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Other OS removal may mean collateral damage for US Air Force

Posted May 12, 2010 at 2:32PM EST by Glenn M.

Listed in: PS3 Tags: firmware, other os, playstation 3 updates, Supercomputer

ps3s Just to refresh your memory, the United States Air Force purchased 336 PS3s in 2008 for cell processor research. They loved it so much that they sought to buy 2,200 more to further their supercomputer research - they got only 1,700 in January 2010. But with the removal of the Install Other OS feature, things aren't exactly boding well.

At first glance, the firmware update doesn't appear to be a problem for the Air Force PS3s - they have no need to login to PSN and they sure as hell won't need to organize trophies. But what if the consoles are in need of repair?

Ars Technica went and spoke with the US Air Force Research Laboratory on the matter, and as it turns out, even the folks over there aren't happy with the controversial firmware update. "We will have to continue to use the systems we already have in hand," a representative told Ars, "but this will make it difficult to replace systems that break or fail. The refurbished PS3s also have the problem that when they come back from Sony, they have the firmware (gameOS) and it will not allow Other OS, which seems wrong. We are aware of class-action lawsuits against Sony for taking away this option on systems that use to have it."

[via Ars Technica]

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Well if White Knight 2 comes with the original WK it could as well be because of inventory costs, don't really know how WK did on the shelves but review wise it did poorly, and as having a lot of inventory is a huge cost to companies giving it away with another purchase could be a way to lessen the costs.

So if WK did poorly on the shelves then yeah thats a company only caring for their wallets and not their costumers.

# RE: Level 5 — Snaku 2010-05-13 15:22

White Knight. Didn't they rig it so you can't change your character's appearance during the game, just so they could sell you a $5 dlc that lets you do it? Oh, and that dlc is a one-shot. If you wanna' change it again, then you have to pay again! Even if WKC was the best game ever made with a 10/10 review score, I would never buy a game from a company that pulls crap like that.

Now Media Molecule is a company that treats their customers well. A few of their dlc items have seemed a bit overpriced, but most have been perfectly reasonable, and some even seem UNDER-priced. Add to that constant updates/bug fixes as well as a free creator's pack (which added some very useful tools), and you've got a company that goes the extra mile to support its customers. I've bought almost every single dlc for lbp and I've never felt like I was being ripped off.

Of course Mm is part of Sony now so....

# hahaha — Guest 2010-05-12 16:11

YES! AIR FORCE! OBLITERATE!!!!! !!!!!!

-3 # RE: Other OS removal may mean collateral damage for US Air Force — Guest 2010-05-12 16:19

update doesnt mean their ps3 will be affected only yours

-3 # RE: Other OS removal may mean collateral damage for US Air Force — Guest 2010-05-12 16:28

>.>

if the processor is what the airforce wants, why dont those idiots just make a deal with sony were they can just purchase those processors?

+3 # cost effectiveness — Shabbypenguin 2010-05-12 16:48

one of the reasons why the original xbox was used for so much stuff is that it packed a punch for a cheap solution, the ps3 has lots of power the same power if in a desktop would be well more then 300 bucks...

# RE: cost effectiveness — MangoScango 2010-05-12 19:00

It's not sonys processor...

+1 # Thats Right — Guest 2010-05-12 23:58

It's ibm's Processor - but the only COST EFFECTIVE solution for implementation is PS3. Give us our other os back sony, we'll be good

+1 # RE: Thats Right — Walo 2010-05-13 09:25

yeah a quick look at the IBM Cell Blade prices will tell you how cost effective a PS3 is.

# well... — Guest 2010-05-13 17:45

sony probably won't do anything about this though, because with the hardware costs sony sells ps3s at a loss. that's why it's cost effective. sony loses money for every ps3 they buy, so they bank on the fact that liscenses for games and dlc and such end up being sold along with. otheros was just something they hoped to use to convince buyers, and now that geohotz has done something to get around their nazi-ness, it's gone. i wish this wasn't the truth though. =/

# RE: RE: Other OS removal may mean collateral damage for US Air Force — Guest 2010-05-18 02:18

Fact is Sony only sells the prossesor in PS3 systems. Yout want it you have to buy a PS3. A strong selling point to help their PS3 sales.

# A Question — Guest 2010-05-12 16:28

I may be completely wrong about this, but technically, Sony has the right now to remove a feature from the PS3, but when they removed Other OS, they did not have that in their EULA. So in a way, does that not seem kinda wrong?

# Yes — FreePlay 2010-05-12 16:50

They did. It's been there for a while.

