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Individual Cells not as Reliable Because of Complexity |
Listed in: PS3 Tags: IBM, playstation 3 updates, Processor, Sony, Toshiba
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As we have all undoubtedly heard, the Cell Processor, made by Toshiba, Sony and IBM, was designed to be one of the most potent processing systems available to the public today. Unfortunately, life in the real world is revealing that the complex design of the Cell Processor may be too complex to allow for the efficient operation of its entire complement of 8 cells per core. IBM admits that it accepts chips that have only four out of 8 cells working, blaming the discrepancy on the size and complexity of the chips design. According to IBM VP of Semiconductor and Technology Services Tom Reeves, "with a chip like the Cell Processor you're lucky to get 10 to 20%" (working). Reeves goes on to say that, "the PS3 requires 7 of the 8 processors to be working," and that, "Sony will be using Cell Processors whether they have all cores functioning or not."
Obviously, at this point Sony is hitched to the fate of the Cell Processor no matter what happens. After Sony's substantial investment of time, money and resources into the processor, changing strategy now would move the project further down the road of disaster. All of this talk about the Cell Processor having various levels of functionality leads to obvious questions about quality control. What if I get one that only has 10% of its capacity functional will I notice a difference?
Should I have to pay the same amount of money for a lesser machine? Another potential pitfall for the processor is the fact that if one cell does happen to "blow out" (cease to function) prematurely, the machine must be sent in for an under warranty repair. If your machine is no longer under warranty then you are apparently out of luck. For those of you out there who have been reading all of this on the verge of tears, about to lose faith in the PS3 take heart!
As far as "blow outs" are concerned, Reeves claims that any problematic cells will be removed during the testing process and it is unlikely that a bad one would make it past QA and into public circulation. Sony apparently will be producing PS3's with different Cell Processors, but remember, the PS3 only needs 7 cells working to function, so essentially those with 8 working processors will simply have an unnecessary or spare cell that will not be used.
Reeves says that there is no difference in speed between a PS3 operating with 7 cells and one using 8 and while he maintains that it is unlikely that there will be any performance differences, only time will tell if there is actually any difference in overall performance. The miles of minutiae, complications and skepticism surrounding Sony's path to a successful PS3 release are a stirring testament to the difficulties they are facing and I feel, firm validation of the PS3's price point.
Via DailyTech
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Comments
and its funny how its only 3 months from its release and they only got 4 out of 8 cells working!!!!!! and in order to meet their 2 million unit shipping expectatoins, theyre going to have to start making them at least by late august.
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"Reeves' figure is likely to centre on the top-grade chips, (8-working cells) so the number of suitably operational PS3-oriented parts coming off the production line is likely to be higher - and will continue to rise, in all probability, as more wafers are completed and the Cell partners continue to refine the process."
http://www.techspot.com/news/22207-yield-rate-on-cell-processors-20-or-less.html
Original article at: http://www.reed-electronics.com/electronicnews/article/CA6350202.html?industryid=21365
That same article was btw used by this blog earlier this week regarding backwards compability
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I think I will not be reading this site any time soon. I will find other sites that actually keep up with news and are not Hell Bent to print EVERYTHING negative about the product.
There maybe some good but read those carefully, they seem to put in a little jab here or there.
Well, best of luck all. I'm off to read real up to date news from other sites that don't bash with each article.
let alone most of the comment leavers....
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yeah for ps3, it will rock your socks.
woot! ps3 is great.
I cant believe sony is making the ps3!
the ps3 is the best console ever!!
that would get boring and wouldnt be news. what good news have you heard from the ps3 lately? my point exactly if there is no good news to post then your just going to see bad news.
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thats the link confirming this is new news. so all you little sony fanboys can go back and wish this was old news but that still doesnt help that the cell is getting 10% yeild rates with only 4 cores able to run a month before they have to start mass producing them.
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And to #2 - you've got alot of gall to accuse us of not reading the original article and leaving out information, when that very information IS IN THIS POST! (2nd paragraph) Why don't YOU read before you go on a commenting rampage? Thanks.
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anyway, once the writer called the PS3 a "toy" i lost all respect for what was otherwise a relatively interesting article. there are also misleading things in the article, and the comment section under the article was very informative to those that may misinterpret what the people at IBM were trying to say. i have no worries that the PS3 will be a kickass console. and even in it's early stage in life, it's cranking out visuals on par with the 360 (ie, Heavenly Sword), so i can't wait to see what it'll be capable of in a year or two.
all this negative press is getting real tiring though, and i'm tempted to stop looking to the internet for my gaming news period, as, honestly, there's way too much opinion across the net, and very little objective journalism.
