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Sony: Arc easier to code for than Natal

Posted Feb 23, 2010 at 10:56AM EST by Karl B.

Listed in: PS3, Xbox 360 Tags: Microsoft, Natal, playstation 3 updates, ps3 motion controller, rob dyer, SCEA, Sony

ps3-mc

This year will mark Microsoft and Sony's full-fledged entry into the motion controlled gaming space. Both Natal and "Arc" already have their own stable of developers ready to churn out games, but according to SCEA's Rob Dyer, the fact that their motion controller is easier to code for than Natal will result in a more robust PS3 lineup for Sony.

"From a third-party perspective it's easier to develop for, you can use the same code base that you currently use for PS3 or 360 or even the Wii in order to get a motion controller game out," Dyer told Industry Gamers. "You can't do that with Natal.

"You have to have a completely separate code base and my feeling is that we're going to have a lot more games, a lot more innovation – particularly with the camera and the precision – versus what you'll have with Natal or the Wii. We can all sit around here and debate that... but the fact is I'm not having any trouble getting third-party support."

Dyer also assured PS3 owners that "more games" doesn't mean the PS3 will be flooded with shovelware.

"I can assure you that's not what you're going to see. The fact that we use a camera changes everything. I think the press has forgotten that Sony has been using a camera [for a long time]. This is now our second iteration of it. We know what the consumer wants with regards to using a camera and whether they want something in their hands or not.

"I think Natal will have some great games on that system that'll work well without implements, and we're going to have what we think are better games because we have a lot more learning from [the camera]. We've done this for a long time... it's not our first foray into this business."

The PS3 motion controller, codenamed "Arc", is currently tracking a Fall 2010 release. It's also set to be introduced at the Game Developers Conference next month.

Via [Industry Gamers]

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Its nothing like the wii

The Wii remote has to be pointed towards the screen inorder to have any point operation

The Arc, you can point behind you, and it will be registered, i can think of a lot more use for it

at the moment accurate wii motions are restricted to a movement of a small angle in front of, Imagine pulling a sidearm from your pocket, or a sword from other you shoulder

It is the best Motion Sensor at the moment (but i still believe its quite pathetic, motion sensing controls need a whole new infrastructure , true VR, either were going to need some major, major medical breakthroughs, or a high tech large machine. the machine being very expensive. Theres no point going into motion sensing half ass)

also to go back to the pulling a sidearm, youd have to rely on the accelerometer of the wii, to many of those moments would be to identical, so it wouldnt be practical.

The Arc could bring Gaming to the Blind
Imagine surround sound headphones, for pinpointing the enemy left the arc, shoot.

-6 # RE: mmm — pspg2000 2010-02-23 15:52

Nothing?

The design is quite stupid of "Arc" but ok, and as you said it's an improved Wii motion controller.

This won't be anything extraordinary.

+1 # RE: RE: mmm — truk 2010-02-23 18:22

Quoting pspg2000:

Nothing?

The design is quite stupid of "Arc" but ok, and as you said it's an improved Wii motion controller.

This won't be anything extraordinary.

how is it stupid? we haven't even seen the final design..

Quote:

The Arc, you can point behind you, and it will be registered, i can think of a lot more use for it

i dont think so. the ps3 eye has to be able to see the "sensor" on the conroller

-3 # ur dumb — Guest 2010-02-23 20:43

its not a sensor. ... its a light. thats it. and the camera can register it has passed behind something because its a CAMERA and can do visual operations.. the wii is picking up the IR off the tv attachment. so u need to see it. so stfu noob

-1 # ur smart — truk 2010-02-23 22:26

Quoting WTFC:

its not a sensor. ... its a light. thats it. and the camera can register it has passed behind something because its a CAMERA and can do visual operations.. the wii is picking up the IR off the tv attachment. so u need to see it. so stfu noob

wow!!! i didnt know the eye had an xray feature!!! COOL DOODZ!!!! so you're saying i can hide behind my kitchen wall and the ps3 eye will still be to able to see the sens--i mean light? SHUT THE FFFFFFFFFFFFFFF FFFRONT DOOR!!! SONY YOU DID IT AGAIN!! ALL THESE FOOLS TALKING TRASH DONT EVEN KNOW THE POWER OF THE ARC! BEWARE ALL THOSE WHO OPPOSE ARC! ITS XRAY EYE WILL GIVE YOU CANCER!

