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John Carmack talks Tech 5: 80GB of textures will fit in one Blu-ray or 2 DVDs

Posted Aug 5, 2007 at 1:13PM EST by QJ Staff

Listed in: PS3, Xbox 360, PC Gaming Tags: id Software, John Carmack, QuakeCon, Unreal Engine

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At least on the PS1, the best games usually had a disc swap. I feel like multiple discs made it feel like they put MORE effort into making the game and I just felt like I was gaining more game time.

I don't think there EVER has been any game that had swapped discs on every other "level". (Who says level? LOL, little kids?) I don't WANT my HD-DVD drive as my primary drive, (And ABSOLUTELY NOT BLU-RAY as my primary) the whole reason is that I rather take an in-expensive drive and use it for games (DVD) and if that goes out, I am not out of a HD-DVD player. (Wear-and-tare) So I mean, meh, Your post just seems like a flame war just to start, better get your flame proof suit on.

# Wow... — Shatterdome 2007-08-05 16:32

I love hearing this guy talk.

That engine sounds pretty amazing, and just shows how much data really can fit on one DVD.

They will no doubt license this out, so I'm interested in what kind of games will adopt this.

It does really sound amazing from an artists perspective....being able to work 2kX2k opposed to something like 256X256 or most are 512X512 now, is like 5 extra levels of detail you can put into textures.

However, giving artists that leeway means we may spend a whole day doing a photo realistic texture for one wall....although it looks good, like he said, it may not be the best use of time...

# oh yeah — hush404 2007-08-05 16:56

and with the right amount of coding this ass can squeeze his c0ck into a f'n pen casing.

# xbox 360 — Guest 2007-08-05 17:49

This thing would really work for the xbox 360 as it can make many games like MGS4 come to the 360. And it would also make game textures between the xbox 360 and playstation 3 look nearly the same.

# zing — Guest 2007-08-05 17:50

it doesnt matter if you have 256 ram or 512 zing! 1up for PS3 hahahaha even though it didnt matter the PS3 has great textures and still runs at 60fps with or without rage the only game so far with online lag is Rainbow Six Vegas.

# Blow it out your ass Carmack — Guest 2007-08-05 18:19

I swear if he bashes the ps3 one more time.... Ohhh what if we dont have enough memory on the ps3 or what if were 80 megs over on the ps3. ***** that, the ps3 has the same ammout of memory as the 360 but 256 of it is for the cell and 256 of it is for the graphics. where as the 360 has a shared 512. And WHat the hell? 80 megs over on the ps3 screw that the ps3 has FAR more storage than the 360 I live in dallas if he keeps talking ***** i'ma go down to id and kick his scrawny ass

# ill sing you a lollaby — AoxomamoxoA 2007-08-05 19:04

whats this? more news that the ps3 is a flop? tell me something i didnt know.

Lair got a 5.5 out of 10! hahaha. wheres a sony fan to brag about his Lair game now?

# none — Guest 2007-08-05 19:23

Your not going down anywhere to kick any ones ass. Your a little ***** who lives with his mom. Deal with it.

# Dumbass — Guest 2007-08-05 19:29

Shatterdome was talking about texture resolution, not PS3 RAM dipsh*t.

# Well... — Shatterdome 2007-08-05 19:48

That just shows how ignorant you are.

Because although they have the same amount of ram on paper, the PS3 XMB actually uses twice as much memory as the 360 dashboard (and before some optimizations it had used 3 times as much)....and there may be even more things eating resources we don't know about....

So blow it out your ass buddy, and get informed...

# ... — Guest 2007-08-05 20:03

the ps3 is hard to develop for,just live with it....sony is and they fired a few people two....I wonder why????hehe;P_________ ________John carmack is a guru.....hands down...He is a hard core coder and He knows his stuff...Listen to this guy fan boys he tells the truth...Not som PR made up BS to make it sound better than it is..............We need more people like him!!!!

# soo.... — Guest 2007-08-05 20:22

What your saying is that even though the textures are usings 4gigs of data for textures can look as good as 6gigs of data?I just need an example I am not really good at understanding software

# dude — Guest 2007-08-05 20:59

you take reviews from magazine or internet site very seriously, without trying it yourself huh?? maybe the game wasn't up to standard for the one that was playing it.

