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Sony's Blu-ray DVD strategy not working?

Posted Dec 8, 2006 at 2:47PM EST by QJ Staff

Listed in: PS3, Xbox 360 Tags: Goodman, Microsoft, playstation 3 updates, Reuters, Sony

Is Sony's plan to introduce Blu-ray into every home working well? According to a new report by Reuters, that may not be the case.

According to Michael Goodman of the Yankee Group, the drive isn't much of a bonus right now, given the need for Sony's format to grow more mainstream to acquire greater success. "Blu-ray is adding US$ 150 to US$ 200 to the product," he said. "They've created something that is not for today's market. It's not a market driver, it's only driving the price higher."

The rest of their report looks at it from both sides of the format wars, with the usual PR spin placed upon it by members of each side. While the Blu-ray side focused on how it would make the PS3 both a game machine and everyone's beloved movie-playing machine, the HD-DVD side talked about how the HD-DVD extension offered a choice rather than forced a format.

While none of us can really tell which side will win the format wars, a quote from 1Up editorial director John Davison places everything into the perspective that most gamers intend to see the whole debacle through: "PS3 will live and die by the games it plays. The fact it's a DVD player is a bonus, but not why people bought it."

As much as we love the PS3, that's definitely an important point to consider. What about you? Did you get a console with the purpose of watching movies on it?

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games are much more important than movies on a console for me.. although i do think the HD-DVD addon has the advantage of not wearing out your gaming disc drive from watching movies, i probably will not get one. if i get a PS3, it will be for final fantasy not blue-ray, and it will have to be INSANELY good to justify spending $560 for 1 game.

# LOL!! — Guest 2006-12-08 17:41

Movies??

# Sony's strategy... — Guest 2006-12-08 17:45

"Lets make the games SUCK and sell them movies!!"

bwahahahahahaha hahaha!! ( sony evil laugh )

BRILLIANT!!

# dumbass — BULL3TPR00F 2006-12-08 18:00

that made no sense whatsoever, and has no relevance to anything going on in this article or the comments.

# question — Guest 2006-12-08 18:05

Has anyone thought that if blue-ray fails than it would make the ps3 more secure because people won't have blu-ray burners at home. It's a win win for the sony game division, they wouldn't mind if people couldn't make backups.

# Not exactly — Guest 2006-12-08 18:24

The drives exist: 2x BD-R/RE

Presently at the price of new 12 games.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo+2475971+CatId+0

# Worked for me. — Guest 2006-12-08 19:00

The ability for the PS3 to play 1080p video out of the box without an additional disc drive was a prime reason for my purchase of a PS3. At $499, it allows me to play this generation's (not next-gen) video games at up to 1080p.

With this ability to play blu-ray movies, it will allow users to play 1080p videos through linux without lag - for a PC to do that, you would need to spend quite a bit more than 500 dollars.

I'm just here to say that I am one of the few ... or many who bought a PS3 for 1080p video playback.

P.S. I miss the rumble.

# HD Experience — Spector 2006-12-08 19:04

Obviously I wantted PS3 for the games it has and will have. It's also really great to have something that just brings out the HD experience in my HDTV. I love playing my games in HD, and watching movies in HD is great as well. Also it's odd this guy seems to overlook 360s total lack of HDMI support which will be a major factor in the years to come.

Now that I have a PS3 I'm really looking more into buying and renting blu-ray movies because I want more and more HD. HD is kind of addicting because if you will really watch anything (even the most boring discovery channle thing on earth) if it's in HD. PS3 offers the best HD experience overall that's why I own one.

# dumbass — Spector 2006-12-08 19:06

non fanboy please do one of the things listed below

a) grow up

b) shut up

otherwise take a long walk off a short peir and do the world a favor

# +1 — Guest 2006-12-08 19:07

agreed.

# Spector — Guest 2006-12-08 19:59

Spector says...

» HD Experience

Obviously I wantted PS3 for the games it has and will have. It's also really great to have something that just brings out the HD experience in my HDTV. I love playing my games in HD, and watching movies in HD is great as well. Also it's odd this guy seems to overlook 360s total lack of HDMI support which will be a major factor in the years to come.

Now that I have a PS3 I'm really looking more into buying and renting blu-ray movies because I want more and more HD. HD is kind of addicting because if you will really watch anything (even the most boring discovery channle thing on earth) if it's in HD. PS3 offers the best HD experience overall that's why I own one.

Translation: The games SUCK!! so i watch movies in my I LOVE SONY panties...I paid $600 + dollars and waited in the cold for 4 days...i might as well.. cause the games SUCK!!

btw..."wear and tear" keep that in mind when your using your BS3 for games AND movies...

Bwahahahahaha ( sony evil laugh )

# 360 is more HD ready than PS3 — Guest 2006-12-08 20:14

Did you know that HD-DVD is out performing BlueRay currently, not just by a little bit, but by a lot? Do you know the you can download HD content from an Xbox 360? Did you know that you can get HD-DVD playback in 1080P via VGA from an Xbox 360? Did you know that you can use the Xbox 360 HD-DVD addon on your PC? Did you know that the Xbox 360 GPU is better suited to the 1080P resolution so we are more likely to see more games running at 1080P on the Xbox 360 than the PS3? Aren't you worried that playing movies on your PS3 is going to shorten the life of the BlueRay drive, and it will probably be broken in a year or 2? Aren't you worried your buying a first generation BlueRay player that will under perform the next generation of players?

