Sony vs. Immersion, now with sound |
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We all remember the row between Immersion and Sony, and how this was connected to Sony's E3 announcement that the PS3's controller lacked the rumble feature, pointing out that they were trying to make the console more affordable *coughonegrandfortheunitcough*.Victor Viegas of Immersion Corporation who wasn't buying this, was quick to point out what they thought was the real reason for Sony's rumble removal: Sony's recent patent infringement cases with Immersion.
You've read the news, now you can hear it.
The hearings for Sony's appeal of their case just concluded this October 3rd, and while the appeal courts have yet to make a ruling, it doesn't look too good for Sony, whose lawyer was running in circles without making any real points. Check the end of this artie for links to the hearing recordings, provided by the U.S. court of appeals.
We're unsure of what this spells for Sony and the PS3, though there have been mixed reactions about the removal of this long-standing console feature, then there's your thoughts.
What do you guys think?
download: [Sony vs. Immersion Court hearing, October 3]
Via IGNIQ
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Comments [refresh]
this would be an interesting hearing.
you cant really have rumble with motion sensor anyway, surely the rumble would through the montion sensor mental?
but maybe a switch between the two would have been possible?
...but the outcome surely is. I doubt Sony will go another round. If they lose this, they'll have to pay a lot of money for trivial patents. While Sony is not innocent in such matters by itself, it still would be a sad day.
The only ones really winning here are the lawyers. Laws for lawyers sake.. yuck!
I don't know why people are giving Sony a hard time even though they asked for it at times I mean with this rumble debate all Sony’s doing is not being idiots cause if you think about it immersion is init for the money cause they already sued Sony for god knows how much now they want Sony to buy there technology funny they want to be friends after they sued the crap out of them its going to mean financial suicide so plus the loss on the court case and to buy the technology is like buying a PS3 for about $9000 meaning not worth it. So what immersion is doing is using the media and gamers reactions to make Sony look bad and hopefully fall to the pressure all it comes down to is immersion are a bunch of crafty suns of *****
Peace Out.......
Totally agree with Enigma. Immersion is just putting on a show for anyone who needs another reason to hate Sony. I give Sony alot of respect for not taking this trial laying down like M$ had. These frivolous lawsuits are really making a joke of our judicial system. And how the hell did they grant Immersion a patent for a unbalanced wieght on a electric motor armature?!? Hasn't that "technology" been out forever?
You know it amazes me that people whine and complain that the PS3 costs $600 and yet, when Sony try to cut costs by removing the rumble feature or a HDMI cable, they whine and bitc# even more.
in the court room Sonys argument is understandable about the weights in the controller either spinning around or just swinging, showing the technology is slightly diferent,
also Immersion would be *****ing up its own profit if sony losses, because most of there ontrollers and stuff are for the PS
Who cares about this stuff anymore, i just want ps3, rumble hardly makes a difference. If adventure games on ps2 used the rumble for like something that was gonna happen so you got to press a button to dodge, counter, whatever it would have been useful, but its really nothing. Sony should just give up the court cases pay them and forget about the rumble. I mean seriously hardly any games used it for innovative purposes so i wouldn't care it is was there or not.
#7 says hardley any game uses it?
Just about every game I own uses it.
Not all games use it well, but many do.
Racers like Ridge Racer And GT use it for the bumps in roads and gravel. They use it to let you know that you are making contact with another car.
Ico used it to let you know when you were holding the girls hand and you could feel the resistance between you two when you would suddenly run.
Rez used it so you could feel the beat which added a lot to the game. (It would be cool to see Luminus use it too)
In FPS you can feel that you are getting tagged from the side or behind.(for us noob gamers)
It bothers me to hear gamers saying that they don't need it. It likes whatever Sony says the fans believe it. Everyone knows that all that stuff in the interiews was bull, yet we just sum it up to "whatever". What next will Sony take away that they feel we don't need. " Hey let's save some money and ditch the second analog stick, most games doesn't use it anyway". That could be next. (Oops they did that already with PSP)
For $600 I would expect rumble to be standard. If Nintendo can make it work at the right price point, I know that a electronic giant like Sony can easily make it work. This sums up to lies or just being lazy.
Let me guess in two years we will have Dual Shock Axis controlers. (PSOne all over again)
The reason Sony is forced to pay so much fine is because they tried to bribe one of a key witness.
end of discussion.
Rumble isnt really a needed feature anymore. With the improved quality of sound, more people having mini sound systems in their living room and 7.1 dolby digital surround sound. Almost anything can be simulated in a more realistic and much more immersive way. Hell In some games I noticed they were able to throw sounds around on stereo outputs. If im playing a FPS id much rather hear the sound of the bullet entering my flesh with an ear defening thud than a jolt of rumble on my hands. Beats can be easily substituted with proper use of base, Same with ridge racer and GT. Sound is much more effective in immersing yourself into a game than a vibrating controller. Even at low volumes, good proper use of sound will have you almost feeling every bumb and tossle.
In my opinion, rumble is only a substitute for sound for in multiplayer nononline matches. But then your into the game so much that you wouldnt notice anyways.
to #8) Your anti-sony setiment bothers me a little. I think you missed the point of it all. Immersion screwed sony up the ass with the rumble. Im sure you wouldnt want to bend over again and say 'stick it back in' i want that. Though without games like god of war and COD2 i would be in your shoes with the rumble. Sony hasnt taken anything away that we dont need, rumble was used in every game, most very poorly, some really well. It was a console extra really, you dont see rumble in arcades, handhelds, movies, or anything else but one or two gameboy/ds games and your cell phones.
