geez

I havent seen anything innvoative so far with the new gen of consoles...hope they do things right (every console)

what?

To the writer of the articly: You say, "I say, force feedback ain't all that hot anyway" Most people think so, I do. You wouldn't have said that if another company would have taken it out. You sound like a Sony Fanboy trying to justify every stupid thing they do. Maybe your not, but you sound like it. To #1, You say, "I havent seen anything innvoative so far with the new gen of consoles" So the Wii isn't doing anything new with the Wiimote? The PS3 isn't doing anything new with Blueray?

to #2

well i think thay u r just tryng to get into conflict with others, cant you say anithing for yourselve=?! -i think thar force feedback is coll in some games and in ohters not, i have a psp and i dont miss it at all. and also all the pc gaming fans dont cry about it right ..!

here we go again.

before the miriad of comments crucifying Chris C for giving us his opinion, i'll state my thoughts on the matter. i agree with the fact that the force feedback was a nice novelty when it was introduced, but the majority of the games just don't *do* anything with it. the Silent Hill games are only a few that actually made a use of it that benefited the game (as in, instead of having to constantly go into the menu to monitor the character's health, you just felt for the thump of the controller. wow, now *that's* innovation!). the tilt technology, however, could be used for more than the rumble could. i actually played Warhawk at E3 this year, and i was very suprised at how well the tilt feature worked, and i think Nintendo and Sony may be onto something, but i prefer the standard controller setup over the Wiimote. anyway, back to Warhawk, the controls were fluid and responsive, and the game was very fun to play, and i'm not even a big fan of air combat shooters. i can see how the tilt will benefit games like racers (you won't need to pay for a pricy steering wheel add on if you don't want to!), and FPSes. also, some creative developers may just create some new IP's built around the feature (think of a game like Loco Roco for the PSP, but for the PS3 instead). with my time on the PS3 (i played Resistance: Fall of Man, Untold Legends: Dark Kingdom, Warhawk, Sonic the Hedgehog, and Heavenly Sword), i didn't even notice the rumble was gone. it's really a nonissue to me. of course, eDimensional and Immersion have apparently teamed up to create Motion/Rumble controllers for the PC and PS2, so a PS3 one could also become a reality, then this silly topic could be done away with for good.

tilt sensors

tilt would only be good in games like war hawk where you constantly moving your ship. games like MGS4 where you would only use it for peeking out around corners and stuff would get old and very irritating. How many hold their controller perfectly flat while playing video games? nobody does, i dont want to be playing MGS for in the heat of battle when i accintly lean my controller to the right and all of the sudden my head is right in the line of sight and i die. People are always tilting their controllers everytime they stretch or just sitting on the couch. if i have to remember to keep my controller level all the time or else i die, thats going to be a pain in the @$$. as for the force feedback. you have 5 senses. to try and get into the virtual world that your playing in, you have to use as many senses as possible, right now we are capable of 3, sight, sound, and touch. if you take away one of them(touch) you wont be that into the game. it would be like taking away the sound of the game.

Figboy

I played Warhawk at E3 as well and even though just like you I'm not particularly a fan of flight combat games I was surprised at just how fun and responsive the controller was. I sucked at the game, but it'll still be on my launch pick up list. Coolijay: I'm pretty sure the'rell be some sort of context sensitive function that prevents you from leaning out of cover all the time, for instance the lean function might only be activated while you're leaning into a wall. Either way the example I gave was just that, an example. I see where you're going about taking away the sense of touch, but the whole tilt functionality really does add something to the equation, call it a sense of depth or some sort of weird bodily extension, but I think it makes up for the lack of a sense of touch, which I would/have argued, is rarely implemented very well anyway.