The PS3 doesn't offer a better HD experience than the 360. Does a PS3 upscale DVD's to 1080P? No it doesn't. But the 360 does via VGA or component cables. It also upscales games to 1080P as well, which the PS3 doesn't do. Therefore the 360 offers a more complete HD experience with more choice. Your not forced onto a format, you can either buy a HD-DVD addon or download HD movies off xbox live.

Another thing, the discovery channel is only in 720P not 1080P, do you even have a 1080P set?

# re: 360 is more HD ready than PS3 — Guest 2006-12-08 20:47

"Aren't you worried your buying a first generation BlueRay player that will under perform the next generation of players?"

Wow that makes sense when you can buy which generation HD-DVD addon for your Xbox360?

VGA? Sounds like last generation to me, I want to transfer sound and picture with one cable. Stop the damn fanboyism Devise the things you write doesmake no logic at all.

# re: 360 is more HD ready than PS3 — Guest 2006-12-08 21:21

Hey Devise did you know that you can not play gomes on the HD-DVD drive fo the 360? Yeah I bet you didnt. And not having the HDMI output really does defeat the purpose of having an HD-DVD drive for your TV. Also not letting the games project in true hi def. im not being a fan boy. but if 360 did have any good RPG's on their system i would get it. but they dont so i stick to sony.

# ... — Guest 2006-12-08 21:51

Hehe. Hey fanboy! Back in the corner. We are again sorry that this time, again, you didn't get to buy the PS3. Maybe next time. Until then keep those pointless insults going! We will cheer for you while playing with our PS3's. Go! Go! Go!

# las — Guest 2006-12-08 22:07

man will u god dam f k i n get of this blog go to ur xbox360 blog u annoying m$ fanboys ur all annoying danmnt shiiiiiiiit man....pshh just shows how un educated xbox fanboys are so sad......... white boys (sk8eters)

# PAY ATTENTION.... — Guest 2006-12-08 22:31

i will not waste time and be short...

the xbox360 HDdvd addon lacks an HDMI output..and so does the system itself..and thats exactly why this addon is useless

in the coming years[2 or 3 years of now] the HDCP protection protocol will be forced into public..

this protocol is a protoction scheme against illegal movie capture and will be made in every single next-gen movie..

all major studios and ofcourse the tv manufacturers will recquire you to have an HDMI output capable system to view their content...

i repeat...EVERY COMING TV WILL ONLY SUPPORT 1080P THROUGH HDMI AND THE MAJOR STUDIOS ARE THE ONES WHO ASKED FOR THIS HDCP PROTOCOL TO ENSURE LEGAL VIEWING....

what does that mean..???..

the lack of an HDMI output in THE XBOX360 addon means you wont be able to playback at 1080p at all....not because the system cant output 1080p...BUT...because it will be illegal to view 1080p content throgh VGA or component..only through digital HDMI

this means the ADDon is utterly....useless...in the coming years....not to mention that the addon...lacks 7.1 dolby support..and many function...it also lifts the overall cost of the system to 600$

this means that the only system capable of [LEGAL] 1080p playback will be the Ps3 through its HDMI...and at 500$ for the second sku...its way cheaper than both the xbox360 and 3rd party manufacturers..not to mention that the cost of the technology will drop..since its still a new technology.

thats is why i believe sony will..in the end..succed in its blu-ray scheme......people now dont care about blu-rey

but wait for spider-man3...and lets see who doesnt

yes....its true people buy ps3 for games..ofcourse...but people also tend to use what they have...if people see that ps3 plays BD movies..they will simply use that abilty

# ... — Guest 2006-12-08 22:53

watching HD-DVD's at 720p is not exactly "utterly useless". especially since it will be quite some time (probably well after this generation) until the majority of people own 1080p TVs. and i wouldnt be surprised if MS releases an HDMI adapter in the mean time.

# re: 360 is more HD ready than PS3 — Guest 2006-12-08 23:26

"Wow that makes sense when you can buy which generation HD-DVD addon for your Xbox360?"

At least I have a choice not to buy one and pay $200 less for a 360! And I'll pick one up if that format wins. What are you going to do when BlueRay fails like UMD?

"VGA? Sounds like last generation to me, I want to transfer sound and picture with one cable."

Funny that quality wise the HD-DVD addon is outperforming the PS3 BlueRay player because of the crappy MPEG2 codec that is being used in BlueRay titles. VGA or not, HDMI is over rated.

"Devise the things you write doesmake no logic at all."

Don't you understand what upscaling is? All new video devices are including it so instead of watching a DVD at 480P the DVD Player upscales it to your TV's maximum resolution (e.g. 1080P). The PS3 doesn't have a built in scaler, so everything is only displayed at it's formatted resolution. This is the main reason PS1 + PS2 games look like crap as well, no upscaling. Xbox games actually look heaps better on the 360 because of the upscaling, less jaggies and smoother textures.

