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Sony ID: Not that efficient says Microsoft employee

Posted Nov 3, 2006 at 10:29PM EST by QJ Staff

Listed in: PS3, Xbox 360 Tags: Andre Vrignaud, Microsoft, Ozymandias, playstation 3 updates, PlayStation Network, Sony, Xfire

It is expected that Microsoft employee's wouldn't think much of Sony's PS3 or Sony's Online service. It's normal. They are working for a company that's in direct competition. But just for the sake of clarity, let's take some time to look at the actual points raised by Microsoft employee Andre Vrignaud (better known as Ozymandias on his blog) regarding the lack of efficiency of Sony's online service.

This starts with the lawsuit that Xfire has brought against Gamespy. You see, Xfire believes that GameSpy Comrade's "Buddy Sync" feature is infringing on its copyrights. How does this connect to the PlayStation Network? Vrignaud says this: "This suit highlights how busted Sony's PS3 online network is, and how companies are fighting to position themselves to take advantage of this financially."

He means that online middleware companies are trying to position themselves to become the eventual de facto solution that publishers will use when online on the PS3. It's the same with the web: These companies are trying to get momentum and a large enough user base that will cause them to be the "PS3 online" solution of choice.

How is the PlayStation Network busted? Why does the PlayStation Network need "solutions" from middleware companies? Well, Vrignaud gives several reasons. In his blog he wrotes:

Even though I already have a "Sony ID", I may have to create a new "Resistance ID" (because Insomniac's Resistance has it's own list) to play. And then start thinking about just how broken the experience is when you try to invite someone to a game. Do you send it via the Resistance UI? What screenname do I send it to? If I want to add you to my "Sony ID" friends list, do I need to send you an in-game message to ask you what your real "Sony ID" name is? What about game invites? How does that work across even just these two IDs?

You think that's bad? Now let's open up a few more games from different publishers. Each of these publishers had to make a choice of what online interface to use - again, because Sony's online network just isn't ready.

Yep, his problem is with Sony's PlayStation Network, is that it is just isn't ready. Publishers will have to either write their own communications interface or license Xfire, or GameSpy, or Quazal, or Demonware. That means many potential networks with different namespaces, and an inherent lack of ability to communicate (chatting, voice, invites, finding friends, etc.) between them.

He further inquires as to what could happen if each publisher doesn't stick with the same online solution for all of their games? This is very likely as most publishers use different developers - so even across a single publisher, you may find fragmented communities.

So what's the point of the Sony ID according to him? The Sony ID gives you a lifeline to be see friends when they are online... but only in the crossbar UI.

Via Ozymandias

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He does have a point, as even I thought about this when one game was said to be using gamespy and another xfire.

Sony really just needs to pick one and force publishers to use that, and this is probably the cause of the lawsuit.

Even if this is the case, lots of people would probably put up with that hassle for free online.

# right-on! — Guest 2006-11-04 00:50

of course they are comparing sonynet to their livenet.

M$ whores think everything should be done their way.

a "splintered community" means developers have a choice, which they don't have with ms.

leave it to ms to make independance sound like a bad thing.

monopolistic propaganda!

of course they have a unified network! M$ is selling our surfing, searching, chatting and gaming habbits to marketing firms.

http://news.com.com/Microsoft+among+targets+in+online+privacy+complaint/2100-1028_3-6131472.html?tag=st_lh

# haha — Guest 2006-11-04 00:54

I guess that is why over 6 million consoles have been sold?

stupid fanboy.

# 360 - being outsold by ps2 !!! — Guest 2006-11-04 01:16

compared to how many PS2's in the same period ????? - i repeat - PS2 !!!!

# And your point is? — Guest 2006-11-04 01:34

"360 - being outsold by ps2 !!!"

I see, so the more expensive next-gen console is being outsold by the much cheaper market leader from last gen.

Are you really that stupid that you can't understand why? Hmmm, I guess so, since you brought it up.

The PS2 will probably outsell the PS3 this Christmas also. Gee, I wonder why.

# Words from M$........ — Guest 2006-11-04 01:57

I have one thing to say.......STFU M$.

