The dirt on Blu-ray lens (and how to clean it) |
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To allow the drive to read 25GB worth of info, the Blu-ray lens is placed very close to the disc surface - somewhere between 0.1 and 0.3 millimetres. Here's the potential problem. The Blu-ray disc is coated with Zircon, a substance almost as tough as diamond. When the disc heats up it could undergo warping. Since the Zircon is stiffer than Al Gore, the disc can only warp downwards towards the lens.
"Guess what happens when you run Zircon over glass at 2000rpm?" asks Jim. The heart-stopping answer: you're going to need a new Blu-ray lens. What does that mean to PS3 gamers? "Who can say? To be honest, I'd expect any drive or disc to fail in some way if it was being rattled about whilst trying to run and the Xbox 360 is a prime example, " says Jim. "But it'll be interesting to see how the PS3 is treated by the public when in use and to see what errors are thrown up by the Blu-ray drives. As I said, the tolerances in the Blu-ray system unlike HD DVD, donÂ’t leave much room for 'user error.'"
Okay, so he works for Blu-ray's arch enemy HD DVD, but it doesn't mean he's making this stuff up, right?
Anyway, now that you know the dirt, we bring you a video on cleaning your Blu-ray lens in case it gets dirty (not warped!). We are not suggesting you do this to your PS3. Even the video tutorial from Xtreme Tekno warns about the system's delicate nature. Sure the hands make it looks easy. The same way Martha Stewart makes you think renovating your kitchen will take only 20 minutes out of your life. That's a big "Ha!"
We're posting it as a reference material. Don't do this at home, kids. Unless you're filthy rich.
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Comments [refresh]
OK do u think sony is really that dum right wen i heard about the matreial i instantly new about heat and expanding this is a basic principle aplly heat to a solid it shall expand ofcource they came up with a way to overcome this problem
can you not read? the disc has to be 0.1 to 0.3 MILLIMETERS from the lense to read the data that the BluRay can supposedly read. So basically if you play a game for too long and it starts to warp you can say bye bye lense (and ps3). I personally cannot wait for this to start happening so we can all drive yet another nail into Sonys long overdue coffin. Enjoy while you can, *****es :)
But not as many as some people (Vietone) will be hoping. This articles been on different sites on the internet for a long time, and what it doesn't mention is that the zircon will usually only warp about 0.05mm.
Thats a usually, and an about though. There will be times when it will hit the 0.1mm and scratch the hell out of the lens.
they are making HD-dvd...
and nobody had problems with their lens so? so it's fake, they just want us to fear the blue-ray and go buy their hd-dvd, lol. Like I'd pay for 15gig instead of 25g/layers ( 2 layers normally ) lol.
ps: never trust someone you say thing are gonna be bad when the reality don't show it, ex: when no ps3 is suffering this, why should we trust him? second: never trust your ennemies ( dah ). and he work against bd...
"Like id pay 15gig instead of 25gig"...yea because youre sooo using all 25 gigs to do whatever you want with them right? Just like in previous articles, 75% of Resistance's BR disc was filler. Youre just an idiot who thinks bigger is better. And just wait, there will be many cases of BR lens scratching once a killer app for the PS3 comes out (maybe sometime in 2009, lol) and they play their ps3s for extended periods of time causing the discs to get hot.
I took my PS3 to a friends house and placed it in the worse place imaginable for a console.
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o188/vietone206/DSC01402.jpg
This is where I placed the PS3 all night with the fireplace on while we were playing because it was a cold week in Seattle, WA.
From 6PM to about 2AM we played RFoM Co-op, Ridge Racer 7, and Marvel Alliance.
The PS3 didn't freeze once and didn't give any problems with warping disks. We played it all night long with the fireplace gushing heat at the system, I placed my hand over it halfway in and it was hot, but not hot enough to melt any plastics and not hot enough to make the system crash or freeze.
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o188/vietone206/DSC01398.jpg
This is a picture of my setup which is pretty much what my friend has as well since he got the same projector and screen I purchased.