-2 # your gaY — Guest 2010-02-24 01:22

It doesnt use the camera to sense where it is dickhead. The camera senses where you are, as with the Dual Shock 3 controllers, you can use the Arc in another room, it uses bluetooth like the DS3, are you gay? the camera doesnt sense the controller, that would take like 1 whole second to regester onto the screen. Good try on making him look like a dick when you dont even understand it yourself.

+1 # gay? — truk 2010-02-24 21:13

how is what i'm saying gay? the dude even mentions it uses Quoting Retarded?:

It doesnt use the camera to sense where it is dickhead. The camera senses where you are, as with the Dual Shock 3 controllers, you can use the Arc in another room, it uses bluetooth like the DS3, are you gay? the camera doesnt sense the controller, that would take like 1 whole second to regester onto the screen. Good try on making him look like a dick when you dont even understand it yourself.

aQuoting Retarded?:

It doesnt use the camera to sense where it is dickhead. The camera senses where you are, as with the Dual Shock 3 controllers, you can use the Arc in another room, it uses bluetooth like the DS3, are you gay? the camera doesnt sense the controller, that would take like 1 whole second to regester onto the screen. Good try on making him look like a dick when you dont even understand it yourself.

how is anything i was saying gay? that alone makes your comment stupid.

how arc works:
1. controller emits a light
2. camera reads where the light is

but based on your explanation, the arc does not need to use the camera at all but as we all know, the camera is vital in using arc.

+2 # but how would he know? — usjbroly 2010-02-23 12:24

he might be able to compare it to the wii but i don't think he'd know natals programming structure. plus he's from Sony, so he's biased. we need a third party to verify this.

-5 # RE: but how would he know? — pspg2000 2010-02-23 14:02

Yeah, insiders tend to say the best from their company, and bash the others.

If you go ask opinion to a PS3 fan/gamer, he'd probably say it's the best and the others suck, which isn't true.

+1 # mmm — Guest 2010-02-23 14:18

I would day he probably knows natals programming structure.

However he is biased, i hate when biased people make comments. (It takes away from the thing)

also i cant see natal taking of, ( havnt read much about it, but the hardware seems like the EyeToy++, or PSEYE+)

-3 # RE: mmm — pspg2000 2010-02-23 15:53

English please.

-1 # Hmm — FatTrousers 2010-02-23 19:44

Yeah, I think his keyboard is probably broken...or he's just lazy.

+2 # ??? — Guest 2010-02-23 12:34

Isnt Natal the same as the Eye Create? The two doesnt use any kind of controler... i do think that sony droped the support for the Eye Create because they do realise that for a game to be compeling and other things, the player should have some kind of imput for the game to go a little deeper than that shitty Eye Create interactivy games. Thats why some experience on this bussines counts, and i do think that sony are a little more experienced than MS on this. Plus, its easier to see that the fact that programing a compeling game without a controler to make the bridge between the player and the game are very hard on a design point of view, i mean, who will clap their hands just to change a weapon? I will not, cause its ridiculous and boring. Another is the fact that i do see some ports coming to the "ARC" that could be very lucrative on Japan, like Dragon Quest Swords and some other RPGs, and another fact is that it is a matter of design to make the ports, than a programing problem, cause for the developers to make a port for "ARC" is easier than for Natal, on a design point of view. But, I do hope that Sony dont drop the support for ARC like they do with the Eye Create Project, cause they are a hard to work company on a developer point of view, much more than MS on this matter and Sony only goes "easier" on their terms and Quality Assurance, with regard a game approval, when they put efforts on something, like hoping to create a big userbase, sadly we dont see any efforts on the Eye Create in regarding development support for the 3rd parties and im worried that they do the same mistake with the Arc.