I think they surprise that Sony come up with something that good and could have Xfire and gamespy in there side. Now they trying to make bad press about it.

Speaking like this just show are scare they are.

PS:Why they not talking about Wii online plan?

# I remember when — Guest 2006-11-04 02:13

xbox live was a buggt pieceof cr_ap. It took them months if not years to get it to settle down.

M$ are feeling a little stressed 'cause they know sony have a huge base and a lot of content to go. Eg. games. music, movies, etc/

I can't wait

# I have one word. Steam — Guest 2006-11-04 02:18

Steam is better than Xbox Live in terms of playing games online.

In Steam, you have a Steam ID, and different name for each games.

You might want to keep your name in CS:S with your clan name, but have a different name in DoD:S because you're in a different clan for DoD:S

Generally, I find it more fun to play on Steam

I also don't see "multiple" middlewares fighting for the throne in the future.

Sony's main one does most of the jobs, as far as I can see from the footages available now, but I'm still stuffed over why these things are happening

# I wouldn't — Phantage 2006-11-04 02:49

50 bucks a year for live is hardly expensive when it is loaded with features and runs great almost all the time. (you can even get the live for about 40 bucks a year. just shop around)

so lets see...50 bucks divided by 12 comes out to just $4.16 a month. and at 40 / 12 + $3.33 a month.

why wouldn't you want to spend that much a month to not deal with a broken online system.

# PS3 would — Spector 2006-11-04 05:48

I think PS3 would outsell PS2 this holiday season they just won't be shipping enough PS3s to do so. So basically your saying who will sell more things the guy with 4 oranges or the guy with 20 apples.

# Mudslinging — Guest 2006-11-04 05:53

This is total mudslinging on the part of M$. They know that the PS3 will totally own them in the coming year and they're just trying to spread false info. All reports say that the PS3 network is equal to or better than XBox Live. A first gen PS3 game has 40 person online play. Even current Live games can't come close to touching that. What's even better is that the PS3 network is 100% free.

Only a retard would spend money on an XBox and Live knowing that the PS3 is coming. 11/17 Next-gen begins!

# Broken? — Spector 2006-11-04 05:53

The funny thing is if you keep up on the PS3 news you know as much about Sonys new online buddy system as this MS guy does. And amazingly it's far to little to begin speculation of it as a broken system. This is just a guy who's upset that Sony is trying to take away the one thing they have one upped Sony on (which is understandable... if he was a 13 year old boy).

# ugh. — Guest 2006-11-04 06:00

Why are you guys in such denial? Can you peopel ever take negative news about a system you've never played???

What this guy said, sounds right...Its just like PS2....Sony is rushing the PS3 out, they are in over thier head....its gonna be just like PSP and PS2....

The easiest way, would to add someone to your Sony ID, and then figure out what thier ResistanceID is, and every other game you have to play wiht the system.

# dvdf — highps3 2006-11-04 07:36

You cant even invite your friends to play gears of war so i dont think there in any position to talk.

This was forced by m$ also.

We arent paying hundreds off dollars for an online service over years either, so mabe i have to fill in two passwords instead of one. Atleast im not paying 200 every 4 years for basically nothing.

# lol yah you can — soapinmouth 2006-11-04 08:04

you are obviusly in denial, so let me explain a senario where you can do what is impossible on ps3, your playing a online game in gow or playing the story line, and you seeyour friend is playing blazing angels campiegn, so you send him an invite and if he accepts, it will tell him to insert gow, and boom hes in game with u helping u play through the story or destroy an enemy team. Now once vista is released you can even send invites to people playing computer games and play cross platform, with live integrated into vista....they call it "live anywhere", because you can even send invites to windows cell phones.

# I dont expect much from sony — Guest 2006-11-04 08:09

I will agree that microsoft employees should just stop talking about the PS3, its unessesary for them to get involved in these petty mud slinging contests.

Has anyone stopped and realized that with Xfire, Gamespy and the like, there are going to be advertisements in your face when you go online? Why do you think the Sony online service will be be "free"? Its because they are letting trashy companies like gamespy use the PS3 for advertising. The whole service(the many sides of it) is going to be miserable to use.