Whats the point in using my name when you obviously don't have it registered.
...gee, why not put it IN the fireplace next time, and come back and tell us how it still worked after 4 hours engulfed in flames.
We all know you're one of the biggest (if not dumbest) fanboys around on QJ, so who you do you think you're kidding?
The PS3 has it's fair share of problems, which is to be expected, like the guy in charge of this PS3 website;
http://www.playsyde.com/news_3826_en.html
It happens. Count yourself lucky.
I read that a month ago at least, and it's a bunch of nonsense from the company that created the HD-DVD format.
Gee, let's me see if I can think of anything negative about HD-DVD. 50 GB for Blu-ray versus 30 GB for HD-DVD. Too funny.
Make a news article about that!
I DID keep it there all night to test how much tolerance the PS3 can handle. That was the point. It lasted all 8 hours with the fireplace on and I took to Picture the morning after.
The Ps3 has its share of problems. Thats why they are keeping 5% of production for these problems.
If you want proof, I live next door to my friend and we have the same style house since the houses we live in are a series of look-alikes.
My entertainment spot is identical to his, over the fireplace, except I installed cabinet style doors to hide away all my electronics. This is even WORSE because the heat gets trapped inside the cabinet instead of being able to cycle through the living room.
Its a FACT, a normal PS3 has a higher tolerance for heat then a Xbox360.
"Its a FACT, a normal PS3 has a higher tolerance for heat then a Xbox360."
Since when is it a fact! Provide us with actual evidence, which should include information on the testing conditions and measurements for both consoles and the environment. The ramblings of a pathetic little fanboy child on a forum does not count as facts.
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o188/vietone206/DSC01398.jpg
reading your posts here on qj always gave the impression of someone stupid. so it's great to see you look as stupid as your posts.
Ask the thousands of Xbox360 owners who had to have their replaced due to overheating.
Ask the thousands of Xbox360 owners who have to make special placement locations just to keep the console from over heating.
Ask the thousands of PS3 owners if they can place their PS3 on top of other heat generating electronics without worry.
Statistics already show the proof. over 5% of Xbox360s with in-adequate cooling, overheating in places where you could normally place an original Xbox.
Right now as it stands, there has yet to be enough PS3s to even account for 1% of the total sold that have defects.
At launch Xbox360 was already making regular news of consoles getting the red lights. As it stands now, the inquirer, known for thoroughly posting all bad news about the PS3 has yet to post an article about overheating retail PS3s.
Is that enough for you?
Manufacturing issues and the tolerance of the consoles to heat are two DIFFERENT areas.
You didn't say the PS3 so far appears to be more reliable than the 360 was since launch, you said the PS3 has a higher tolerance for heat than the 360. In otherwords, the PS3 is more tolerant by DESIGN according to you.
Well, until that claim has been put to the test by taking a perfectly working 360 and a perfectly working PS3 and testing them under multiple conditions, then it is NOT a fact.
Try again kid.
LOL, you're the only idiot here, that 75% filler rumor was just that, a rumor. If you look up the article on joystiq and you can see that it's been updated and the actual filler is only about 400MB per region. (less than 8%) This place is meant for ps3/sony fans to look up news on the ps3, GTFO you dumb fanboy sony hater.
Although I don't agree with the tone of FanboyHater's post (why the anger?), I do agree with his point Vietone.
You made a sweeping statement that the PS3 was more tolerant to heat than the 360 which has no basis in fact. It may turn out to be true, or it may not, but whatever the outcome, it currently has yet to be tested.
As fanboyhater states, manufacturing issues is not the same thing. You can argue about which console is proving to be the most reliable, although the PS3 hasn't really sold in sufficient numbers or been in gamers hands long enough to make a meaningful comparison yet, but you can't say the PS3 is more tolerant to heat unless it has been tested against the 360 and shown to be true.
To say it was a manufacturing issue would mean the issue has been resolved in newer consoles.
yet people are still getting replacements because of overheating and failing consoles.
but a consistent amount of users on many Xbox360 forums who purchase newer Xbox360s have had their crash or freeze and give the red lights.