"Re: spudboy58 (Unregistered)

» re: 360 is more HD ready than PS3

Hey Devise did you know that you can not play gomes on the HD-DVD drive fo the 360? Yeah I bet you didnt. And not having the HDMI output really does defeat the purpose of having an HD-DVD drive for your TV. Also not letting the games project in true hi def. im not being a fan boy. but if 360 did have any good RPG's on their system i would get it. but they dont so i stick to sony. "

I have no need to play games on the HD-DVD drive. I play HD games now without a HD-DVD drive.

I can get 1080P output from the HD-DVD if i like, via the VGA connection. I believe that's a step up from 480P DVD's don't you?

# PAY ATTENTION.... — Guest 2006-12-08 23:46

MS will have a solution to the HDCP PROTOCOL for the HD-DVD addon.

But I don't see the point of supporting either format!

In 5 years time everyone is going to getting movies via download, cable or box services. Why pay $20-$30 for a BlueRay movie when you can get it for $5-10 without stepping out your door.

That's the future, this format war stuff is bullshhh. That's what this analyst is saying. Sony have forced gamers to carry the cost and production delays to include a technology that's "not for today's market".

The fact is, if they excluded BlueRay we would of gotten a better PS3 more resources and money would of been put into software and hardware design for gaming), for cheaper (about $150 to $200 cheaper) about a year ago, with HDMI input and a choice to buy a BlueRay Addon, plus a years worth of games (approx 170 games).

Wouldn't all of you prefer that to Sony's current situation? Wake up suckers, i'm a gamer like you, Sony is screwing us.

# piracy — peeInMyPantz 2006-12-09 00:37

i know one thing that will drive blueray burner...

piracy!!

when ppl can backup their ps3 games to blueray disk.. that'll drive blueray.. haha

# PAY ATTENTION...TO THOSE WHO LOVE MONEY — Guest 2006-12-09 01:06

the ps3 manufacturing cost is about 820$ as an average for both consoles....

the ps3 retail price goes for 600$ and 500$ respectively..

for each unit sold sony [LOSES] money...so that YOU would buy a system...

the xbox360 cost[for the premiem]..falls at about 360$ or less dollars...since the system is mostly based on current generationcompo nets.[Dvd..VGAport..radiowave wireless..no wifi..etc]

for each xbox360 sold microsoft [MAKE A PROFIT] of each unit at about 40$...

[in other words]....by buying a ps3 your actually[BUYING A BARGAIN SYSTEM IN WITCH THE COMPANY LOSES MONEY FOR YOU]

by buying a Xbox360...[YOUR ACTUALLY PAYING MORE MONEY THAN THE SYSTEM IS WORTH]

also...the 500$ ps3 sku...for just an extra 100$ offers you [MORE] than the xbox360 premium

the 500$sku offers...a blu-ray,an HDMI CAPABLE OF HDCP..[a neccecety to play 1080p in the future],and other features..[instaling any version of linux]

microsoft cannot OVERRIDE THE HDCP IT WONT BE ABLE TO PLAY 1080P THROUGH ITS HDDVD ADDON IN THE NEAR FUTURE....and if an adapter becomes available[which i dout technically could happen....it would make the average consumer agitated..since that means he has to buy 2 addons which is....inpractical]

the next-gen formats imports will spark ones the biggest films hit the market...[SPIDERMAN3] then..the ps3..[at 500$] will be the only and cheapest system capable of Full HD...[LEGALY]

as the importance of blu-ray sparks....so will the ps3,s...combined with the arrival of final fantasy and metal gear....the ps3...to the average consumer...will be the most logical choice...financially

the ps3 is backed by the biggest games library..[THE PS2 AND PSONE]....and by 100 PS2 OWNERZ...should 60% of those buy a ps3...we have 60 MILLION BLU-RAY DRIVES IN MARKET...

with this you know what is more for your dollar

# he's got a point. — TPot 2006-12-09 01:15

You could compare it to the PSP. Although things are starting to look better in the leadup to christmas. The above seems to have been Sony's tactic with the PSP.

Where did it lead:

not many quality games.

many UMDs at stupid prices.

UMD format following Beta videos.

# Devise ... obviously no one likes you here. — Guest 2006-12-09 01:40

VGA is kinda outdated.. it's not even digital, meaning it's analog. Now if the 360 had DVI output, that would be different, but it doesn't.

What will you do when your DVDs don't have 50GBs of storage for this gen's games? Pop in different discs every so often?

Please feel free to peruse the net and read up on some updated articles.

# blu-ray vs hd-dvd console scenario — xche78x 2006-12-09 01:53

blu rays players are included with ps3

we like playstation 3 games, meaning Blu ray is a bonus.

if you want to watch a high def film and already have a ps3 then it is practical to buy blu ray movies.

if you have xbox 360, and you wanna watch HD movie, you have to PURCHASE an HD-DVD player for xbox360. will you be willing to pay another 200 just for the drive? i think most people will just settle for dvd movies on xbox360 rather than buy a drive which only has 1 purpose, and you cant even make it work if you dont have xbox 360!

yes i know, its apples vs oranges. but due to the diff strategy they took, it is most likely that when ps3 hits mainstream (enough units for everyone) then so will blu-ray!