At the risk of sounding like the PS3 hater, I think everyone is expecting a whole lot more out of the PS3 online service then what we are going to get. Lets just look at Sony's track record.

Playstation.

There was plans for online support and a keyboard being added eventually. This is one of the big reasons I bought a Playstation. It never happened.

Playstation 2.

Right at release they said they planned to release a harddrive and network adapter as add-ons for the machine. The network adapter came what, about 3 years later? It supported only a couple games, and they were terrible games. The harddrive later came out and FFXI is the ONLY game that ever made use of it. later yet, Sony released the little PS2, which cant play FFXI.

Playstation Portable.

Twisted Metal was pretty decent online, as well as one or two other games, and thats it. Other then that, the PSP is just a really crappy internet browser.

Playing "online" games on a playstation system is like a taboo. Sony has failed THREE TIMES NOW. You are absolutely out of your mind if you think they are going to get it perfectly right this time. The PS3 online service will be a horrible mess at release, it will be a pain in the butt to use, it will be frustrating, it will have advertizements, and probably only a couple games will support it.

But at least it will be free.... and apparently that makes it "as good" as xbox live, according to a lot of jackasses who post here.

# What you think... — Guest 2006-11-04 08:40

...makes no difference to the PS3 sales. The point I believe he was making is that there are MANY factors which effect console sales, cost being one of them, brand name another, available games, killer apps etc. So simply saying 360 was outsold by PS2 proves nothing and says nothing.

It's a comment which deserves the responce "So what?".

# What? — Spector 2006-11-04 09:21

PSX- still a solid system with tons of great titles.

PS2- Network adapter had plenty of good online capable titles, ever play Socom or MGS3 online, and tons of sports games (and a personal favorite of mine Amplitude the sequel to the also online game Frequency). So if you say the network adapter had nothing to it you most definately had to be trying to avoid online titles. There were two titles that made good use of the HDD btw Resident Evil: Outbreak and FFXI. There are still plenty of people palying FFXI on their PS2 HDDs also (I play FFXI and I run into lots of them). I would definately say HDD was a failure overall (not completely useless) but not the network adapter.

You say they failed 3 times when really PSP might be the only time you could say that. Take a poll on how many people bought PSX for online abilities it will be less than 5% I'd guess. I've played lots of games online with my PS2 and I know others who'd say the same so that acusation is unfounded. PSP I'll agree you on.

I think Sony will do a fairly good job with their online on PS3 and with Resistance: Fall of Manand its 40 man online play I don't know how you say at launch PS3's online gaming won't be fun.

Plus nobody has remotely mentioned putting advertising anywhere except Sony online marketplace so your just bringing up things that are pure specualtion on your half that in no way can be remotely proved.

Call yourself Realist, more like pessimist.

# ahhh.... — Shatterdome 2006-11-04 10:41

The only thing stopping dev's from making a 40+ player game on 360 is MS. MS has a set off standards for it's live games so that you get a very stable (As possible) experience, with as little lag as possible.

If resistace is not being hosted on it's on t1 or t3's, then I guarentee you will not see any 40 player games, because they will all be horribly laggy. If resistance does host their own servers, Sony is going to find out how fast expenses can rise when you do so, and how fast they can lose money with a free service.

You can't always just look at higher numbers and say they are better, stop and think of the repercussions....

# wtf — Shatterdome 2006-11-04 10:45

Yeah, where did you hear this ? This is a standard feature of ALL live enabled games, also forced by MS.

You may have gotten it mixed up with the fact you can't invite friends to RANKED games, ie. for stats and level, I know ranked games and stats, such a new concept to sony fanbois. Now if you try to challenge them not allowing friends in ranked games, then ya I hope you run out of air....

# The big thing... — Shatterdome 2006-11-04 10:52

I would like to see sony's online service work. Chances are I will get a ps3 next year or so, so it would be nice to have it function online well.

Unfortunately I am a realist, hehe, and I can't see a companies first true attempt at an online service, using various middleware for it's features, being that great.

It will probably be functional, but nothing mind blowing. Straight away, the major thing I like about live, the headset and voice comm is obviously lacking in PS3.....I can tell because they are not giving out headsets with every system. I think everyone with a 360 and live has at least two headsets, I have 3, just because microsoft wants to make sure everyone has one. It's the little things like this that matter.....also, how good are stats going to be, if there are any at all ?