# Yeah sure whatever — Guest 2010-02-23 17:19

I believe the thing you call here "Eye Create" is EyeToy, Sony's previous endeavour to the world of motion sensing, and that was just a camera which they used to project the image on the screen and see when there was movement in the picture. The camera was great though, I shot all my YouTube PSP videos and sh*t with it, and I still use it as a webcam for my desktop PC (ChatRoulette much?). I think Natal and Arc are going to be great for the end user, although I haven't been following either one that much so I don't know how they work compared to the Wii's motion sensing. I have heard that they are superior though? But yeah, Mr. Dyer's comments about the Arc and the ease of coding/porting code for it seems really biased like many of other commenters pointed out. We'll just have to see how Microsoft or some third-party dev responds to this for sure. Not having a PS3, nor planning to get one any time soon (please, do not die on me Xbox 360), I am of course more interested in Natal. I'm sure Arc will be great as well, if not even better. Sony and Microsoft are definitely coming into the motion-sensing market at the right moment, seeing as Nintendo has already defined the technology with their Wii, and their competitors are now *expanding* their own systems with this ability. What I mean is that when Wii is basically all about the motion-sensing, the 360 and PS3 have have lots of other stuff going for them, and also motion-sensing. For a price, of course. Which will hopefully not be too high, or the whole concept might fail. Sports games and such, like Wii's Wii Sports and such would definitely benefit both Arc and Natal, and determining by the recent Natal product placement on one very popular TV show, something like this is already in the works. I have been comparing the Arc and Natal to the Wii here, but to be honest I have no clue if they're even remotely similar. To end my long and boring comment, I have to say that I am bored and would suggest that everyone on the comments section would break their comment to smaller segments for easy readability. Do not type like I and Viingador did. Seriously. Don't.

+3 # ur dumb — Guest 2010-02-23 20:45

use paragraphs. my retina's hurt

# ur smart — truk 2010-02-23 22:27

Quoting WTFC:

use paragraphs. my retina's hurt

are you sure it wasnt because you were staring at the ps3 eye? i hear it can give you cancer cause it has xray ability

# ewwww — Tevin 2010-02-23 12:44

the joystick is ugly tho....
why does it have a big lightbulb on it...

-3 # RE: ewwww — pspg2000 2010-02-23 13:19

If it doesn't work out for gaming industry, then send it to sex shops.

+1 # Did anyone forgot to mention — Vman00 2010-02-23 21:50

It is in a its development stages, meaning it is not the finish product aka final design.

# There's something you don't see from MS — hush404 2010-02-23 12:56

A Sony rep actually saying "Yeah, MS will prob have some great stuff, but BRING it! We're ready to fight!!"

Honestly, you never see MS say that. MS sticks to the ol "F|_|CK everyone!!! We're the best!"

+2 # RE: There's something you don't see from MS — Jack450 2010-02-23 14:57

Quoting hush404:

A Sony rep actually saying "Yeah, MS will prob have some great stuff, but BRING it! We're ready to fight!!"

Honestly, you never see MS say that. MS sticks to the ol "F|_|CK everyone!!! We're the best!"

They never do cause they hide behind Sony If it weren't for Sony they would've never drop the price on the 360 and it's funny that they will be dropping the price again when "Arc" is release.

# agree — Guest 2010-02-23 13:12

I agree with hi,, eventhough his Sony, he's probably right. It's like the joystick thing but with more parametres, you just have to add an input i guess (i'm not a dev)

+4 # RE: Sony: Arc easier to code for than Natal — Chilloutcolin 2010-02-23 13:15

Lets face it, the purpose of these motion controllers is to try and win over some of nintendos market base. i.e the casual market and kids. Now put yourself in the shoes of some stupid kid. He looks at the arc, sees a funny looking wii controller which he already has.He doesnt care that its way more precise or that it has higher specs and potential.He looks at the natal sees a something new, a completly new way for him jump around his living room and break his tv.

BTW I think both motion controls will depends on the titles that are developed for them and the support they recieve.