It is a the tolerance of the consoles Im indicating here. A large amount of Xbox360 owners have had their consoles replace, alot of them have been replaced more then once.
Is it a manufacturing issue or an issue as a whole? The manufacturing issue is a flaw in the design of the Xbox360. There are plenty of reasons why you just cant place the Xbox360 in places where an original Xbox, or PS2 could have gone. For instance, its the GPU in the Xbox360 thats causing issues. The all aluminum heatsink that has to share airflow with the CPU heatsink is the reason why the console doesn't hold up to alot of tolerance.
In the years I have been building custom PCs, the design of the heat-sink is critical to the operation of the hardware its cooling. In PCs, a X1600 which is what the Xbox360 ATI card is the equivalent of, uses a aluminum heatsink and a fan shroud that covers the entire heatsink.
The issue with the Heatsink in the Xbox360 is that since its an all aluminum heatsink, the aluminum can build up heat faster in the contact areas then can be displaced after a certain amount of heat displacement. With copper heat-sinks, the issue is less noticeable, this is why the Xbox360 has a copper heatsink for the CPU.
Then the fan shroud inside the unit is very in-efficient as well. With the type of heatsink that the GPU has, its flat and therefore air has to travel farther through it for the heat-sink to properly cool. The fan shroud doesnt even cover the heatsink at all, it depends on the DVD drive to cover the heatsink and therefore attempt to cover the heatsink enough so that air will pass through as much of the surface as it can.
Since the shroud does not provide a set path for the air to travel through the heatsink, air gets drawn from the path of least resistance and therefore air will be drawn from all the gaps between the heatsink and DVD drive which means that the end farther from the fan shroud will be alot hotter then the end closer to the shroud when it should be the other way around.
Then we take a look at the fan shroud itself. Its designed so that the opening for the CPU is directly in-line with the fans and the GPU opening is warped to match the shape of the heatsink and extends beyond the length of the fans. This creates another design flaw as the airflow from the GPU will have a significantly higher resistance then the airflow from the CPU cooler.
Following the law that air takes the path of least resistance, even with both fans running at full speed, the majority of the airflow will be drawn from the CPU cooler.
Combine the flaw of the heatsink and its location, and the flaw of the fan shroud and you have serious issue in trying to keep the GPU at acceptable levels.
This one issue could be easily resolved in a couple ways, extend the fan shroud to entirely cover the GPU Heatsink, therefore minimizing the air that can be drawn from leaks.
Make the base of the heatsink with copper to evenly displace the heat.
Any of these two solutions will cost microsoft very little and in the long run, save them time and money in replacing consoles.
yes i truly believe that its not 5% return for xbox 360 during launch. its more than that you know. my friend who is a manager works in CIRCUIT CITY here in DALY CITY (near san francisco). And he said that out of 22..there are 10 XBOX 360 returns. thats half of it.
I have the same watch as Jim Armour from Toshiba.
Vietone just shut the ***** up already, no one cares what you have to say anymore. You get criticized almost on a daily basis around here for your blatant fanboy like remarks and your "facts" that dont have anything to back them up. Seriously, just do us all a favor and unplug your keyboard when you visit this site from now on. Thanks, your friend, society...
Everything I said above about the design flaw is a fact.
Get it through your head. Anyone with half a brain can take a look at the cooling system inside the XBox360 and see that the GPU is extremely flawed in how its cooled.
That's all it is between companies and their fanboys.
Of course, it's only natural that those with the smallest d***s have the biggest mouths...
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No it is not a fact, and as skylar says, you have a reputation for being a fool on these forums, so much so that some guys now post under your name even though they are 360 fanboys (as seen above and in other threads).
No-one respects your opinions because you have proven time and time again that you're completely biased towards Sony and you have no interest in the truth. You're a biased Sony fanboy who is proud of it and will pretect Sony and their consoles like someone protecting his lover!