how many people

how many "youngsters(a very large audience to sony)" to gaming would pay $600 for a console than pay $70 for a game, than bring it home to just though the contoller against the wall in frustration. if you impliment ANOTHER thing to do while playing games your just asking for it. most people cant rub their stomach and pat their head at the same time, how are you sopposed to expect gamers to do several tasks in a split second(the time needed to execute a move in most games)? with the ps3 your going to have to move the analog sticks to make your guy move around, hit buttons to make him do stuff(several at once if your playing an arcade fighting game(like mortal kombat)) then tilt his controller all around to dodge out of the way. the mind is only capable of carrying out 2 tasks at a time. with your arm area. for example: point your left index finger out, and start moving it around on the table in a circular pattern. now take your right finger and start tapping it on the desk. now while continuing tapping your right finger and circling your left one, with your right finger, tap once about 1 inch in front your last tap, and then go back to where you wher tapping. and then do that again and again and again and again. pretty soon, your left hand will no longer be making circles and will be moving in a straight line in accordance with your right hand, because your brain can only process 2 tasks at a time. and your fingers are alot quicker than your hands. it alot easier to move your finger a centimeter than to move your hands side to side. and there is the sense of precision with a button. when you hit a button you know you hit it, when you tilt a controller for that quick dodge, you dont know if you got it or not. and if you have to hurry and dodge the other way, than you have to move the controller twice as far.

eh

I've enjoyed force feedback essentially since its inception. While some games implement it better I do know the feeling of not noticing it as much lately. It's not that it has gone away I think it's just become a norm and something you expect. I'm disappointed to see Sony removing it in the new controller. I think the best thing they could do is have two versions of the new controller or just bite the bullet and put it in with the motion-sensing technology. While tilting the controller may be fun for about a week I bet it gets overused and annoying sooner rather than later.

f you impliment ANOTHER thing to do while playing games your just asking for it

You'd be surprised just how quickly people can adapt. I remember thinking Nintendo had gone completely bonkers when I saw the N64 pad, but I got used to it, and then I saw the Dual Shock 2, with TWO analog sticks to be moved in independent directions at the same time, I figured no one would get it, but we did. There's also the marvel of people actually being able to play DDR. Human beings are remarkably adaptive.

Can you use a mouse and keyboard?

if you can use a mose and keyboard at the same time then you can use the PS3 controller. You use the mouse to move your vision you use it to fire and scroll weapons your keyboard is used to do various things plus move your character around, Jumping crouching, climbing, running, walking. All while using the mouse to aim and shoot.

youll notice it...

youll notice NOT having rumble than when you do have it. Sorry for all the human behavior stuff but: if you but a loud beeping sound in a room with a person, that person will notice it at first and then he will get used to it. after several years, take that beeping sound away and that person will notice the fact that there is not a beeping sound and will not get used to the silence untill another few days. same goes for here: you have had rumble for a long time that it has become a natural part of gaming, take that away and you will notice the difference. taking away features simply because we get used to them isnt a good idea, how many people notice the smooth ride their car gives them? should we take away the shock asorbers just because you no longer conciously think about them and add a mind controlled steering wheel?

Your health...

Ever heard of vibration white finger? If you kids haven't yet then I'm sure you'll find out in a few years. I always turned off rumble when I could so to me the motion sensing is a real bonus, can't wait to play Warhawk!

It was good..

At least, I enjoyed the Force Feedback. In Grand Turismo, for example, each car actually felt different. Whenever I picked a new car, I really felt like, "hey, this one's smooth". Or not of course, depending on the car. So it definetly added something to the gameplay, and not just with Grand Turismo of course. I know I would miss it.

I love force feedback

I'm kind of sick of reading about how FF isn't very desired. I love it. Think back to the first game to use FF. StarFox 64. That game was great, to feel the controller shake as your Arwing ran into walls. To feel the massive explosion of the depot base that seemed to last FOREVER. I'm very disappointed in the lack of Force Feedback and hope for a third party controller or an attachment for the sony controler to bring it back to the PS3.

WHOCARES..

STOP CRYING ABOUT A CONTROLLER. YA WANT SOME REAL "FORCE feedBACK?!"- GET LAID...TRUST ME.. BEATS ANY CONTROLLER.

umm...

im a sony fanboy i love the ps3 except for 2 things rumble isnt there... dunt tell me its not "hot" cause i dare u to try to play a game w/o rumble it feels really strange u may not think u notice it but subconsiously u really need it. also its off topic but...if the ps3 comes with hdmi cable wireless headset ethernet cable bd/cd/dvd remote out of box it would justify the $600 dollar price

Have you ever played an xbox game?