My opinion anyway

# RE: RE: Sony: Arc easier to code for than Natal — Jack450 2010-02-23 15:22

Quoting Chilloutcolin:

Lets face it, the purpose of these motion controllers is to try and win over some of nintendos market base. i.e the casual market and kids. Now put yourself in the shoes of some stupid kid. He looks at the arc, sees a funny looking wii controller which he already has.He doesnt care that its way more precise or that it has higher specs and potential.He looks at the natal sees a something new, a completly new way for him jump around his living room and break his tv.

BTW I think both motion controls will depends on the titles that are developed for them and the support they recieve.

My opinion anyway

You do realise that the Natal will cost around at least $150, right? Even if that kid wants it, I highly doubt any parent is really going to cough up that dough for a small ass camera that will only work with limited games. Now, when you think about it, Microsoft seems more like they are trying to win some of Nintendo's Market, why would MS create Natal if their main line of games are all FPS type. I can imagine the lag people will get by playing FPS with Natal, reloading, shooting, aiming, frag some with a grenade.

# MS are crazy — Chilloutcolin 2010-02-23 20:54

if they put a $150 price tag on it considering as the arcade is only like $199 now. Yeah I dont see natal working with fps games really. Not without another peripheral(or some seriously imaginative control scheme) like a gun or something. Fair enough natal might recognise a toy gun as a gun but it would need some way of knowing when your pulling the trigger, pictures someone holding the gun and aiming with one hand and waving at the screen with the other

,

Like I said before I think its really down to the games released for them. I'd be interested to see if the arc can pull off a proper samurai/sword fighting game.

# Hmm... Interesting thought. — Guest 2010-02-23 13:24

I agree with usjbroly. The truth is that the developer aren't creating games for the waggle device. They will be developing for the ps3 and their wand. It has been clear that development for the ps3 has always been the more challenging of the three consoles. That will still be there. On that same note, Sony has always felt that the difficulty of developing for the ps3 is worth it because of it's capabilities. Now the shoe is on the other foot and all we really get is a bunch of pr bs untill we actually get the devices in our hands and decide which one is worth the cost and provide the most enjoyable experiences.

-1 # Hm. — Teivin 2010-02-23 13:29

So devs can use the already existing, admittedly really hard to code for and optimize PS3 SDK for arc, or have to use a completely different SDK for Natal. I don't see the issue here. It's already been shown that devs working on PS3 code doing a good job requires a lot of time.

Even if Natal is harder, then maybe they might just end up equal in terms of 'difficulty'.

I'm not saying PS3 is exactly a challenge, it's more just it takes a different approach then anything else, so it takes more work.

-1 # ... — symbal 2010-02-23 14:37

Developers already know how to code for the Wiimote so they just have to get their head round the Ps3's SDK which has never been an easy job, at least M$ is trying something different unlike Playstation which in it's 15 year history has had almost no innovations and mostly just copy ideas from Nintendo.

-3 # RE: ... — pspg2000 2010-02-23 15:54

True.

+1 # ..... — Guest 2010-02-23 17:27

Sure, copy ideas from nintendo...
EVERY CONSOLE HAS COPIED IDEAS FROM ANOTHER. THAT IS A FACT.

Now, Sony's PS1 was the first console ever to use CD's and not cartridges. Everyone else followed. First sega then ninty and MS.

Right now, MS is copying Sony by making their own camera for their console and Sony is copying Nintendo by making their own motion controller. However, sony already had motion controllers. They are their current controllers. SIXAXIS.

-1 # RE: ..... — pspg2000 2010-02-23 21:10

LOL you are so funny by saying PS1 was the first console to ever use CD's ahahaha, you better do some research.

I could list a few for you but it's a waste of time, like writing this message is.

# RE: ..... — Guest 2010-02-24 13:00

Ps1 What? are you sure?
Do some research

# well... — Guest 2010-02-24 17:07

Actually Sega CD came out with an add-on to the Genesis 3 years prior, which was competing with TurboGrafx16's CD add-on. Also notable that the "PlayStation" was originally contracted to be an add-on for the SNES. The PS1 was the first standalone CD console, but not the inventors of it by far.