Gamez echoed my point in his post (and if it's the same Gamez I've seen posting here before, he's one of the few unbiased posters on QJ, unlike yourself).
When someone takes a group of 360 and PS3 consoles that are known to work without problems, and test these consoles under different environmental conditions, i.e. high temperatures, dust and dirt, reduced airflow, damp etc, THEN we will have data which will prove how well each console copes under different conditions. So far, we do not have such data, therefore you can spew out all the rubbish you like about the 360's 'flaws', you still have NO PROOF that the PS3 tolerates heat better than the 360, therefore it is NOT A FACT.
Fanboy rants is not proof, no matter how long the post.
Use some common sense. If a friend who is a manager in a different store says they haven't had any 360 returns, does that mean it's less than 5%, perhaps even 0? Of course not, so quit the rubbish of "I've got a friend who says...", because we all know that kind of statement cannot be trusted.
That said, the figure I seem to recall for 360 returns at the time was 6%, and much of that was due to problems with the DDR3 memory chips, where a large number of those manufactured were unreliable (but has since improved significantly).
Come on Vietone, post the link that you cut and pasted that info from instead of posting it as if it's your own.
The only thing that sucks is your mother giving me a blowjob, *****ing retard!
gd 1 rte u tell im lol. umu how much space does a game lik warhawk on ps3 actualli take up on bd. id b very grateful 4 a reply
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o188/vietone206/DSC01398.jpg
i hate to say this but - man you are one UGLY kid.
whats your online name?
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o188/vietone206/DSC01398.jpg
UglyKid
yea im gonna void my warranty and take apart my ps3 just to clean the lense lol
but thought i should wait
all you people have got to get over the hate. all systems have flaws. but for some reason you all like to argue who has the most flaws and who is better. you all make me sick. just shut up and enjoy gaming. and if you don't want to look up the info on it then shut your hole. some people actually want to know the problems. and i know you are all gonna dog me on this go ahead i will just sit back and laugh when you are typing it make it good beacuse people are expecting it. happy arguing!
You'll be doing it often after the warranty so you'd better brush up your skills. You should just break it intentionally so you can get a new one right before it's over. $ony couldn't even make a standard DVD drive that works for more than two years with the PS2. Blu ray will fail in about 2 years when all the people who bought blu ray players and PS3s for $500-$1000 have drive failure and no longer wish to buy crap.
Oh get off your high horse
well i'm only pointing out that Microsoft lie when they only 3% of XBOX 360 got return....when it was not. I only pointed out that my friend who is a manager said that out of 22 systems....10 people returned. So thats the proof that i'm looking for. Now ofcourse some stores doesn't have any returns...again its only assumptions when we know that a lot of consumers who bought their XBOX 360 did return it because of malfunction. And to top of that some even had the chance to return it for the 2nd or 3rd time.
Now if you are going to argue about NOW and THEN, ofcourse XBOX 360 doesn't have any problem as with their system now. Then use your common sense too, why did Microsoft extended their warranty to 1 year if they feel that their system has only minor returns? hahaha. What you have said just got back fire to you.
I played ps3 4 straight hours (playing resistance and it still didnt even get hot. Despit what fanboys say PS3 hardly gets hot the only part that does is the air intake, even then it cant even come close to even getting hot enough to melt a disc. Put your hand next to the outtake and its a nice cool output.
Really, you haven't added anything to the arguement. Like I said, you can't use your own experiences and act as if it's representative of the whole, because it's not. So your "I have a friend..." comment means nothing.
And I'm not sure where you got the 3% figure from, because my memory was of MS saying the figure was just over the 5% figure they expected, i.e. 6%.
As for MS extending the warranty, how does that change the return rate? The fact is, it doesn't, but if you have a return rate higher than expected (6% instead of 5%), then you have to be seen to do something.
So to repeat, the experiences of your 'friend the manager' means nothing, it's what's happening worldwide that counts, and so worldwide, the return rate was NOTHING like the level you claim your manager had experienced.
MS is the one who said that its typical to have a 3% return. That the first statement they official released.