I love the force feedback and for example like in ghost recon advanced warfighter when your in the chopper and you can feel the blades of the chopper wooshing around it your hands it adds alot of gameplay...and as for games that take use of it, most of the xbox games I have played have taken excelent use of the feedback

I honestly dont care about FF

1/2 of the time I don't even notice force feedback and when I do its usually because its shaking so much that it pisses me off. I'll trade FF for Tilt tech any day.

vc

I used to like it for the first little while. But then it just got old and I would turn it off in most games. Some games definetly used it well but most were just half assed last second attempts.

have you ever played a 360?

have you ever played a 360 and compared its ff with that of a ps2? its totaly different. ps2 had one speed: high. with the 360 its has multiple levels of ff. when picking locks in oblivion i can barely feel the slight rumble of my pick tapping the tumblers. but with the ps2 it was all rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.............rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...........rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...... the 360 in graw for the breathing(while snipering), ff fades out then comes back in slowly. you cant justify getting rid of ff with ps2's lame attempt at it. tilt is just a gimmick. and the use in games in 6 months will be lame. you cant honestly tell me your going to sit for 2 hours playing games all while conciously holding your controller flat?

cooljay.....your mind is seriously limited...

ok, 5 senses?? how are you balancing your body when you stand up? Why can you feel that there is no gravity holding you down when there isn't? there's at least 9 (or 20, I forgot) senses in our bodies and to tell you, the most important thing isn't even sesnses it's about immersion. I agree Force Feedback made me happy. MGS was a good example, GT is another really good example, Shadow of Collosus was also nice(altho not used in any other special way but the game itself was innovative) But C'mon....if you want sense of touch, buy a DS I want immersion, realism and constant high-def fps rates. Sadly, I couldn't find original xbox delivering that, 360 couldn't either. I HOPE PS3 does because I don't see all the benefits with Wii's library coupled with Wiimote. but PS3 Library with DS3? it's more interesting because it has all the games that I care about. and yes, I could do the task you've said was impossible. Who told you that? am I a superhuman or something for being able to do it?

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What we do need it its the most ipoetant feature of a controller I mean imagine MGS4 without it or ape escape or nfs

better enjoy 360 ff while it is there

Okay, just to clerify, i was a huge Xbox fan, bought my 360, and it is now just getting me by until i can get both the PS3 and the Wii. Microsith lost me with the 360 when i preordered and got first day the 360 expecting for it to blow the PS3 away because there wouldn't be any big advantages unless Blu-ray beat HD-dvd, well then my 360 didn't have a HD-dvd drive, and the external attachment (making my 360 cost total come to about $700) won't support game play and so no 360 games will come out on HD-dvd discs. Games have almost reached the limit of dvd technology and a next generation higher storage disc is needed. sony saw this, microsoft lied about it. so now we are going to see a big movement in the next few years, and that movement will be the fact that ps3 games will look better because there is simply more room to work on graphics, and so to compete, they will have to drop some nonesential items to make massive levels and great graphics. and i think that the 360 ff will be the first thing to go, because it would free up a decent amount of space to work on other more important items. so while PS3 might not have a vibrating controller, atleast they will have the disc space to make their use of the tilt sensor work

wow kura your stupid.

i think back in kindergarten we all learned there were five senses... sight sound taste touch smell and the ficticious "6th sense" is ability to sense ghosts. here is a nice link for you if you want to learn more about the "complex" senses: http://freda.auyeung.net/5senses/ and how are you supposed to be immersed when you only use 2 of the 5? buying a ds for touch doesnt help anything, thats an input device not a sense. i guess sonyism spreads to the brain faster and destroys it faster than we thought.

the fact of the matter

The fact is, that the way the video game industry is organized, with development time under constant downward pressure, and with development teams never being able to grow in size and efficiency as quickly as the capacity of storage media, it is simply too difficult for enough content to be created for a title to break the 8 GB mark. Eventually, of course, 20 GB games may be common; but the video-game industry will probably never again drive cutting-edge storage media development. I don't see what the big deal is with blu-ray on a console. I haven't seen a console game yet that used a whole DVD. Bigger storage doesn't mean the games are going to be any better.

wtf

9 or 20 senses in our body?? did you even got to school what exactly do you think a sense is?