# Oh yes... — Shatterdome 2006-11-04 10:55

Hail the platform that just got their friends list working after 2 years, even though the option has been sitting there (and seriously, this is the most basic thing in an online service) and the favourites and history worked off and on as well...

# Lol — SteveTao 2006-11-04 11:29

All Microsoft ever does is trash talk about it's competitors. Where's the walk, Microsoft? Lol. Sony on the other hand, is constantly working hard at providing the services costumers needs and they're constantly taking feedbacks and fixing things and making them better. Playstation Online may not be perfect now, but it'll be soon. Microsoft Live is doom! Microsoft Live is Dead! Playstation Online is the next big thing.

# What? Where? — Guest 2006-11-04 12:03

"Where's the walk, Microsoft?"

They are walking it. Doing a nice rythmic walk down the street, with disco playing in the background, while wearing gold chains, bellbottoms and all. There is a long procession of loyal buddies following along behind Mr Microsoft as he struts his stuff. He happens across a dirty filthy bum named Sony the Hobo. Rather then sony the hobo some spare change, Mr Microsoft just stops, points both fingers at him and says "You suck, buddy" and then continues his strut down the sidewalk. Microsoft is the coolest man around, and damn good dancer to boot!

Microsoft is walking the walk. Sony is talking the talk.... lots of talk, lots of promises, lots of braging... but in over 10 years, they have never walked the walk. Sony will never fit into Microsofts platform shoes.

# no worries here! — Guest 2006-11-04 12:12

you know why the PS2 online didn't become successful as much as XBL? because PS2 network adapter is an add on that you attach in the back of your PS2 system. and most gamers doesn't want to shell out $50 for you to play online games. still, millions of gamers plays SOCOM, Final Fantasy Online, Reside Evil Online, Madden, NBALIVE as a proof that PS2 online service was never a failure after all.

now PS3 online service is different. you can play online games right away out of the box with your PS3 system. developers can create games that has an online feature on it immediately.

now, if some people here says that you cannot contact you friend using your PS3 user ID immediately as what XBL do. its no a big deal really. you can either wait for him to go and play the same game as you do, call him up on the phone, or email him. its simple as that....geez.

# . — Guest 2006-11-04 12:28

360 Sucks. And people wonder why the 360 doesn't sell well in Japan. Japanese people are smart they know a piece of ***** when they see it.

# Spector — Guest 2006-11-04 12:28

There is nothing Pessimist about it buddy. I have been with Playstation for what, 10 years now? I have also been a PC gamer for about as long. I have seen what Sony does, I have seen what Gamespy does. The playstation library is swolen with japanese developers, and I have seen what they like to do.

Few japanese developers have ever had an interest in online gameplay. Sure there are a few out there, FFXI is the most notable one, but the reality is, you will likely see some japanese fighters like Tekken with some crappy online support. More then likely, The most popular PS3 online games will be american in origin, and most american developers seem to have more interest in the 360.

I am a realist. I would like to see Sony succede (finally) in the online world, but all things considered, all they currently have are big promises, a poor track record, and middleware that I have never liked in the past. Only its release will finally prove the success or failure of PS3 online. My own speculation means little, but I think Sony is trying to climb out of a deep hole they have dug themselves, and they will likely be more successful with the PS4, 6+ years from now.

# yeah realist... — ContrAss 2006-11-04 14:06

you'll never see tekken on 360 so don't worry about any standards for online fighting. Secondly, shut up. You're defending a console, which sucks so hard in japan, that it’s price has fallen to that of a psp--which is too say, psp is still outselling 360 in japan. So in 100 ways of brutal shoalin arts i say STFU.

Also to anybody who thinks this matters then answer yourself "why did i buy a ps2"? Ummm...maybe you bought it for the games? The single player experience? the joy of a adventure/action/rpg?

Ozymandias is comparing this as apple to apple--cause it's next-gen--but what he and you aren't putting into account is that microsoft's focus is it's online capabilities, while Sony will have those great single player games AND THE ABILITY to go online.