# if... — Guest 2007-08-05 21:10

lair isnt even out yet how can it get a 5.5... how can u rate a game on its preview without knowing the full story

# ? — Shatterdome 2007-08-05 22:53

If textures are compressed, and then shown as compressed textures, there will definately be a loss in quality.

However the magic is finding a way to compress textures, then decompress them and show them on screen, which is what this engine does.

Carmack has found an incredible way of doing it....but the guy has been eating and breathing programming all his life, and is directly involved....not just cracking whips.

As far as texture sizes go, think of it as having a piece of paper of different sizes.

If you give an artist a regular piece of paper, they can do some nice stuff with it....but if they were to draw the same picture on a piece of paper 4ftX6ft they can fit ALOT more detail into the picture....that's what this engine let's artists do...use paper as big as they want....

# John Carmack is a guru — Guest 2007-08-05 23:33

damn straight he is

i'm still eagerly awaiting another doom outing

tried all the mods for Doom3 but its not the same as having a complete new title

Bring on Doom4

or another expansion thats not as easily beat as resurrection of evil was

# uh — Guest 2007-08-05 23:54

"lair isnt even out yet how can it get a 5.5... how can u rate a game on its preview without knowing the full story"

He didnt rate the game dude. He was saying that a proffesional game magazine with actual critices who have a scale for which they use on all games (not all magazines use the same scale, hence some games could get a 3 on one magazine and a 6 on another). I have read some reviews and seen some scores that the game 'lair' received and yes, some magazines did give it a 5.5 and if your not happy with the fact that this is getting to be the average score for the game, then post a link to a review greater then a 5.5 (which there are btw, just go look). I think the highest score I saw for the game was a 7.2... which does make the game look meak and underwhelming.

Granted, you should always play the game before you take the scores into consideration but from a larger stand point, low scores in game magazines always hurt sales for games. So hence, Lair probably wont do all that great unless the consense of gamers agree that the game is great and that the reviewers were just approaching the game wrong (remember Syphon Filter for PS1 got like a 2 but people loved it so much they had to actually retract the score and review it all over again.. i forget which magazine this was but they were giving it a 2 based on shiety graphics and glitches).

John Carmack is the man, i can listen to this guy talk for centuries.. and he isnt singling out the PS3. Well, except for the part where he says its pretty much taking a longer time to develop for it which is nothing new.

# time will tell — Guest 2007-08-06 00:18

ill be intrested to see xactly how 360 works out the 2 disc thing because what you 2 are forgeting is 360 has something ps1 and cube didnt a HD and that brings some difrent posibilitys. PC will not be afected by multi dvd any gameing machine or pc period with less then 120 is a peice and wont be compatible

# DVD9 x 2 — Guest 2007-08-06 00:24

i think a few of you are a bit confused he means 2 dvd9's not 1 DL or 2 DVD4

# hmmm — Guest 2007-08-06 00:26

XMB isnt running at the same time as games duh hence no XMB acess you need a little infoming yourself lol

# lol found you — Guest 2007-08-06 00:33

Aoxo just when you thought i hadnt found all your posts lol STOP with the reviews droping already or at least pick games we are looking forward to like warhawk and minna golf and littlebigworld i hate to break it to you but noone has really been looking forward to lair sence b4 launch your not breaking our hearts with this 1 review you keep siteing in every freaking article STOP please

# PS3 has less memory for game. It's a fact Anon. — Guest 2007-08-06 01:01

That the PS3 OS takes up 84MB (plus more for other features) whereas the 360 OS takes up only 32MB for everything.

READ the following;

http://www.innerbits.com/blog/2007/05/09/ps3-memory-footprint/

Hence PS3 has LESS memory available for games compared to the 360 (which has been a problem for many devs when porting from 360 to PS3).

# Yep Shatterdome — Guest 2007-08-06 01:05

"That just shows how ignorant you are."

Agreed.

Anyone who thinks JC is bashing the PS3 here are only showing their ignorance.

# 360 — Guest 2007-08-06 02:17

Hey when the light on the xbox 360 controller flashes periodically, does that mean the batteries have finished cause when i changed the batteries the ring stopped flashing and it became normal. Just wanted to know

# 360 — Guest 2007-08-06 02:22

Yes.