Completely Agree

I forget it's even there. Hardly any game uses it effectively. Even when used effectively though you're so concentrated in the game that those slight rumbles go unnoticed. Motion Sensing will all one more layer of movement besides the two analog sticks. At first I thought two analog sticks seemed gimmicky but now I cant live with out it (poor psp). I think this will definitely add a new dimension to gameplay and I commend sony for taking the controller down this road.

actauly

we use more like 3 of the 5 and sometimes the 6th one which is NOT to see ghost but more of the ability for the unatural, a sense of the 4th dimension, pk, those kind of things. Seeing ghosts is part of sight, its something you trian your eyes. Being able to feel someones emotions through the electromagnetic waves(aura/energy) they give off is the sixth sense. But back to the senses. We use our sight, hearing, and touch. Yes even with out force feed back. You can feel sound and react to it just as well as f.f. But its for those who lack that sensitive quality, that have lost a percentage of hearing, that can only hear in the average set of frequencis. Do we need it? no, our brain can perceive slight variences of subliminal sound. Play god of war. Do you notice when your health is low you can hear kratos heart beat even with the sound low? No, but you can tell your low on health even without conciously knowing. Excuse my spelling and to illiterate the 6th sense again, its to sense/ manipulate electromagnetic variences and/or to perceive outside of the 3 tangible dimensions our senses perceive. Did you know theirs actualy 10 dimensions?

Oblivion used the whole DVD and FF games do as well.

Actually they didnt put High Definition Textures in Oblivion because it took too much space. Since we are moving into the HD world space will be a huge factor. HD cut scenes from FF games will take a full DVD by themselves. Remember the days when we though, hmm Developers hardly fill a CD. Why didnt the xbox use cds for the XBox? Space is much more important now than ever due to the HD movement. Blu-Ray is a huge avantage, find me a developer that doesnt think so and I will be shocked. Sound is getting better, HD graphics are becoming the norm and gamesare including Physics and environment libraries all of which will take huge amounts of space. I think in 2 years time there will hardly be any exclusive games on the PS3 not filling up more than a DVD. 360 will suffer because developers will need to use lossy compression (lossy means you lose quality) and/or use low res textures. But by that time MS will probably announce another xbox and abandon their users once again.

I think kura meant sensors

Our body has millions of sensors in the form of nervers that all work concurrently. These nerves communicate the 5 senses' information to our brain to make decisions. This is why can think, talk and walk at the same time while flipping a coin in the air =). Sensors are constantly feeding information and if your body does it enough it will add it into it's auto mechanisms. One example is walking, talking, typing on the keyboard and such. Once our hands get used to moving with the controller our brain will register this as an automatic response to certain conditions. We will therefore move our controller very quickly as a reaction to a trigger in the game. Our sensors pick up that trigger (most likely visual) send it to our brain and we respond according. We are very complex machines. Just look at people trying to drive a car for the first time. Pressing the gas and moving the steering wheel seems daunting at first but when your body registers the actions as an auto behavior it's a easy as walking. Try teaching a Robot how to drive or walk for that matter.

i agree with 30

I like your anaology, though i never had a problem learning how to drive.... well besides reverse the first time i drove a clutch(my style of choice). I would like to thank the racing arcades for teaching me how to use the brake petal in turns!

no, HAIRY BALLZ

you dont feel it anymore because you have gotten so into the game it feels real and you have gotten used to it. DUSCHE

FF?

Why are people referring to dual shock as force feed back? They are two totally different things. dual shock just shakes where as force feed back actually has motors pulling in the opposite direction. I for one am going to miss the dual shock.

no rumble

i bought a wireless controller and it dose not have rumble feature and i dont notice it anymore only for games like GT4 and MGS but sometimes i would rather have wireless over rumble even for those games but if it was wireless and had tilting i think i would most defenitly want it over wired and rumble thats just my 2 cents

hope sony will change thier mind

I would not consider to buy a ps3 without " Vibration features" ,cause having vibration is IMPORTANT TO THE GAMERS.A lot of game need vibration features to be fun to play with , it brings gamers feel the responds from the game. I was wondering why in "WII" system , they can have their contraller with both technology in it but why just sony can't make it. I will move to others game machine if ps3 really did not put the "Vibration" features in thier controller. i been supporting ps product in this couple of years when the decision came out it really make me feel disappointed about the controller. By the way i am from (Malaysia). i think sony will lose a lot of business because of that .

Its easy as A, B, C,

"HAHAHAHAHAHAHA what the hell?? http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg18524841.600.html by kura" Touch covers three varieties of sensing: pressure texture and temperature so obviously when you feel the heat of a red hot poker you are sensing with touch. If I wiggle my fingers I am feeling the pressure and loss of pressure, again using touch I thought this was obvious to even the most handicappied retarded kidergarton in the class clearly i was wrong.

