haha first

haha first

Only possible through the PS3?

That's a big claim. :P But it's awsome that the MGS Team are really pulling out all the stops for the show-stopper that is MGS4.

Only possible through the PS3...

Or PC, or XBOX360, or you could use transparancy instead of refraction.

I'm not sure if Transperacy is good enough...

Maybe Refraction is an easier or smoother tool instead of Transparacy which has a lot of layers or perhaps dosn't look quite as good? I'm not sure how it works. :P

Tsk

transparency is so easy to do. He did the harder better alternative. Its only Possible on the PS3.

it wouldnt be so hard

it wouldnt really be so hard. it only happens when he is immobile so nothing is really changing. all it would take is a technique used by a screensaver that can run on almost any computer. you know the one where its a metalic blob circling around a photo, and the blob shows the part of the picture its over and refracts it and stuff(which give the blob an invisible fealing). even my old 400mhz 1999 gateway can handle that with ease.

Yeah

But that's just that. A blob. A sphere. Not a polygonal character. And not only that, your desktop is 2D and the effect is just a 2D effect. With MGS4, it's not an something simple like tranparancy. Instead, the polygon model calculate the texture of it's surrounding environment and wrap it around the character model.

MSG demo reels are realtime check out the latest.

Check out the last demo reel that was released during E3. They showed an example of it during the one scene with the two walking bio tanks. I dont beleive its going to be just a simple transparency nor refracton technique used. But thats my opinion.

yes yes

i do alot of coding and work for a small game company that plans to expand for 360 and ps3. simply put, the pc is a great developing enviroment. but the thing is, the xbox 360 and ps3 are very damn powerful. neither dominates the other. actualy, in a sense of next generation interaction, it depends on how the game is coded. take QUAKE4 for example. it could easily run on the 360 at full graphics and tremendous speeds. but they coded it so fast that it didnt run too smooth. im am 100% sure that sooner or later, we will be able to have very good interactivity with the enviroments in games. even games that have graphics that push both systems to the max will be able to have destructible enviroments. alot of it is in the coding. most effects like HDR and refractions from lights can be easily handled. it just depends on how the game is developed.

MGS4 is his last.

This is it. He will be totally done with Metal Gear. I really think from a creative standpoint that he is mentally drained from this story. He has no more to give to Snake. Kojima is going to make new Wii games and probably bring back Zone of the Enders. Even if people start writing in, he wont come back a la MGS 3 : Snake Eater. Kojima doesn't want to be known as a one trick pony. He has alot more ideas. The only thing i see remotely related to the Metal Gear universe is spinoffs. But even that I don't see happening since he is so sick of it all. That graphics camo suit and Octo Cam being only possible on PS3 is all bull$hit. Xbox 360 is more than capable to do it. Donald from comment 9 is correct. It is about the coding and software they use.

OMFG OCTOCAM???

AM I THE ONLY PERSON SMELLING OF PSP CONNECTIVITY???? JUST IMAGINE CONTROLLING THE OCTOCAM ROBOT WITH YOUR PSP TO TOTALLY DISTRACT ENEMIES AND SNEAK UP ON THEM!!!!!!

OMG

OMFG YEAS NUBMRE 11 TAT IZ S0 TR00 LOLOLLLOOL *****! Anyway, farewell MGS4, and don't criticise Hideo, he never lies. Except when he says its the last MGS.

only possible on the PS3

becuase its only coming to the PS3, i guarantee you if they ported it to the 360 they would make it work.

interesting!

Well body suit changing must be required the special code and powerful GPU. Maybe 360 won't able to do that on the ATI chipset, not because it isn’t powerful enough. But the engine in the chipset may not able to see what to modify the body texture when Snake is attaching on the wall to match up the textures from the background. (might be wrong but I can see it is make a sense)

LOL

You guys have no idea about the effect used, and some of you even claim to be programmers :lol: . Please give me your name, company that you work for, your job level, and whether you got PS3/X360 devkits or not. I'll just have a laugh. The octo camo works like that: it watches textures that are around, and then wraps them on the character, but it's not only a 2D map, you can also see the holes and things like that. Hideo Kojima is much more reliable than you guys, and he has ALL dev-kits, X360/PS3/Wii/PC. Not only MGS4 looks better than any X360 game, it also has destructibility and interaction on a level that wasn't yet shown in X360 games, and I don't think it ever will. Take GeoW for example, dev team had to take out the anti aliasing, to make it run in 30 fps, it uses low poly models, and interaction with enviroments is close to zero - that's not next-gen, and it's supposed to be the best looking game on X360.