# more HD O RLY? — Spector 2006-12-09 02:08

First off have fun downloading all your HD content onto a hard drive that in the end is only 12GB and can't be upgraded.

Secondly "did you know" that in the coming years HDMI/DVI is going to be the only way to do HD content to newer TVs. This is due to the HDCP so don't plan on buying a new 1080p set in the future cause your 360 won't work with it. You say 360 will have more HD support, but if you can't hook it up to future TVs it's going to be pointless.

Speculating it will be broken in 2 years is pointless and cannot be proven. Also just the kind of slight push on the HD-DVD for the 360 is what will make HD-DVDs weak in general I'd say. Also PS3 utilizing the BD for games and movies instead of the 360 which is going to be playing games on multiple discs in the near future (have fun disc swapping).

PS3 will be supporting upscaling the future also, it has already been said. You also mention downloading HD movies on live. Well once again your teeny tiny HDD is really going to make you suffer. I may have bought a 20GB PS3 but it has a 160GB in it now.

For a first generation blu-ray player its doing great for me. The movies I've watch so far have great picture and sound. Blu-ray is good stuff.

Yes I'm well aware the standard for most any television show to broadcast in HD is 720p. I never once mentioned TV broadcasting in 1080p. You are putting words in my mouth to try and make me look stupid, I'd appreciate you didn't. I was just trying to show how much people love HD. Yes I do own a 1080p.

# your prediction — Spector 2006-12-09 02:14

5 years time is way to soon for downloading movies and such to take effect. People are still enjoying tangible movies in their hands and such. It's why the iTunes store is hardly selling any movies, and most movie download services suck anyway (don't let you keep your download forever like 360).

It's going to be a decade or more before cable boxes and download systems truely phase out tangile movies. Also with 1080p that demands a lot of bandwith most cable boxes or download sites can handle and only do 720p movies on channles and have a not so great selection on demand.

Sony is doing us all a service in my opion with just about everything they've done thus far with the PS3. I'm a happy consumer. If anything you should be upset cause of all your space lacking storage mediums on the 360.

# The arguments! — Guest 2006-12-09 02:57

First off why is everyone arguing about the freaken movie playback on these machines when they're supposed to be for gaming!!!!

I think everyone is on each others ass too early in the lifespan of HD media. Maybe its to say "I told you so!" when the outcome is reached.

Personally I don't want to spend 600 on a GAME console that a company (Sony) is trying to push it's woes on me. That's kinda unethical don't you think. If the media war is won it's because of us. If it fails it because of us. So what happens IF it fails?

The PS2 was bad-ass, but it didn't scream "PS2 with new DVD movie playing ability!". It was dedicated and concentrated soley on GAMING. Those who say that BR is for gaming (game size) they are just lying to themselves. If MS and Nintendo can fit eveything to size (and still be entertaining) why can't Sony do it? Now your gonna go into the graphics argument, well how about the PS2 and XBOX? PS2 still kicked XBOX ass even though it was more advanced.

If you want to take it up the ass by Sony and risk a $600 purchase now then do so. No braggin. I will wait a few years, for the price to fall and for the kinks to get ironed out (scaling issues, muliple firmware patches within a few days, controller mafunctions, developers introduction into new hardware, Devise has a point concerning how you can lessen the lifespan of the BR drive by playing games/movies (all optical drive lifespan is reduced when playing media)- I never use my 360 to play anything but games, there's a lot more but you probably know about em already). Plus they'll be more great games out (hopefully). Unless the PS3 ends up like the PSP... then I would be glad I didn't spend $600 on it. The PS3 may be next-gen but it's also RISKY-GEN.

# People dont see the advantage — Vietone 2006-12-09 04:26

Having Blue-ray is much more of an advantage then not having it.

Let me explain.

Yes games are getting bigger. Anyone including Microsoft who think games wont breach the 9Gb barrier on a console is idiotic when games have already broken the 9GB barrier a couple years ago on a PC.

I wont say that 9Gb is not enough but look at games these days. People are expecting more out of games and some people like special features. Take GTA for example, on the last gen systems, the games were over 8GB. How much space do you think it would take for a large sandbox game like GTA to look good? DVD9 will be a huge limiting factor in how the game will look.

Look at Blue Dragon, the game comes on 3 disks including the extras. And all of this could fit on 1 HD DVD or 1 Blue-ray disk.

Playing back movies on a game console is more expected. Do you use your Xbox360 to play back DVDs? I'm pretty sure 90% or more XBox360 owners watch movies on the console on more then one occasion.

Whats the advantage of the HD DVD addon? Its optional and thats pretty much it. What kind of person would rather be able to have something optional then have it built in? How many people have already showed their disappointment in not having an internal HD DVD drive?

The Blue-ray drive in the PS3 will last just as long as any other drive on the market. Just because the technology in reading a disk is different, that doesn't mean that they had to redesign the motor and layout from scratch. Being able to watch Blue-ray movies on the PS3 is an advantage. For an extra 100 bucks, you get a future-proof HDMI output that will always be compatible with new TVs while VGA will be phased out of TVs because its an extra cost that consumers don't ever use and manufacturers can take out and keep cost down.