-5 # RE — Guest 2010-05-12 16:44

To be fair, it's not likely these machines are on the internet and given firmware updates for game compatability.

+3 # RE: RE — Musev 2010-05-12 19:10

Put your reading glasses on and try again.

# ummm — hush404 2010-05-12 17:02

Would it not be logical for Sony to just make a deal with them to keep the old firmware on the machine??? I mean really, the military calls up and says "We need this"... I'd think Sony would oblige.

-1 # RE: Other OS removal may mean collateral damage for US Air Force — hush404 2010-05-12 17:04

Quoting Matthew Warner:

I may be completely wrong about this, but technically, Sony has the right now to remove a feature from the PS3, but when they removed Other OS, they did not have that in their EULA. So in a way, does that not seem kinda wrong?

Well, it's not like the other OS just goes away when Sony says so. It's up to you if you want to update to the new firmware and in that EULA it no doubt states that they have every right on the planet to remove or add what ever they want. When you install that updated firmware you are agreeing to those rules.

+2 # RE: RE: Other OS removal may mean collateral damage for US Air Force — Guest 2010-05-12 17:52

EULA's are not legally binding, even in the USA, go off and research. No court worldwide has recognised a 'Click to Agree' especially if a feature is removed.

+2 # lol — vizard00 2010-05-12 19:21

Quoting hush404:

Quoting Matthew Warner:
I may be completely wrong about this, but technically, Sony has the right now to remove a feature from the PS3, but when they removed Other OS, they did not have that in their EULA. So in a way, does that not seem kinda wrong?

Well, it's not like the other OS just goes away when Sony says so. It's up to you if you want to update to the new firmware and in that EULA it no doubt states that they have every right on the planet to remove or add what ever they want. When you install that updated firmware you are agreeing to those rules.

lets remove wifi from iphone
lets remove usb from psp
lets remove LAn from xbox 360and make it 100% wifi

if any company do as it like , we are done .

-4 # RE: lol — Guest 2010-05-12 21:11

You are talking like it's an ESSENTIAL feature. But it's not, so shut up.

Learn the difference between essential and optional.

+1 # RE: RE: lol — Walo 2010-05-13 09:27

that's not the point, and you know that.

+1 # Also — UltimaXIX 2010-05-18 11:37

Who are you to tell us what's essential and what's optional? Who sets the threshold for when a feature stops being essential and becomes a mere perk?

# RE: Other OS removal may mean collateral damage for US Air Force — Guest 2010-05-12 17:20

Come guys you honestly think that sony is just going to turn around and flip off USAF no way. I'm sure sony knows a way to to keep the FW the same, especially if sony knows why they are using it

# RE: RE: Other OS removal may mean collateral damage for US Air Force — Musev 2010-05-12 19:19

Why? the us af only got them to save money and people using them like this was probably part of the real reason for removing that feature. remember Sony make more money through software and the us af arent buying games for these ps3's are they.

What would Sony have to gain exactly? especially as they were selling them at a loss in the first place and dont even make them anymore.

If anything the us af were costing Sony money by doing what they did/do

+3 # RE: Other OS removal may mean collateral damage for US Air Force — Guest 2010-05-12 17:29

The Airforce Ia m sure can develop an agreement with Sony.

+2 # RE: Other OS removal may mean collateral damage for US Air Force — MangoScango 2010-05-12 19:01

I can't help but laugh at this

# RE: Other OS removal may mean collateral damage for US Air Force — Guest 2010-05-12 19:14

Its time for the air force to upgrade ah, why not the new amd 12core cpu's, knowing they out perform the ps3 by a loooong shot. its only common since. Not to mention cheaper.

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/192761/what_amd_12core_opterons_mean_to_your_business.html

Ya Sony's cell may be powerfull but once you buy it you're only have the privilege to use it. they can do anything they want with it. That alone should be illegal. There also should be a law suit against sony about there silly adds that mention it can do everything, well not anymore it cant lol.

# lol greedy sony or nazi — vizard00 2010-05-12 19:17

hey wait not obly air force , i can confirm FBI use ps3 other os too for calculation an dmany things , many universities use ps3 cells to make huge calculations , guys isnt it a litle NAZI to remove other os just bcz geohot fond out how to hack the ps3 trouth it . yes its NAZI and hope sony more sue for this , imnot offline just to keep other os .

-2 # RE: lol greedy sony or nazi — Musev 2010-05-12 19:24

No its not "a little nazi" do you even have a brain?

All those uni/fbi/military etc are probably a contributing reason for Sony to remove that feature.