Hey KnowLedge

you sound reasonable, but while we must trust what Kojima says, I dont believe that PS3 is not capable enough to produce a fully interactive (destructive) environment. Even BLACK that runs over current (past-) gen consoles is able to do that at a good extend.

RastaDator....

You seen MGS4 trailer? Interaction is CRAZY. And it is very detailed. In Black you have certain elements, that have premade "destruction animations". In MGS4 everything is counted in real time. The walls are crushing exactly in the place in which they are hit, and exactly how they should brake in real life depending on the force used on them. Also there's a neat fragment with watermelons squashing - it's really impressive, and wasn't shown in any other game up to date. There was Red Faction, and many games that claimed to have fully destructible enviroments, but it just wasn't made to that extent.

H-TOWN FOO

all i gotta say is ur cracy, are u serious HALO 3 LOOK SO MUCH BETTER THAN MGS 4, AND NOT ONLY THAT, THAT IS AN EARLY GAME ENGINE OF HALO 3, WAIT TILL IT PROGRESSIVES. ITS GOING TO LOOK LIKE KILLZONE.

red faction

red faction had destructable enviroments, i remember making a huge tunnel in a wall and that game is super old. and how does he know software limitations????? all he has ever worked on is portable game consoles, 1980's pc games, ps2 and ps3 games. and i have yet to see any real proof that the e3 trailer was real time, i can say the same for halo 3, but at least GoW showed interaction. MGS showed no interaction so i have my doubts it was real time.

exactly what ppl said last E3

that the trailer was not in real time, but kojima proved them wrong by freezing the cam and by zooming in and out and changing the textures, got to youtube.com and you will find the clip. now for the new one you could tell cause it was less detailed from the first one and the frame rate was not steady. halo3 was also realtime go to bungie' site to see it and were the devs talked about it. cooljay u being a gamer, do you ever do your research or do you just come online and start typing out your a$$, kojima has worked on the cube and he released mgs substance for the xbox/ps2. so please do your homework

to above

--now for the new one you could tell cause it was less detailed from the first one and the frame rate was not steady.-- how does that help you? saying that the new trailers are less than the old ones? so he made old trailers in non-real time but the new ones he made in real time? but i noticed from the link in this article a couple of spots where the frame rate really dropped. but i dont know if it was a bad movie or the ps3 cant keep up with the graphics of MGS4. if you can tell me that it would be much appreciated. --cooljay u being a gamer, do you ever do your research or do you just come online and start typing out your a$$, kojima has worked on the cube and he released mgs substance for the xbox/ps2. so please do your homework-- but he hasnt worked on any recent pc's or 360's... so how does he know?

its worse because

"how does that help you? saying that the new trailers are less than the old ones? so he made old trailers in non-real time but the new ones he made in real time?" its no more a tech demo even though that was in realtime, the one they showed at E3 06 was running on the dev kits not a pc emulating the ps3, that was E3 05. this was the actual game with more stuff going on thats why the frame rate dropped.

to cooljay

What he is saying is the first demo was in real time during TGS 05 because they were able to freeze the camera and move around snake, change color filters and even move the light source. You should really look for the demo on youtube, it's quite amazing when they show individual light sources being changed on the fly seperate of each actual location (changing the light around snake, and then changing the light around otacon that is INSIDE the little screen was insane) The second demo at E3 Seemed to have less graphical prowess, but I personally feel like they just used a different filter to change the mood, because if you look closely at the demo, all the details are still there... it's just kinda sepia toned for a better idea of what general atmosphere of the story would be like (in case you didn't notice, the second demo was all about characters/story). If you watched the realtime manipulation demo of TGS 05, you'll see that they applied a bunch of different filters to get different effects out of the game. I'm sure that is what is going on in the E3 Video. It probably hasn't been proven that the E3 video was realtime, but I have no doubt in my mind that it was realtime just from the fact that the TGS05 video was in realtime and it was even more stunning of a demo than the E3 one.

...uhhh

After Hideo Kojima is done with Metal Gear games for good, he should bring back Snatcher.