They don't make TVs for gamers, they make TVs for the whole general market. When they do their survey and people show a decline in VGA interest, then it will be phased out rendering 1080p useless on the Xbox360 for newer TVs. Since most TVS limit component to 1080i.

Some of you under estimate the PS3 as a complete home theater solution. You can do just about anything on it in terms of enjoying media. Music plays back with a nice visualizer an the video support on the PS3 is only second to a Computer. The whole multimedia experience on the PS3 is the reason why gamers and home enthusiast will purchase the PS3.

In terms of blue-ray vs HD DVD sales, both are still head on. PS3 has pushed the market because people have the ability to play blue-ray and if they have a HDTV, they will buy or rent blue-ray movies. Its just how people bought a PS2, and it was their first DVD player.

# Let's sum this up — Guest 2006-12-09 04:56

Spector I'm happy you got a gaming machine and a cheap BlueRay player and your happy with it. The PS3 is definitely the system for you.

I want a PS3 for games and i feel robbed by having to pay extra money for something that isn't needed for games. How can BlueRay possibly be of benefit to me? Why do I have to pay $200 extra so you can watch movies?

# meh — Guest 2006-12-09 05:16

ok... first off, the PS3 is clearly advertised as more than a gaming machine, it is an entertainment media center. so the fact that it adds DVD/BD playback is not just an added bonus considering that most people that are buying the PS3 now know that its not just for gaming. half the articles on this website are talking about linux and BD and other media playback.

as far as the BD/HD-DVD battle, dont forget that its all coming down to space in the end. we already know that the HD-DVD gives a sharper picture for movies than the BD, but whats important is what theyre being used for. mabye the battle will take a different turn in that BD loses the movie battle, but becomes more of a way to hold information. i would LOVE to have a 60GB disk to hold media for me.

Lastly, as much as you all love to talk about the 1080p outputs.. its not likely that most people that will have a 360 or a PS3 in the next 6 months will have a tv with 1080p output, as a matter of fact, most tv's dont have 1080p output. the most inexpensive tv with 1080p that i can find was $2000. most people will be using these systems for the next few years with 720p or 1080i output, and those are the important years for the systems and the format battle.

# advantage for some disadvantage for many — Guest 2006-12-09 05:22

"Look at Blue Dragon, the game comes on 3 disks including the extras. And all of this could fit on 1 HD DVD or 1 Blue-ray disk."

Blue Dragon has many HD Video cut scenes. I don't mind changing a disc every 10 to 15 hours of game play, this wasn't a problem on the PS1 or PS2, so why is it a problem on the 360? Multi-Disc games will be rare, probably under 5%. Again I'm fine with change discs every 10 to 15 hours of game play, it's not a big deal for me. PS2 only used single layer DVD where the Xbox used dual layer, that wasn't a problem for the PS2. Remember Blue Dragon is from the makers of Final Fantasy so I was expecting multi discs on this a long time ago.

BlueRay has slower ready times than DVD so PS3 owners are experiencing slower loading times. Atleast with some games you can run the install so loading times are quicker, takes about 20 minutes and about 5GB of space so i hear. That's not much of an advantage there.

"Whats the advantage of the HD DVD addon? Its optional and thats pretty much it."

I can wait to buy one, and see if the format takes off. My 8 year old nephew doesn't need to watch sponge bob square on HD-DVD/BlueRay on his 480p CRT TV, he has no interest in this format war.

"Some of you under estimate the PS3 as a complete home theater solution. You can do just about anything on it in terms of enjoying media. Music plays back with a nice visualizer an the video support on the PS3 is only second to a Computer. The whole multimedia experience on the PS3 is the reason why gamers and home enthusiast will purchase the PS3."

The 360 can do all of this except for run Linux. Linux runs crap on the PS3 because of you have no access to the GPU and access to less than 200MB on memory. Hopefully it gets hacked and then it well really be a computer not just a wannabe. I still recommend a soft modded original Xbox with XBMC as a better media center experience.

I hear what you are saying, but really the BlueRay thing only appeals to a selected few. The fact is the playstation should be a gaming machine, and BlueRay isn't for games. It's an extra expense to force a format.

# heh — Guest 2006-12-09 05:32

"ok... first off, the PS3 is clearly advertised as more than a gaming machine, it is an entertainment media center. so the fact that it adds DVD/BD playback is not just an added bonus considering that most people that are buying the PS3 now know that its not just for gaming. half the articles on this website are talking about linux and BD and other media playback."

A bonus is something that is added at no extra cost

"as far as the BD/HD-DVD battle, dont forget that its all coming down to space in the end. we already know that the HD-DVD gives a sharper picture for movies than the BD, but whats important is what theyre being used for. mabye the battle will take a different turn in that BD loses the movie battle, but becomes more of a way to hold information. i would LOVE to have a 60GB disk to hold media for me."

You'd play $800 for a BlueRay burner and $20-30 per blank BlueRay disc so you can store 60GB on a disc? BTW, BlueRay can only hold 50GB of data on dual layer and dual layer burner wouldn't be release for another year or 2. Why not just use that upgradable HDD?! Great feature, has nothing to do with BlueRay cost sony nothing extra to do, NOW THAT'S A BONUS! BlueRay is not needed to storage.