Besides, didn't ign just post a article about how xfire is there but not necessary?

# the point is — Guest 2006-11-04 17:50

ps2 outsold 360!!! thats the point.

# Haha — Guest 2006-11-04 18:14

They Both Suck!!!!!!!!!!! Pc Gaming Rules!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

# asdf — Guest 2006-11-04 18:53

Why is that you PS3 Fanboys talk so abstractly.... We're trying to give you the facts and yet you still are in denial. I mean, can you guys be a bit more constructive here, for example "You say 360 sucks", yet you fail to provide statistics or reason for why. Saying its "a piece of *****" really says nothing to me besides the fact that you need to just shut the ***** up and don't ever talk again. Maybe you forgot the the 360 Blue Dragon edition that sold out within a day (10,000 Systems) plus another 90,000 regular ones (100,000) That's just in japan.

Old gen always outsells next gen, you must be on crack if you thought that as soon as next-gen come out it should outsell everything. 1080p TVs anyone? How many people are buying them??? I mean aren't they next gen?

Nothing in this world is free. You Ps3 freaks are like little zombies "Thank you sony for providing free service with no lag, best features EVER possibly imagined" Well, remember, they want to make a profit. And:

1. It will suck = Free

2. They'll make it good = Won't be free

Simple as that. It's like as if someone has committed a crime. Someone will obviously go to a prison. Same scenario here, who the ***** will do all this for free. Sony? Yea definitely, because they are so financially stable right now (94% profit drop!) [/Sarcasm]. Just face it, you can't beat Xbox live. I bet most of you are just talking ***** out of your ass. You can't say ***** to me, because Xbox Live is out, physically and PS Online is just talks and promises. So can't really draw any conclusions from that.......

# ps2 all over again — Guest 2006-11-04 19:12

basically they are doing almost the exact same thing as they did for ps2 except the network adapter...comes with it.. whoopdee*****in gdoo..

leaving it up to the publishers is a BAD idea...

# Well.. — Guest 2006-11-04 19:19

Because Sony and Microsoft are watching each other more than Nintendo. Nintendo isn't really important to them, but they may prove to be.

Its like when the United States and Russia watching each other in the Cold War. +P

# Meh... — Guest 2006-11-04 19:25

Sony knows what they are doing and getting into, don't lecture us on what Sony could lose or else they would not be giving a free sevice. When Resistance is out and people are playing 40 players games i'm guessing you'll be surprised. People are likely to try out a 24-32 player game instead of a 40, but hey we'll see what happens.

# Hmm... — Guest 2006-11-04 19:35

Does Sony really promise things? Does Microsoft promise things? I believe they plan to do things and if it doesn't go well then either scrap or delay the project right? Microsoft has been saying 1080p was nothing special and i believe they said they didn't want it at first and now what they add it to 360 as an update. I'm sorry if i'm against Microsoft most times but i'm only saying what i hear +P. Sony can recieve all the bad publicity they want but it doesn't affect the masses of gamer's decision willing to buy it.

Personally, the only thing i've ever complimented on Xbox was Halo and Ninja Gaiden. I wanted to get 360 if they were going to have NG but it seems its coming to PS3.

# asdf... — ContrAss 2006-11-04 19:44

to put it bluntly-you're speaking like a true sony fanboi. If you didn't ketch that, it means you're no better. Anyways, statistics aint gonna lie, blue dragon sold out. THATS *****ING GREAT RIGHT?! Oh? oh wait...what happens after that...huh... oh nothing. So asdf, say microsoft sold roughly 100,000 consoles for 1 title, how much did microsoft sell for a whole friggin launch?

And jesus zanz, pull your head out of your ass! I'd never go online if my ps3 didn't have a network adapter so 1 point to sony-they got one person on board. Now how many more you think will join in? I think your math will improve after this lesson zanz, no need to thank me.

# Hmmm — Spector 2006-11-04 20:45

Cold War do you say...

(cues the MGS3 theme)

Snake you can do it!

# ok whats your point — soapinmouth 2006-11-04 21:37

360 outsells psp in Germany, why is japan so special?