Metal Gear

Those of use who are Metal Gears fans and have been for a while know how important Dual Shock has been. I can't even imagine playing MG4 without it. =( I am very sad.

LOL

I wasn't making a point about there being many types of TOUCH senses I was making a point in that there are more senses from our bodies than a mere sight, sound, or even touch, and that focusing solely on that while disregarding the innovations that could stem from motion sensing controllers is damn stupid. btw, I wasn't spamming...please cover the address, don't just erase the whole comment:(

#20... what?

20. » have you ever played a 360? have you ever played a 360 and compared its ff with that of a ps2? its totaly different. ps2 had one speed: high. with the 360 its has multiple levels of ff. when picking locks in oblivion i can barely feel the slight rumble of my pick tapping the tumblers. but with the ps2 it was all rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.............rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...........rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...... the 360 in graw for the breathing(while snipering), ff fades out then comes back in slowly. you cant justify getting rid of ff with ps2's lame attempt at it. tilt is just a gimmick. and the use in games in 6 months will be lame. you cant honestly tell me your going to sit for 2 hours playing games all while conciously holding your controller flat? ----- the ps2 had 256 different levels of vibration. just like the xbox and xbox 360. for example... proof: play MGS 1, and in the beginning where the Hind D flys over snake, the vibration is light at first then gets stronger as it's overhead, then lighter as it flies off.

LMAO!!

you freakin nerds with the number of senses!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! you guys crack me the phuck up!! I remember why i used to beat up geeks like you guys!!! Anyways.....if u decide to own a ps3...be prepared to buy a controller from madcats or any other 3rd party developer. or just wait for Sony to trick u into buying their "newest" controller down the line WITH forcefeedback!! hahahahaha!! I'm stick crackin up on how u guys argue about how many senses the body has!! GET a FREAKIN LIFE OR GET A FREAKIN GIRLFREIND YA NERDS!!! STOP JACKIN OFF!!

its funny.

its funny how ff would mess up the tilt. couldnt they just make it so ff doesnt work when tilt input is needed?

hahaha non fanboy

what's so funny for being dumb :D tell me:D how has your life been since you were bashing nerds up. has your life been happy? how has your first crime been? your first rape victim? your first murder? your first self-justification? your first stalk target? getting a girlfriend isn't everything. usually, guys like you try to get a girlfriend as a trophy lol and get dumped by every girl you go out with coz you got no substance. you think that's a good thing?:D lol, I can go on forever with this. it's so easy to get back on guys who think bashing someone up or raping someone is an honorable thing and brag abour it to friends.

@joe blow

Dualshock is the name for Sonys line of controllers, becuase of the two motors in it. Force Feedback is the actual technology.

to: #44 KURA

to KURA....geeez, did i just touch a nerve?!! Did u get somekind of flashback or are u giving me reasons why u turned out that way??!! rape?? murder?? I was just joking around...hahahahahahha!!! KURA

hey

hey, don't use my name in vain, for I am god .....less bastard but how can that be a joke lol but it truly is easy to go of forever and usually, those guys end up doing that:D

Fanboy betrayed

I'm a staunch Sony supporter. Ever since way back in the day when I hopped the fence from Nintendo to sony during the 32-64bit era I've kept my tent pitched in their camp. I don't see myself moving any time soon either. BUT! Regardless of what I think about this lawsuit between MS Immersion, and Sony, I gotta say that I'm REALLY disappointed about the removal of the rumble feature. Games like Shadow of the Colossus, and God of War, and ANY fighting game will suffer greatly for its removal. Sure, I guess I could go buy a 7.1 Dolby SS theatre and turn my bass all the way up, but I'll still feel like I'm holding a limp d*** in my hands if that Colossus doesn't make the controller shake right out of my fingers. Also, Imagine how the rumble would affect the motion sensitivity. It would be awesome. You're trying to make a steep turn in Warhawk or something, and the harder you turn it, the more g-force you feel through the controlller. I say BOOOO to its removal, and what a damned shame.

@Toasty, MD

Then why is it that my DFP steering wheel for my PS2 is labeled "Force Feedback" when other steering wheels that don't have the motors that actually put resistance against you are called "Vibration Feedback" The DFP steering wheel has motors that actually try to turn the steering wheel in the opposite direction. They have had these types of steering wheels and joy sticks for the PC for quite some time now. Cheaper steering wheels just have motors that vibrate but do not drive the wheel at all.