"Lastly, as much as you all love to talk about the 1080p outputs.. its not likely that most people that will have a 360 or a PS3 in the next 6 months will have a tv with 1080p output, as a matter of fact, most tv's dont have 1080p output. the most inexpensive tv with 1080p that i can find was $2000. most people will be using these systems for the next few years with 720p or 1080i output, and those are the important years for the systems and the format battle."

Exactly, upscaled DVD's look almost as good as BlueRay + HD-DVD on 95% of current household TV's why do people even bother in the new formats!

# well... — Guest 2006-12-09 06:18

Also you can get a 360 with an HD-DVD player for $499 and play the HD-DVD's at 1080p also right out of the box...with the help of the new update...And you could still have your rumble!

# I'm glad everyone here undertstands... — Guest 2006-12-09 06:44

Ask anyone else, What's HDDVD?, what's BluRay? What's 720, 1080, etc! The average consumer don't know what any of those terms mean. When you think about the PS2 you think games- now the sucessor, PS3... what are you expected to think? BAD-ASS 1080P, BluRay hold a lot of data, it's even got HDMI and runs LINUX!!! I don't think I heard any of those from the places I've gone to (Wal-Mart, BestBuy, Circuit, GameStop, EBGames). Some lady I over heard labled Bluetooth as the new BluRay Media (very funny).

Veitone-

Changing disk? Why argue about that, we know there were tons of games for the PS2 that required swaping. I don't see why your bring it up now when you were fine with it before.

BluRay- pure speculation, who'll know where it'll lead. Plus why is that even argumental? I can play the same games on my 360 that you can play on a PS3. (I don't even wanna touch the movie aspect).

Some of us under estimate the PS3 as a complete home theater system?? Not us, but the regular consumer does. As I stated above the PS3 is a gaming machine no matter how you lable it, why? Because of the PS2. "$600 to play a video game? Hell no, I'll cash in on the Wii!". They don't think "$600, wow- 1080p, BluRay, HDMI, I CAN RUN LINUX! What a deal!!!"

I just can't imagine being sucked into the PS3 because Sony wants to win a format war. I curse them out everyday. At the same time they lead so many gamers the wrong way. Just because they say this or that means it the best and we should have it. I guess I'm not stupid enough to fall for their trap. Until the PS3 is an established system that prove it'll go the opposite way of the PSP- I'll hold off buying it.

# OR.. — Guest 2006-12-09 07:38

you could download an HD movie to your 360. and you will be able to hook the HD-DVD player up to a PC.

# ... — Guest 2006-12-09 08:40

do you really think MS won't release a larger HDD? of course they will. and if its THAT big of a deal, the HDD can be modded (i've seen 360's on ebay with 160gb HDDs). and as its been said before: I would much rather swap a disc after HOURS of gameplay, than FREQUENTLY wait for longer load times. (even fight night round 3 which was "enhanced" for ps3 has load times that are TWICE as long)

# you are all morons — Guest 2006-12-09 09:37

saying that the b-ray is not an advantage.wtf.

I heard tdk is working on 200gb b-ray disc!!!!!

how's that? poor hd-dvd

# PAY ATTENTION....THIS WHY PS3 IS THE MOST LOGICAL CHOICE FOR CONSUMERS. — Guest 2006-12-09 10:51

i,ll make it short..

----------------------

the next-gen of formats..[blu-ray,HDdvd] will be a major factor in the consumers lives wether [WE] like it or not...simply because major studios wants the new format and will gradually make movies solely in it.

-------

*they want it because the new formarts offers better security through HDMI HDCP protocol...[pay extra notice to HDCP]

--------

*consumers today dont care about blu-ray..because there are no worthy movies currently....but once the likes of SPIDER MAN3 arrives.....and HDCP is forced into the public...the Blu-ray importance will spark greatly.

--------

*the ps3 is currently the only system capable of 1080p video playback..because its the only system that has HDMI...microsoft [tricked] its consumers when it didnt tell them that their HDDVD addon..[due to lack of HDMI]..will not be able of 1080p playback through VGA...[since it will be illegal and tv,s wont support it]..and microsoft cannot fix the issue by a simple update since[HDCP IS HARDWARE BASED PROTECTION]....(it uses a chip to encrypt data and another one to decrypt)

------

*when the average consumer hears that the ps3 is the only system that can play games and play spiderman3 at 1080p they will seek it..for [GAMES] and [movies]

(consumers always like having more for their money..so the ps3..at just 500$ offers them far more than any system)

--------

this wont be evident now..but only when the greatest movies arrive...the 1080p capable tvs will fall greatly in price in the coming years..specially when HDCP is enforced...then every tv will need you to have an HDMI capable system to have 1080p...(in which the xbox360 doesnt)

--------

there are 100 MILLION PS2 OWNERZ IN THE WORLD...should 60% of those buy a ps3..then we would have 60 MILLION blu-rays...HDDVD CANNOT DREAM TO GET CLOSE.

-------

finally...the ps3 is the cheapest system..[check my above article entitled..(to those who love money)]..costing 820$ and retailing for as low as 500$...the xbox360 costs a mere 340$ and sells for 400$

-------

To those who say the blu-ray lens gets damaged if use to play movies...i have ps2 that i used for anything you can imagine...and it still works like a horse..even after 6 years of usage.