Also handhelds are needed to be simplistic by design and space constraining. Thats why you dont see two sets of shoulder pads or an extra analog nub on your psp or ds. Yes it hurt some games for the psp but thats a problem that devs didnt deal with to make it work. By the way most people arnt happy wiht nintendos pricepoint or price of all the controller peices. now this is getting to long so ill end it here.
I think this is great. The way to look at is: Sony loses millions off the patent. Makes money up off of software sales. Immersion gets nothing after that. Serves them *****ing right for being jews.
You ever think MS just paid them because they obviously knew they couldnt win.. No thats to obvious. Sometimes its best to just suck it up instead of letting your ego get in the way..
I said hardly any games used it for innovative purposes, i never said hardly any games used the rumble. Don't skim through what i say...... thats if you did. But rumble isn't important if you want it so badly then most likely get an alternative controller. Maybe some games will support rumble but hey whatever. All i know developers are using the potential of the sixaxis in innovative ways. Looks very good for Ace Combat games really, i would play considering i bought the last 2 ace combats for ps2.
Even though i don't like to move the controller(hey it does nothing lol...) but i guess it helps the newbies out.
I for sure want to test out a Wii and see how the controller works. If the remote is really affected by sunlight then its bad for me as my tv is close to a window but is not affected by sunlight but i do know the sunlight will be in the middle of the Wii and the remote. Hopefully this does not affect Playstation 3 axis sensing.
Naaaa nothing to do with ego all i can say is if you got cash and you got a little bump in the way you would throw your money at it and go ok move aside cause you can when your loaded, But a real company wouldn't take that ***** lying down. Oh don't get me wrong sony aint angels but i take my hat of to them for atleast fighting a lost cause.
Naaaa nothing to do with ego all i can say is if you got cash and you got a little bump in the way you would throw your money at it and go ok move aside cause you can when your loaded, But a real company wouldn't take that ***** lying down. Oh don't get me wrong sony aint angels but i take my hat of to them for atleast fighting a lost cause.
Man, To shut everyone up Because literaly, its useless, This people 1 are jelous, two Sony made it Better Use for it which to a point grew more importance and cash. 3- this people saw that their small "idea" was used and desinged better, that they didnt see anything coming to them so they brought all this useless crap to court, Listen tot he judge, she just wants to strangle that guy for such idioticy.
Jesus, Sony is doing what ever old day american is doing, grasping ideas from each countries, and inovating them into a supposely New and Better Idea/System/anything.
I thnk we all realize that this patent law is out of control. Kids in elementry school have probably made the unbalanced motor concept a million times. There are some things out there that should not be patented, might even be better with no patents at all. (Isnt that what its like in China)
Competition is what drives products up and re-inventing innovation, we would be so more advanced civilization right now if it wasn't for stupid patent rules. Medical breakthrough alone should warrant more of an "open source" approch to manufacturing products.
Sony should make more of an effort to battle the laws they have for patents. I think they are just as caught up in the game as anyone though, patenting everything under the sun and if it becomes widely used, you can be sure as heck that they are going to try to claim their money from that, driving whatever individual or mom and pop right out of the court room. Therefore they should give up and pay the Immersion peeps who won the stupid little patent rat race. Play fair Sony.
YAY for the winter games festival!!! 360 hits, Wii PS3.. I love you Santa. CHRISTMAS 22062007 is going to rock so hard.
i think imersion is scared more than sony because if the ps3 becomes the #1 console and it didnot need rumble for it imersion loses and they know sony will eventually create ther own rumble without the need of imersion
Sony spends tens of millions on THEIR patents and THEIR patent lawyers. They just have no respect for other peoples IP. Especially some small piss ant American company. It appears that Immersion had no choice but to protect their IP as Sony would not recognize them and just went on stealing. A judge and jury found them unanimously guilty.
Look it up-- Apple / Microsoft / LG electronics/ BMW /Samsung / Philips / Siemens / Volkswagon/ Logitech/ etc... ALL license Immersion's Technology. Why not the bully Sony? Immersion specializes in haptic technology and has some 600 patents. They make medical devices that help save lives. I am sure that they would like nothing better than to work with Sony.
These days the proud bully Sony just does as it pleases. Root kits for unsuspecting customers? Batteries that flame up? Not to mention the lies. All the LIES.
I use to consider Sony the king of quality. How the mighty have fallen.
Sony wouldn't be the first major player to fade away due to bad choices.
I for one totally agree with sony for using the root kit, all they are doing is protecting their IP.
Its no different then Immersion taking Sony to court for using their IP. NO DIFFERENT AT ALL. So if you totally agree with immersion suing sony, but dont agree with sony using root kits then you need to rethink your morals.
Anyway, the idea for an off balance weight on a motor was designed years ago. They were in devices for the longest time and yet a company was able to get a patent for it. The design has been a common engineering practice for years, its been used in several applications like gyroscopes, vibrators, chairs, and just about everything that has a shaking ability.
The people who give out these patents need to be re-evaluated.