# RE: Other OS removal may mean collateral damage for US Air Force — Guest 2010-05-12 19:47

yh surely the US airforce can come to some sort of arrangement, sony will probably be very flexible to save face

# RE: Other OS removal may mean collateral damage for US Air Force — Guest 2010-05-12 19:56

sony and the airforce could team up to take down geohot, lol im joking but still maybe he should think about changing his identity or something XD

# RE: Other OS removal may mean collateral damage for US Air Force — Davidthefat 2010-05-12 20:40

I thought about the US Air Force doing the PS3 stuff when the Other OS first got removed, but I would assume Sony would give them the Other OS already enabled

# RE: Other OS removal may mean collateral damage for US Air Force — Guest 2010-05-12 21:02

How exactly does it make it harder to replace if they break or fail?.

Justify that statement. It doesn't change anything in regards to fixing them.

The "research" they're talking about requires the cpu, and has nothing to do with the OtherOS.

Talk about reaching for reasons.

-1 # RE: RE: Other OS removal may mean collateral damage for US Air Force — Lazyboy256 2010-05-13 12:35

They need OtherOS to use programs on Linux that utilize the Cell for number crunching. There's no feature on GameOS that allows that.

+1 # RE: RE: Other OS removal may mean collateral damage for US Air Force — Guest 2010-05-13 15:31

Gee, I dunno. Maybe because all new Ps3s will have the latest firmware update installed? And thusly they won't have OtherOS installed.

And yes, they DO use OtherOS for their processing, just like anyone else who uses PS3s in a cluster.

Talk about not doing any research.

# RE: Other OS removal may mean collateral damage for US Air Force — slash_th 2010-05-12 21:12

LULZ! if the airforce sues sony.. they are SCREWED! xD

+1 # RE: Other OS removal may mean collateral damage for US Air Force — MangoScango 2010-05-12 21:13

lol, imagine, its the airforce thats been spamming geohots blog. xD

# RE: Other OS removal may mean collateral damage for US Air Force — Goregeist 2010-05-12 22:19

Considering the client, I don't think Sony will Discontinue support for them. Surely they can special order some hardware from the factory, and load it with Other O/S...
I'm almost certain this only affects the "retail" market base

# AF scooped up last refurbish — xophaser 2010-05-12 23:43

I wondered where all the Phat refurbished PS3s fry's were selling for 250 went. I will sell my phat PS3 to the AF for for the original big money.

# funny.. — Guest 2010-05-12 23:47

ive been thinking about this before i went to QJ lol

# lol — Guest 2010-05-12 23:51

imagine if there's a meteor comming and the us air force needs those extra 2200 ps3 to launch the nuke and save us... i hope sony feels good to cripple some scientific research

# lol... — Guest 2010-05-13 01:54

Little by little this seems less geohots fault (i believe its not he didn't even get anything productive out of it)

And more a way to harm a countrys way of intel think about it jap sells thousands of ps3 for american study then takes that feature away when its in the main establishments (FBI/Air Force/Army etc) and their reasoning is one man who did nothing productive my ass lol think about it a moment

# RE: Other OS removal may mean collateral damage for US Air Force — Guest 2010-05-13 03:11

For such a big customer of Sony's they will definitely offer Dev. firmware with all features intact. You can take that to the bank and cash it. Trust me. POOR POOR POOR journalism here. Try contacting someone other than a lowly private on the matter. Contact the Brig. Gen in charge of Technology on base. Idiots at Ars Tech.

# Sony over reacted — Guest 2010-05-13 03:46

i neva used that feature & probably wud hav neva used it or tried 2 hack my PS3. Bt i liked the idea that i cud. & research on cell processing @ the end of the day wud benefit sony in the long run. It looks like the next gen of PS hackers are goin 2 b paid 4 by the USAF. PS3 hacks r gonna b classified,lol

# research — akakluster 2010-05-13 04:30

now that they that, i remember thinking that a number of other research lab were said to use PS3 cluster's. what about them too...
in fact sony may have to oblige to all of them about other OS features.
I, personally don't care about the Other OS feat., but science (in US and europe) is fund by our money and i would be quite upset to learn that research lab had to buy a new computation cluster and spend a lot of money just because sony remove a feat from its hardware...

+1 # lol air force — vizard00 2010-05-13 07:31

1 - this is Air force 1 to aire force 2 , do not update i repeat do not update
2 - copy that air force one all update are disabled
3 - mmmm aire force 1 quation ..... requesting permission to install custum firmware 3.21

# RE: Other OS removal may mean collateral damage for US Air Force — Guest 2010-05-13 09:33

Jeez airforce don't have too update it since they didn't bought it for games and they could careless about PSN, Also it's airforce they can ask sony to customized those ps3 that they have. Just get over with the OS removal since most of the people doesn't really care about it and some people doesn't even know that's it's there.