--------

bottom line:...the ps3..for just a [mere extra 100$]..[YES 100$] offers you a blu-ray,and an HDMI PORT.[the only system to do that,and ability to install linux]...

------

***is there a fool who doesnt want a blu-ray drive for just an extra 100$...not to mention the other extras....i dont think so..

-----

#P.S : I WOULD LIKE EVERYONE TO SEARCH information about HDCP and HDMI and why HDMI will be the only way to view 1080p.

that is all...

# well.. — Guest 2006-12-09 10:52

well everyone and their mother will have a ps3 eventually, so blu-ray will be a common household item.

# a little something that i,d like to add.. — Guest 2006-12-09 11:29

i,ve read from some of the posts posted here...that some are sayin that we dont need next gen formats..and that consumers do not know anything about these formats...and that having dvd upscale to 1080p is actually a better choice..

DEAR FELLOW READERS..

--------------------------------

when was the last time a major company asked your opinion in implementing new technology..???..DID that ever happen??...ofcourse not...[COMAPANIES DO-NOT-ASK-CONSUMERS-ABOUT-ESTABLISHING-NEW-TECHNOLOGIES]..

why..you ask..??? i,l tell you..

-------------------------------------

because if companies follow consumers choices...wed still be playing the [Atari]..[and probably would never reach the 8-bit nentindo level]....and wed never have seen CD,s [since every one was happy with VHS]..but it was companies who invested and made new technologies that made the market and our world what it is...and because of this fact... BLURAY/HDDVD will be the next gen formats of movies... and consumers will know everything about them because WARNER BROS,DISNEY AND EVERY OTHER MAJOR STUDIO WILL NOT WAIT FOR CONSUMERS TO ACCEPT THE NEW FORMATS BECAUSE IF THEY DO...WE MAY GO BACK USING CD,S.....THE MAJOR COMPANIES WANT THE NEW FORMATS...because of the HDCP HDMI protection scheme from one hand...and The high quality of playback when encoded at 1080p...[making movies more attractive...thus more profitable]..

-------------------------

and that is why...anyone who thinks that BLURAY/HDDVD wont be market drivers in the coming 2 years...[are plain naive]

p.s:i noticed that some people keep saying that they dont want to be forced to pay an extra 100$ for a blu-ray drive...speak of fools

# ... — Guest 2006-12-09 13:14

that may be true, but there is still the rumor that:

"a secret, behind-the-scenes deal has been struck between Hollywood studios and consumer electronics heavyweights to not use ICT until 2010 or perhaps 2012."

which would make the case of 360 not supporting HDCP irrelevant, since the next generation of consoles will be coming out by then.

Also, before the 360 launched, Microsoft stated that HDMI wires for the Xbox 360 would be released "when the market called for them.", and more recently that the 360 is "flexible enough to allow support of a digital connection in the future should we choose to do so. so we will probably be seeing the HDMI wires soon.

and i still don't have any faith that the average consumer will memorize (or even understand) the difference between 1080i and 1080p. There are MANY people with HDTV's that have only standard def. cable hooked up, and they STILL think they are watching it in HD.

# YOU'RE SO SMART!!! — ContrAss 2006-12-09 15:09

I got a 360 so i can play games too! ONLY GAMES! It's a game machine! It's so cool that it plays next gen games! Oh, and i download movies off their service from time to time too...*****ing retard

# ... — Guest 2006-12-09 15:28

you guys are all idi0ts... why the hurry to go HD in the first place? to watch you PRON on HD and see that money shot on the FACE! or you guys just want to see THAT BIG BLACK CokC up close and personal... i don't see HD being noticable in the next 10 more years...

# good stuff — Guest 2006-12-09 15:51

good descution minus the few xbots trolling about

ps name 1 PS2 game that used multi disks i cant think of 1 many people mentioned that and tiped me off to there alegence +there were plenty of DL ps2 games

pss. i was in best buy the other day and noticed that there were definately more movies i wanted to watch in the hd-dvd rack then the BR but i wont be buying them cause ps3 suports BR so thats that if there had been a competing format for dvd when i got my ps2(also first dvdplayer) i wouldnt have bouhgt it either just something to think about im sure many would agree

# umd — Guest 2006-12-09 16:30

was UMD supposed to be the next big thing? Other than a psp....what else can use it? Was it supposed to play movies and be in the center of my entertainment system?

# wow — Guest 2006-12-09 16:32

WHO GIVES A ***** ABOUT HD! OOOOO it's a better picture, whoop-de-fricken-doo, ya know what it is, a waste of money! That's what it is. Same the the ps3, they FORCE you to buy the system with blu-ray, the 360 hd add on is optional, but seriously who gives a care.

# MS will have a solution — Guest 2006-12-09 16:34

So now that you see a problem with the 360 MS fanboys say MS will have a solution....

They bash the first shipment ps3 with problems and swear its all over for sony.

I finally figured it out..... Microsoft can find solutions but Sony cant.

# HDCP is crap — Guest 2006-12-09 16:59

Screw HDCP.....