# Noooo!!! — Guest 2007-08-06 02:51

I don't want to change discs, I can't be bothered to lift my ass up, and spend all that effort to go to my console, and painstaking switch that disc that weighs a ton. Noooo!!!

# rules — Guest 2007-08-06 03:05

How many people think that Playstation 3 does not live up to all its hype cause i dont like it at all.

# u — Guest 2007-08-06 03:30

just u.

# sony — Guest 2007-08-06 03:33

sony hyped the ps3 that was there mistake the ps3 and the xbox 360 are about the same the only difference is bluray and that is nothing 2 dvd9 disks can't handle, I prefer xbox 360 ofcourse microsoft got rare, and bungie sony don't.

# yeah say the truth! — Guest 2007-08-06 03:54

Be a Gamer Rule!!!!!!!

X360 or Ps3 who care!

Except Wii it's s*ck

# wow — Guest 2007-08-06 05:51

anon are you retarded?

360 has something the ps1 and cube didnt? it has a HD...what are you talking about?

The ability to show high definition?

sorry dude but even if it "have a HD" it'll still be like the ps1.

swap the disc...at the end of part 1.

# and — Guest 2007-08-06 05:57

is there something wrong with have 2 dvds fanboy?

# nah — Guest 2007-08-06 06:05

its not as good as the hype.

still good though.

# lol — Guest 2007-08-06 06:19

"microsoft got rare and bungie, sony don't"

That's probably the saddest comment I've ever heard from a xbox fanboy. If you seriously think Halo is more valuable than all the first party titles that Sony produces, you should seek help.

I don't even know where this hostility came from. 8 bit generation, 16 bit generation, 32/64 bit generation, last gen...there wasn't even a hint of this "zomg, your system sux... for life!"

I think it's just alot of the 360 fanboys trying to drag out their system knowing that within a year or two, Microsoft is going to be releasing the next gen xbox. Don't be a fanboy, get whatever system floats your boat and be happy.

# ... — Guest 2007-08-06 06:50

but unlike 360 PS3 uses a different type of RAM which is faster than 360's. Also, games compensate for less memory by using the HDD as swap space.

# ... — Guest 2007-08-06 06:52

METAL GEAR... SOLID... 4

IS... NOT... COMING... TO... THE...

XBOX...

360...

GET...

IT...

IDIOT...

# last generation — Guest 2007-08-06 06:52

last gen was 128-bit...at least for the PS2.

# 2 Dvds are not too bad! — Guest 2007-08-06 07:22

but its not good either!

This console generation is barely beginning and x360 games are already needing 2 discs (only for textures!, how about sound and other goodies?). It's not so difficult to imagine how many disc will be needed in 3 years. Well, maybe in that moment MS drops x360 and comes with something new :(

# why — Guest 2007-08-06 08:07

why is everyone so lazy, the system is right in front of you if you dont want to get up off your ass to change a disk which will take only a few seconds there is something really wrong with you

# ummm — Guest 2007-08-06 08:13

.

That was quite informative

# ^^^ Nope — Guest 2007-08-06 08:52

The video memory in the PS3 (i.e. 256MB DDR3 linked to RSX) is the same speed as that in the 360. The faster memory is the 256MB XDR memory linked to Cell, since that is what Cell requires. So half the total memory being faster for Cell is no compensation for having less memory for games.

Also, the HDD helps with performance in the PS3 for caching (which can ALSO be done on the 360, Oblivion being the most known example which uses the 360's HDD for caching if it's there), but mostly the HDD is simply used to reduce load times (i.e. dumping 4-5GB of data from Blu-ray onto the HDD). It does not componsate for having less memory, since every screenshot you see in a game was produced by data held in memory at the time. The more memory you have, the more you can achieve per frame. Streaming helps with obtaining larger game worlds whilst maintaining decent texture quality.

# Yep — Guest 2007-08-06 08:57

They act as if they're going to sit there and play through every game on the PS3 in just ONE sitting, not even getting up for a toilet break, cup of coffee, to watch TV, to talk on the phone, to browse the internet, to go to sleep etc etc.

