as this initiative that PS3 is supporting. Microsoft sucks balls. I'll be so happy when they still lose the console war despite all their wealth and year head-start.
Haha nice post M$Hater, made me laugh.
Xblows 270!! +D
I say let M$ try, and seriously f*ck things up. So that Xbots can use their Xcrap 180 as a folding ironing board.
Xblows 360 Folding Elite: BBQ Edition
This new 360 has every previous feature + folding@home capability at maximum, which allows it to be used a BBQ grill. This is an exclusive feature to Xblows 360 only.
Nintendo Wii: Folding Ultra Edition
Includes all features + folding@home at 15mhz to cure itchy crotch.
Nintendo Wii: Folding Ultra with Mario Super Edition
Same features as folding Ultra Edition. Includes Super Mario 26.
this lil report is hilarious , they're actually saying that an ATI GRAPHICS ...and again GRAPHICS processing unit can beat the Cell processor that handles not only graphics but physics and AI to the tiniest detail and was under development by IBM and Toshiba since 2001
seriously the only downfall i see on the PS3 is that released too late .....the world is mined with X360 followers already