# RE: RE: Other OS removal may mean collateral damage for US Air Force — Guest 2010-05-13 15:37

The problem isn't about updating it. The problem is when one of the PS3s they're using needs to be replaced. When they buy a replacement, it's going to have the newest firmware installed, thus no OtherOS.

# RE: Other OS removal may mean collateral damage for US Air Force — jordan1391 2010-05-14 11:26

Maybe someone told them the truth about the whale and dolphin, and cow and chicken Nuclear Bomb story.

# Genius — Guest 2010-05-15 12:14

No, seriously. Half the people commenting here are just pure genius.

LEARN TO READ.

This isn't another bitch from the public about it being removed, and we KNOW that the air force don't need to update as they don't play games.

The point is they use OtherOS to hook up a load of PS3s in a cluster for their insane amount of power.

The issue on hand here is if one of these PS3s breaks they're screwed. I doubt Sony will continue to make or supply old 'Phat' PS3s and the ones they have left will probably be shipped with the latest firmware.

Just because it's the US air force, it doesn't mean Sony will just u-turn and give them the old firmware on units.

Think about it. If they started doing that it would confirm to us all that it's possible to downgrade firmware. This would lead to someone on the inside (no doubt) leaking to the public how it's done.

Personally I think it was a bad idea to remove the option in the first place but it's not a big deal to me as I own a PC anyway.

Still, the whole "we can remove something if we want to, as it's in the EULA" is major bulls***

# Wait... — Davidthefat 2010-05-17 20:37

Why doesnt the Air Force just pay like $10k more for a development kit and just develop on the gaming OS? Makes more sense to me than using linux on the PS3, there are no drivers for the RSX, I think you can still develop with cloud computing in mind on the game OS. I personally use linux on the PS3, but I feel that the gaming OS has less restrictions, so I would assume that it would not be a real issue here... I personally won't update my PS3 though, unless they bring Other OS back.

# RE: Wait... — Davidthefat 2010-05-17 20:40

Quoting Davidthefat:

Why doesnt the Air Force just pay like $10k more for a development kit and just develop on the gaming OS? Makes more sense to me than using linux on the PS3, there are no drivers for the RSX, I think you can still develop with cloud computing in mind on the game OS. I personally use linux on the PS3, but I feel that the gaming OS has less restrictions, so I would assume that it would not be a real issue here... I personally won't update my PS3 though, unless they bring Other OS back.

Adding on to this: I am 90% sure you can get cloud computation with the gaming OS and more on the big scale like the Air Force is currently using it as. Plus, they have access to the RSX, which would be very beneficial in computing the nuke simulations and actually rendering it on screen.

# Just how stupid are we here? — Guest 2010-05-18 01:39

Seriously, we are talking about the U.S. military. And the FBI. They don't have morons working for them. If they need these ps3's working they will find a way, with or without Sony's help. And another thing Sony is not in business to loose money or get sued. They would not of removed otherOS if they were not legally entitled to do so.

# So... — Guest 2010-05-18 20:19

Wait, instead of just buying Cell Processors, or contracting the company that made them to produce more for the USAF, they'll just buy PS3s. Logical decision, that was.
Suits you right, USAF. Glad the country's safety in the air is in your hands.
Annnnnnnnnnnnd let's see those flames, boys.

# Please read the title of my last post — Guest 2010-05-19 10:36

While what you are saying seems to make sense, think about this: The usaf has about 4000 ps3's. The company that sells the cell processors has a minimum purchase amount because it is simply not cost efficient to sell 4000 at a time so if they were to do so the price would be incredibly high. also if you open a ps3 you will find more than just processors inside there will be a mother board, hard drive, and graphics card,blueray/dvd/cd drive, among other components, and not to mention the case itself which is fastened by a set of screws. so you are suggesting that it would have been wiser for the usaf to purchase all these components 4000 times then pay a large number of people to assemble them into functional computers. Honestly, tell me how that is cheaper than just buying 4000 ps3's.

# Sony's Paranoid! — Guest 2010-05-18 23:55

Stupid idea's from Sony Oh lets get rid of OS support that is not thinking through your Brain!..Also if they think they can stop hacker's from breaking into Sony Server's wrong they could easily do it again!.look up GeoHotz!.Also why did they drop support with the Military as well as the Navy?..Not a smart idea!...

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