Seriously in the near future, devices like this will be mass produced in China. (Come on that's what this country is for)

http://www.immateriblog.de/archives/000242.html

With this, HDCP becomes a DUD....

As for the Blu Ray vs HD-DVD issue, something just came into my mind, maybe the names of the format will have some effects in the future and maybe even now. Come on, the name Blu Ray suggests something of the future. On the other hand, HD-DVD sounds kind of boring. This may not fool techy people around but in the mainstream market, this may have significant effects.

Just my .02

# lol — Guest 2006-12-09 17:08

i'd reply, but its clearly not worth my time.

# Load Times — Spector 2006-12-09 17:14

Cross platform games will always have crappy load time. Games made for the PS3 have very short load times so you can stop beating that dead horse like most people did months ago.

# very true — Spector 2006-12-09 18:40

It is quite amazing how they enjoy oversighted their own faults and pouncing on others. It's just a sad mentality really.

# Give up Devise — Spector 2006-12-09 18:46

Multi-discs are a hassle no matter how much you say you don't mind.

Load times aren't an issue really except for maybe cross-platform games with lazy devs. Games like Resistance and Genji in no way have long load times.

With similar load times you next come down to storage which PS3 destroys 360 in. 360 overall has very limited storage space.

Having fun modding your 360 then getting it bricked on a firmware update too.

the nation is moving towards HD, go find out how many people locally are subscribed to HD channles in your area (much more than you'd expect). Think of how many new HDTVs are in homes as of black friday. With that being said blu-ray is becoming a much more appealing thing. Blu-ray is for games because it doesn't make devs worry about storage space at all. Even if the movie format fails I'll like having all my games on 1 disc filled with tons and tons of content.

# Its all about HD — Spector 2006-12-09 18:48

The PS3 is geared towards an HD experience. The game are all in HD for the best visual experience. Having the ability to play movies in 1080p as well is just more and more HD. Anyone with an HD set can't get enough HD and once you watch an HD set you know why.

The benefit is that you have something with amazing games and the ability to bring out everything you'd want brought out in your HDTV.

# . — Guest 2006-12-09 20:46

Remember when PS2 came out with its DVD player when a lot of people thought 00AUD was expensive when it first came out. But a lot of people benefitted from it having a DVD player and having the ability to play DVD movies and play games rather than going out to buy a DVD player for their TV.

I have to agree with Kev "Come on, the name Blu Ray suggests something of the future. On the other hand, HD-DVD sounds kind of boring." It makes it sound like they've just renamed the DVD format with a little enhancement to make it sound a tad better.

# Sony fanboys like to take it in the ass — Guest 2006-12-10 01:52

Daniel - DVD was already an established format you idiot. And what other choice did people have in a game console? Gamecube, it sucked.

Broken_Hero- you are just a troll and seems happy Sony have force feed you a unproven format. The PSP has sold over 10 million consoles, but the UMD format failed. Enough said!

And WTF is this BlueRay suggests something of the future bullscrap!?! Atleast people know what HD-DVD means, it's going to be easier to market.

# Resorting to name calling? — Spector 2006-12-10 05:35

Actually most people I've talked to understand blu-ray is a HD format and new and all. They usually need HD-DVD explained because they think it is just some better kind of DVD that will work in their DVD player.

Either way name proves nothing. Also I wouldn't cite the UMD as a failure since people do still buy movies for it, movies are still made for it, and lots of games are still bought that are made for it.

# or... — Spector 2006-12-11 11:58

have fun DL'ing HD movies you can't even keep for ever onto that small HDD. Only 20GB for all your backwards compatibility and HD movies... going to run out of room fast.

You can also shell out an extra $100 on top of the HD-DVD player price to work with your PC... oh man 360 really is a great value.

# Find me a ps3 game that can run fluid in 1080p! — Guest 2006-12-27 16:32

To start off, it is about the games to me. Sony is got more important fundamental problems to worry about than hdmi outputs. The first problem is running a game in 1080p at 60 frames per second. I need a 1080p tv that can refresh 60 frames per second. Why am I dwelling on frames per second? Movies can look fluid in 24 and 30 frames per second. You see games need to refresh fast to take in user input to maintain fluid movement. < 60 frames per second will screw with your eyes bad.

Screw the output method(hdmi).....The bigger question is will the treasured cell be able to create a workable game. Gran Turismo was suppose to be the 1080p poster child for a game running in 1080p. Wait it is running in 720p and no 1080p. The reason being is the ps3 cannot do it and it be playable.

I am a computer programmer and I see things in a different light. Efficiency is more important than brute power. The ps3 overall architecture is terrible. The cell can push 2 gflops of computing power in theory. There is nothing special about the ps3's graphics processor, memory, of bus speed. So, they make the cell a theoretical brute. The memory bandwidth of the ps3 is only 1/5 of the 360's memory bandwidth. The 360 was designed to resolve this problem because they knew the bigger the processor...the more memory bandwidth needed. The cell will never be able to hit theoretical perfect world speed. This to me is the problem you need to be discussing. The assumption that the ps3 can just do this is kind of funny. Its kind of like building a state of the art car but talking about the improvements of the road its going to drive on.

I think you will see a 1080p playstation game when the ps4 is released. About that same time a 1080p 60 fps refresh tv should be out also.

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