Now they changed it to 5%. Then they added 1 year warranty (just in case their XBOX 360 launch system doesn't has a defect..sarcasm hahaha). See how they lies? And now i'ts more than 5%?
Again you say all you want and defend Microsoft. But everybody knows that all those 400,000 launch system they released has more than 6% defects. Maybe even 10% to 20%...ofcourse they won't tell us that. As long as they make their consumer happy right? right?
Bottom line is XBOX 360 defects is more than 6%. And to claim that other stores has 0 (zero) returns...well show me the figures then. Atleast i have a proof that some stores did received a return more than 40% of their products. Try calling your locals stores in inquire to open up your mind.
MS is the one who said that its typical to have a 3% return. Thats the first statement they officially released.
Now they changed it to 5%. Then they added 1 year warranty (just in case their XBOX 360 launch system has a defect..sarcasm hahaha). See how they lies? And now i'ts more than 5%?
Again you can say all you want and defend Microsoft. But everybody knows that all those 400,000 launch system they released has more than 6% defects. Maybe even 10% to 20%...ofcourse they won't tell us that, so the consumer won't worry. As long as they make their consumer happy thats the important thing.
Bottom line is XBOX 360 defects is more than 6%. And to claim that other stores has 0 (zero) returns...well show me the figures then. Atleast i have a proof that some stores did received a return of more than 40% of their products. Try calling your locals stores and inquire the return launch system to open up your mind.
Oh on more thing remember the guy who received three consecutive XBOX 360 defects...can you explain that? You can't argue that all those replacement XBOX 360 he received from the store gotten are from the launch day delivery. Because of XBOX 360 shortages...he need to wait for another shipment for him to replace his system. And he gets another defect. And then another defect. So whats up with that?
>"Again you can say all you want and defend Microsoft. But everybody knows that all those 400,000 launch system they released has more than 6% defects. Maybe even 10% to 20%...ofcourse they won't tell us that, so the consumer won't worry. As long as they make their consumer happy thats the important thing."
If that were true, those number would be confirmed INDEPENDENTLY, whether MS wants it or not. However it hasn't, so quit this "I know..everyone knows.." crap because you don't. To use a phrase - Put up or shut up. Put up the evidence to support your claim.
Regarding percentages. You said MS lied. Well where did they lie? To lie, they would have had to know the return figures for the 360 yet officially claim that the returns figure was much lower. Where's you evidence for this? Again, put up or shut up.
>" And to claim that other stores has 0 (zero) returns...well show me the figures then."
Are you really THAT stupid, or is reading difficult for you? I said and I quote "If a friend who is a manager in a different store says they haven't had any 360 returns, does that mean it's less than 5%, perhaps even 0? Of course not". Do I really need to explain the meaning of that sentence?
>"Atleast i have a proof that some stores did received a return more than 40% of their products."
No that isn't proof, and to think so only confirms your stupidity.
Come back when you've hit pubity, then we can discuss this furthur. Until then, this thread has long since died, so I'm not going to keep it going by argueing with a child who a) doesn't know what he's talking about b) thinks whatever friends say + proof and c) has nothin officail to back up his claims.
This is what you have yet to prove...
>"well i'm only pointing out that Microsoft lie when they only 3% of XBOX 360 got return"
I'll be waiting for your evidence that when the return figures for the 360 were KNOWN, MS claimed it was only 3% when they knew it was higher.
I'll also be waiting for your OFFICIAL 360 return figures.
So I repeat, I'm not going to waste anymore time of someone who 'b) thinks whatever friends say equals proof', give me the links to back up your arguement, or you have no arguement at all.
Good day to you.
Well I'll just add my 2 cents.
Like Gamez said earlier, there's a lot of anger in your posts FanboyHater. You make some good points but you say them a bit too loudly (if you know what I mean). You really need to calm down a little. :)
To 'somewhere', I don't really know what you're trying to say. Are you supporting Vietone's claim that the PS3 is more tolerant to heat? Because your arguement doesn't support it, as discuss earlier in this thread. If it's just about 360 launch returns, then you really haven't got anything to support what you're saying.