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they aim to have 2 million units at launch, 4 million by the end of december, and 6 million by end of march 07... so either yields are going to not get in the way of that, or we'll see xbox360 launch numbers all over again!
argh! i couldn't stand to see sony fail as bad as microsoft... also, if wii really comes out 1 month before ps3 isn't it going to be a bit annoying to have to pay 450 quid for a new games console only a month after you've paid 200 quid for a new games console?
i'm still going to try to get one, who cares about chip yields? i don't, i know ibm are a good lot, and sony are my friends too...
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You think sony wants you as a friend?
Nintendo...Microsoft...and Sony...just want your money...lol
a good lot my ass.
Money greedy bastards is more like it.
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for the PS3, there are a handful of games that i'm really looking forward to playing (some playing *again*): Untold Legends, Warhawk, Resistance: Fall of Man, Heavenly Sword, Brothers in Arms, Mercenaries 2, Assassin's Creed, MGS4, FFXIII to name but a few. there's more than enough coming out this year and next to keep me happy. and as i've mentioned in another thread, 40 million gamers started their gaming with the PS1 (the SNES had sold 60 million units, the PS1 100 million, so Sony grew the market by 40 million people). judging by the sales of the GC, Nintendo support from the gamers have fallen off drastically since the SNES' heyday (the GC sold 25 million units).
the point i'm trying to make, is that hardcore Sony fans will be the first to gobble up PS3's this November, regardless of price. if you aren't a hardcore Sony fan, you won't be getting a PS3 this year. and even if you are, it's going to be a battle trying to snag one by years end. most of the fans will have to wait until 2007. and judging by the 25 million X Boxes sold compared to the 100 million and counting PS2s sold, Sony fans would more likely spit on the 360 than purchase one as a "substitute" for their PS3. they'll wait. maybe not patiently, but they'll wait. i plan on getting a 360, but not until more than five games that pique my interest come out for the console (so far, there's Lost Planet, Mass Effect, and Crackdown. two more games that i can't buy for my kickass PC, and i'll be sold).
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also, unless we know exactly what yields and their percentages mean truly, it's a waste of energy to get worked up (whether positive or negative) about it. i find the article rather encouraging in a way, as it shows that the Cell is a beast. and when on form, it's going to deliver some amazing content (tell me you guys didn't think the videos for Afrika were actually nature videos. and that's just a start). another point of interest is that apparently all the demos for PS3 at E3 this year were running off of the *Cell*, not the RSX. the Cell was rendering each of those games. we don't even know what the RSX can do yet. i find that pretty impressive, really.
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In this case, nothing. There's a big world out there, where people are able to discuss the PS3 (good and bad) without the help of MS. :|
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Read the interview.
SONY and IBM took that fact into account from the very start.
Reeves was talking about logic redunancy :|, idiots.
He was explaining why they are producing 8 core Cells, not 7 cores. And they do it to prevent systems from crashing, so you WON'T have to sent the machine for repair.
Here's the link to the interview:
http://www.reed-electronics.com/electronicnews/article/CA6350202.html?industryid=21365
With people like Ernest G. ps3.qj.net is flopping constantly, and went from being a reliable news source to just another rumor posting site. Congratulations , keep up the weak work.
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And Figboy is a ridiculous fanboy who should have his right to speak revoked.
Either way, we'll see how all the consoles do when they launch. I'm still thinking that Japan is going to go crazy over the Wii, and the PS3 will be in second over there. It's hard to say with America, though.
~Dac
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What are you talking about? :) The ONLY demo we've seen running on just the Cell processor was the landscape demo show during Sony E3 conference LAST year. Everything else we see for the PS3 is running off PS3 hardware at various stages of developement, using both the CPU and GPU.
Kaz Harai said during the Sony conference this year, that final devkits were already being shipped and that some of the PS3 games on the show floor are running on those final devkits. Therefore everything you saw during the conference was running on final hardware, and NO games or demos were running without the use of the RSX.
Where on earth did you get the idea that the RSX was not being used in PS3 games and demos?
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The've been telling us for a while that they plan to embed 'cells' in most of thier future products.
(And get them all integrated!)
And what will be sitting in the middle...
7-8 core's of PS3 delight.
(Go look at IBM's cell pages on the web, they speak of the connectivity potencial there...)
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