Take a break? Nah! They're going to put in the Blu-ray disk and play the game through to the end, therefore changing a disk is way too much ask. ;)

# finally — Guest 2007-08-06 09:01

someone with some common sense...WHO CARES WHAT SYSTEM YOU BUY PEOPLE! just be happy with the one you own and leave the others alone

# ps3 benefits — Guest 2007-08-06 09:51

this thing will make the ps3 be able to cram more than the xbox360 because it uses blu rays which are bigger than dvd's so the games will be even bigger for the ps3.

;)

# Ya... — Shatterdome 2007-08-06 10:12

I wondered that as well....

There was abit of argueing last gen, but xbox was clearly the more powerful system and showed it hands down in it's games...so it didn't last for long.

The gens before, I guess maybe the internet wasn't so widespread (or in 8bit early 16bit case, not around) and people had no "forum" to argue on....but there was abit around the schoolyard for the hardcore nintendo vs sega freaks.

This time around, I think it's because the systems are so close and you can really argue one way or the other if you want....and then of course the proliferation of the internet allows for so much annonymous sh*t talking....

Or maybe it's PS3 owners that know they bought an overhyped machine and deep down know it's not all that great and maybe they should have went with the competitor...

# Thanks — Guest 2007-08-06 13:19

Now it makes to me and I hope this engine goes mainstream like Unreal did but that might take a year or so

# More than one Blu Ray Disc — Guest 2007-08-06 14:22

Like with all playstation games there is going to be a couple of game with 2 blu rays and it most likey going to be RPG.

# 128bit — Guest 2007-08-06 15:33

what the h*ll does this mean! Look at PC CPU's they only recently started to switch over to 64bit processing... so how could PS2 be 128 bit

# meh — Guest 2007-08-06 16:07

I'm a PS3 fan but disc swapping isn't that big of a deal. I would rather have 1 disc to keep up with and worry about scratches but its not too bad. But really, if the PS3 had multiple discs and XBOX360 had only 1 then there would be tons of comments about how PS3 sucks because of disc swapping. I see more XBOX360 fans bashing the PS3 than the other way around.

# wow — Guest 2007-08-06 16:38

this is looking nice, one day everygame will be multi-platform!

Then, I'll buy the coolest platform instead of the one who give me the best games.

ps: I'm buying my ps3 in september!

# Wtf — Guest 2007-08-06 18:04

You idiot automatically think because id has a new engine that mgs4 will come to the xbox360. THINK YOU *****EN IDIOT ASS PIECES OF *****.

# idiot — Guest 2007-08-06 18:42

I also said rare you idiot, not just bungie rare and bungie has more talent than anyone at sony look at their track record and pdz and kameo was rushed out the door given more time those games would have been much better

# Nope never gonna happen — Guest 2007-08-07 10:27

PS3 uses Blu Ray dumbass those hold a lot more than DVD9. A single layer Blu Ray disc holds 25Gb and a Dual Layer Blu Ray disc holds 50Gb so I doubt that PS3 games will if ever be in 2 Blu Ray discs. Maybe by 2012.

# ever heard of a dvd-9? — Guest 2007-08-07 12:59

d*psh*t

# ha — Guest 2007-08-13 01:35

as long as the game looks just as good if not better than the ps3 version I dont mine swapping one extra disk and who said anything about metal gear you sony fanboys need to relax metal gear is still coming to ps3 geez

# swap disk — Guest 2007-08-16 13:12

who cares if you have to swap a disc- did i get mad when i was told in ff7 to swap a disc, No because that means i progressed. Look at god of war 2, great game two discs. For all we know microsoft will be nice and give the option to load most of the textures to the 360 hard drive. I'm still wondering why do ps3 games ask for 8300 kb or something on the back (thats why i don't want to buy it cause it practically loads it on to the hard drive because the blu-ray is slow).

# Potential — Guest 2007-08-19 09:56

What ever problems carmacks team's have with the PS3 of all people they will iron it out and optimise it...eventually. As far as Bluray is concerned some of you say in not too many words that its capable of 50gb dual layer, what its actually capable is a massive 200Gb on one bluray ( Dual layer double sided ) so its potential is greater than many of you inform.

Ps3 has its problems, but then so does the Xbox360 and both are damn good systems..

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John Carmack talks Tech 5: 80GB of textures will fit in one Blu-ray or 2 DVDs

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