+3 # quick reminder.. — truk 2010-02-23 18:26

Quoting symbal:

Developers already know how to code for the Wiimote so they just have to get their head round the Ps3's SDK which has never been an easy job, at least M$ is trying something different unlike Playstation which in it's 15 year history has had almost no innovations and mostly just copy ideas from Nintendo.

ps2 eye toy. innovation

+1 # ....any LAG? — Afrit 2010-02-23 17:17

I don't see any problem with the prototype design of Arc; the ball shape is needed so the color can be registered by the camera at any angulation.

I just I hope it doesn't lag much in response.

as Natal lag calculated to be a tenth of a second
(www.engadget.com/2010/02/23/microsofts-project-natal-lag-calculated-to-be-a-tenth-of-a-seco/)

Anyway if u care to see something better than Arc check "Razer Sixense" which is based on magnetic field and it looks bad ass.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=auHSErC6ssE&feature=fvw

Another video playing left4dead
www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VBMEN5Bvpg

+1 # Other ways to utilise the camera — Guest 2010-02-23 17:32

I wish SKYPE would come to the PS3, then I could get more use out of the camera instead of it just collecting dust under the TV.

# Is anyone suprised — Guest 2010-02-23 20:15

The ARC should be easyer to code. It is a controller and programers are used to coding for controllers.

Natal is much more inventive because it's a gaming device that has never been avalible to the public. Voice recognition,2 3d depth cameras, and an onboard cpu chip. (sony eye toy was just a webcam nothing more)

# Not really the controller — Vman00 2010-02-23 21:55

More like the camera and the PS3

# We know what the consumer wants with regards to using a camera — Techni 2010-02-23 22:17

Games?

# Arc — Guest 2010-02-24 08:40

Looks like a dildo, bad design

# Well... — Guest 2010-02-24 13:23

Okay so if its easier to program then that may also lead to limitations in certain boundaries... Natal offers whole body movement capturing head neck arms and leg movements. now i Know you "ps3 fan boys" swear up and down that ps3 is better. When Xbox's Service and Live capabilities are better then ps3.

On the ps3 online. Ive played your "big" titles MGO and socom confrontation. Both which both games had vicious lag. And you cant say i have a bad connection cause my router is in my room and i have comcast. Now with cross platforms. MW2 for ps3 the controller and the lobbies both were inadequate. Compared to that of xbox 360.

Back to arc and natal's capabilities. With full body motion. They could make a new elder scrolls game using the natal. I'm sure Bethesda's looking into it. how cool would it be to actually have a sword /magic fight online using natal? you wouldn't be limited to gust 3 times of swings. Arc probably wouldn't be able to do that. There going back to my limitation to capabilities.

Online play... The reason i was talking about ps3 live and xbox live before... if ps3 live and their servers cant handle MW2 how will it fare with like a realistic shooter with arc? Thats why Xbox's natal will have a much bigger Impact in the video game industry...

# RE: Well... — Afrit 2010-02-24 15:58

Quoting Rayn1089:

Back to arc and natal's capabilities. With full body motion. They could make a new elder scrolls game using the natal. I'm sure Bethesda's looking into it. how cool would it be to actually have a sword /magic fight online using natal? you wouldn't be limited to gust 3 times of swings. Arc probably wouldn't be able to do that. There going back to my limitation to capabilities.

mate don't over hype.. u can't do fast and accurate combo with natal as the lag will accumulate.
I mentioned that here before.. Natal lag calculated to be a tenth of a second
([url:error])

at least until they fix it , and they have the time to do so .. same thing goes for Arc.

# Hoping for wii-ports! =D — davidg 2010-02-24 18:15

Not that I like wii games that much, but it'd be cool to have a big load of wii 3rd party games ported to the ps3 in HD. I hope there controller is as responsive as they say.

# RE: Sony: Arc easier to code for than Natal — Guest 2010-02-24 19:27

I would get this if it didn't look like a dildo lol, but hey who do you think started the trend in the motion controller in the first place, sony. Remember the Eye toy.

blast from the past.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfbMxcJHJAw

The wii wasn't the first.

# as for lag issues... — Guest 2010-02-24 23:19

calibration isnt really that hard to fix honestly. Games like guitar hero and rock band have that and an elder scrolls natal is already in the wood works

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Sony: Arc easier to code for than Natal

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