If I have a friend who is a developer and he tells me the 360 is more powerful than the PS3, does that make it true? I think you know the answer to that don't you, and I think you would also agree that what my 'friend' says isn't proof either. So the same applies to your friend.
Also, even if what your friend said was true, he could easily have had an unusually bad batch of 360s, just as a manager with no returns would have had an unusually good batch of machines. It happens, and could happen even if the 360 returns were less than 3%. Just ask Sony who recently had to recall OVER 9 MILLION batteries. Does that mean Sony batteries are more unreliable? No, it means there was a 'potential' problem with THOSE Sony batteries only, a problem which will not exist in the batteries manufactured today.
So maybe the 360 launch machine returns were 6%, maybe they were higher, but whatever they were, they don't say anything about the 360 today. :|
."if that were true, those number would be confirmed INDEPENDENTLY?"
that's BS! when did a independent group or company track the numbers of return system during the first few months of launched? it never happened to xbox 1, ps1, ps2, dreamcast, and gamecube. unless the famous NPD group wants to take this task.
>"if a friend who is a manager, in a different store says they haven't had any 360 returns, does that mean it's less than 5% perhaps even 0?"
that's a big IF? if this had happen to other stores? what if NOT? i'll give you a reasonable doubt. prove me if this TRUE then. give me atleast 5 STORES IN YOUR AREA who did received less than 5% returns. if you can't show me proof what store it is, then your reason is not VALID too...stupid!
."no that isn't proof and to think so only confirms your stupidity"
stupid are people who easily believes without doing any research. and why would i buy a XBOX 360 when left and right people are having bad experience with their system during those times. it might not every one, but its a lot. so this also counts in my consideration. i might believe on MS statement 3% returns if it applies TODAY because they have fix the problem. but if we are going to talk about the 400,000 they sold during XBOX 360 launch day and the consecutive shipments....NEVER!!!
."so i repeat, im not going to waste anymore time of someone who thinks whatever friends says equal proofs, give me the link to back up your argument, or you have no argument at all"
hmm, if you are going to use MS statement as a proof then you have no argument too. because i don't accept official statement when in reality its not happening. 3% returns...haha...you wish! MS lies to protect their image and their consumers....thats the bottom line. every company does that even SONY.
oh here is another one, TRUE STORY. i was waiting in line for the PS3 Preorder. the guy in front of me said to me that its his 3RD TIME TO RETURN HIS XBOX 360. that's right 3RD *****ING TIME!!! so the one he owns now is his fourth system. it took him that long to be able to get a dependable system.
so your previous statement back fires on you. "COUNT YOUR SELF LUCKY" haha.
i'm only talking about the 400,000 XBOX 360 they sold during launch day and the following shipments that MS did. thats the point of my argument that is easily to prove that its more than 6% of XBOX returns during those times. i'm talking about BEFORE not TODAY as some people might misunderstand my post here.
you're not smart and you're not funny. you still haven't proven anything. and don't give me the crap about nobody knows, because they do. why don't you do yourself and the world a favour and just shot yourself in the head.
"oh here is another one, TRUE STORY"
go away you lying sh$t for brains little kid.
where's your proof? people have asked for it and it should be easy for you to find with google. so where is it? that's right, it doesn't exist so stfu.
First of all I have to agree with veotone the ps3 is a better system and it doesnt overheat. I used to love microsoft, there xbox was much better than the ps2 but after I wrote a persuasive essay between the xbox 360 and the ps3 I changed my mind. I have played all three new consoles and the ps3 is easily the best. My friends xbox 360 was loud and it would heat up. My ps3 is extremely quiet and it doesnt ever get hot. The fact is that the ps3 has the most powerful cpu and gpu and overall it is a much better system in terms of gameplay, but it all comes down to preference. Im not a sony or microsoft fanboy I just bought the best system and in my opinion the PS3 is the best system (I will miss Halo ofcourse, lol).