Knowledge is not really knowledge.

Ok only one person claims to be a programmer. By using the word "some" then that means more than one. Get Hideo's nuts out of your mouth, KnowLedge. The dev team might have done some of the things you claim about Gears of War, but you have to think again. They have pretty much now and all throughout the summer to fix all of that. Are you a programmer? What's "next gen?" Are you an expert on that? Give me your definition. The ever changing camo suit? Get the phuck outta here. How does that affect gameplay? So Hideo has a 360 dev kit. So the phuck what? Doesn't mean he looked in to the system's potential. You're not Hideo. You're not part of the MGS development team or part of Konami. Did he even say he has a 360 dev kit? Or are you just assuming that he's Hideo Kojima and that he must have one? I laugh. Haha.

Fanboy, get them facts straight...

Kojima worked on every system, and has all the devkits - he knows what he's talking about. Things I said about GeoW come from Cliffy B's mouth - not mine. He said that due to hardware limitations they have to give up on AA - to reach the 30 fps. Asking abot how does camo suit affect gameplay is straightly retarded. Next-gen? By next-gen I mean upgrade in games that will be significant enough to make me buy the system. SONY from the very first presentation of PS3 was saying that next-gen is about interaction - you see any interaction in X360 games? No you don't. You probably don't even own X360, so I don't know why I'm wasting my breath.

I am looking at the demo

and I can see what you talk about, but pay attention to this piece from the article: "Kojima notes that the PS3 does have some boundaries though; in some buildings only certain items will be destructible. As an example, Kojima notes the stairs that the Metal Gear destroys in the latest E3 trailer; while they are damaged in the trailer you'll notice that everything in the scene remains undamaged."

Again they all need to die.

Especially Hideo's groupies. That quote posted by Rastador said it all. That's great that graphics is next gen to you. For me, it's gameplay. Graphics have reached a saturation point. It's not retarded to ask about how camo suit affects gameplay. If you're just concentrating on eye candy, then that's completely retarded. The MGS series actually went downhill with Snake Eater despite graphics and some gameplay improvement (even though I thought the game was good, but not great. Grew disenchanted). So the phuckin camo suit changes color when immobile? Big phuckin whoop. IF it is how it sounds then that aspect would be just like Snake Eater, but this time you don't have to do the work to match up with the environment. Taking the fun out of it. It would be like driving an automatic even though a manual is best for a race car such as a MGS4. Cliffy B is in big phuckin trouble if he can't get GoW to run at a stable 30 fps especially on a graphics beast such as a 360. He better unleash more power that is waiting to be unlocked. Kojima better change the gameplay dramatically to convince people to cough up well over $600. Like I said, you're not Hideo. Yes, he has all the devs kit. You honestly think he sat down and tried to max out the potential of 360? Or even PS3? or even Wii? That takes years to figure out. Not this early in the game. It's called common sense. Doesn't 360 have 3 cores? MGS 4 and that camo suit can be done on 360. Honestly, ask yourself. After looking at Gears of War in motion, you don't think MGS 4 can be done on 360? Let's look at another game. Resident Evil 4 for Gamecube. Let's pretend that you saw that game, but didn't know it was for Nintendo. Would you honestly think that Gamecube would be powerful enough to do that? Again, lets look at the port of RE4 for PS2. Alot of gamers thought that it would not be possible. If it's done then it would look really bad graphically. The developers proved them wrong didn't they? PS2 essentially is RE4 for Gamecube but with graphical dumbdowns that are barely noticeable (unless you did a side by side comparison). Simply put, both PS3 and Xbox 360 are graphics beast. 360 can run MGS4 and that camo suit. The potential is there. It's just not fully realized yet. Gears of War is a prime example of what 360 can do and THATS JUST A SECOND GEN GAME! Oblivion and Ghost Recon looked great as well and they are first gen. Come to think about it, I don't know if MGS 4 is his last one. Death threats and money go a long way. You believe every thing Hideo claims eh? Just like how he said that MGS 2 was his last one?

You n00bs...

Um... Those 3 cores are general purpose, so they're not ideal for most gaming code except for AI. Octocam is essentially the first raytracer used in a game (which is superscaler heavy), so your all idiotic n00bs. Go read something before denouncing a 46 year old Dev.