# .... — soapinmouth 2006-11-04 21:40

who the ***** cares about japan, as far as I know none of you are living in japan.

# ugh — soapinmouth 2006-11-04 21:45

ok do you really like playing all out wr games with 32 on 32 get battlefield if u want 50 on 50 get Huxley, both for 360 btw, but for me when i play battlefield i only join the games with below 28ish people, even with the enormous maps, because i like being a big part of the team and not being some little drone who if sat there the whole game nobody would notice....plus u die too fast with more ppl.

# TIME PARADOX — KirbySS 2006-11-04 22:33

Snake, what have you done! You can't go changing the future like that! You'll create a time paradox!

# I believe — Guest 2006-11-05 01:02

I believe xbox 360 can be a success in Japan, maybe it will not sell as well as playstation 3 or nintendo wii but that does not mean it cannot be successful and as for xbox live versus playstation online, it is simple, playstation online can be a good online service, but it will be playing catch-up to xbox live in terms of features and functionality as microsoft has had a five year head start.

# ps2 outsold xbox 360 because.... — Guest 2006-11-05 04:07

the ps2 breaks every couple months, so your warrenty is up so you have to by another one, and so on and so on.

# Contra... — Shatterdome 2006-11-05 18:18

I don't give a sh*t what the Japanese do, they are elitist, racist bastards, and if you knew anything about them then you know the main reason they do not buy it is because it's an american company. Since the americans came in and started forcing their culture upon the japanese, they really don't like them much anymore...

Next time you try to sound big and cool, try learning to spell first. It's always interesting when a little sh*t tries to talk big, but makes himself look more like an ass due to his lack of intelligence, grammar and spelling.....idiots FTW!!!11!! LAWL !!!

# Once again... — Shatterdome 2006-11-05 18:27

You come off sounding like a sexually frustrated pre-pubecent boy.

He is talking about pre-orders, the game has not even been released yet....also see my other response to you above....it's going to take alot to get the japanese to admit or even consider that an american piece of hardware is superior to their precious japanese Sony....

# $ony fanboys are pathetic — Guest 2006-11-06 06:42

Microsoft seems to know more about P$3's online service than you idiots. Of course they want it to sound worse, but their arguments are true. $ony has made deliberate lies about XBOX 360's price being more than PS3's with "required" accessories like seperate wireless controller, HDDVD drive, and hard drive. It seems $ony has a better plan with the PS3 than the PS2, but you can expect huge comprimises to be made with a free service. Nothing is free. Do you think this is a gift from $ony because they are nice? Even if you're not paying out of pocket for it, it will have advertising out the ass. Pop ups, spyware, who knows? The online networks on all their other systems suck ass. Microsoft had it right almost from the beginning with the last-gen XBOX. PS3 has all new technology that's sure to have problems. This should be obvious by how much they've cut back shipments. Better get the extended warranty with the early systems!

# JESUES CHRIST FAN BOYS — Guest 2006-11-07 08:33

It so hard to read these posts and think there are actually people this ignorant and this devoted to a system that they would sell their soul to prove a point.

I have a 360, ill be getting a ps3 and wii eventaully but right now im content with all the asskicking games comming out for the 360. A true gamer knows no boundries. A true game makes sure they get the gaming experience they can out of everything (read: all 3 systems) available. If you cant afford it, no biggie, so long as you arnt bashing everyone and everything that has to do with the other consoles. I cant tell which fanboys are worse, microsoft or sony.

The 360 is being outdsold by the ps2 right now because A)its so damn cheap and B)its the leading system of last gens consoles. I work at a game/dvd store, we sell ps2s all the time. You wanna know to who? People who are just now able to afford it because its so cheap. So the ps2 sells like hotcakes to those who are not as well off as others.

Also now that microsoft has got its supply of 360s being steadily shipped out so you cant walk into a store and find it sold out. Who do you think is gonna outsell who if the ps3 is reported to have shortages. The ps3 is going to get bought up by everyone with a preorder/time on their hands to camp out a store. That will run out, and parents, chidlren and others will grow tired of waiting, its christmas, i want my system, so heres and xbox 360. Youll get ps3 for your birthday or next christmas.

Finally take a look at this http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=212

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