Assassin's Creed 360 To Feature Better Crowd AI? |
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Across message boards everywhere a cry rings out, "SDF ASSEMBLE!!!"
Mainly this is in response to a seemingly offhand comment made in a recent IGN article talking about Ubisoft's sure-fire medieval themed mega-hit, Assassin's Creed.
"While the PlayStation 3 and 360 versions of Assassin's Creed are virtually identical, Raymond did say that on the 360 the team is putting a special emphasis on achievements. The hardware also allows for improved threading, which will improve even further the crowd AI."
Ruh-roh! At least it seems that way at first glance. Some have speculated that the 360 was the lead platform all along, and that this explains the console being able to deliver better performance in that regard. Others are stating that this is a by-product of the fact that multi-platform games are not well suited to the PS3's Cell processor, which requires extremely specialised coding in order to truly shine.
Me? I think there's been some misunderstanding, it's a very rare thing for a developer to come out and state in black and white that one version of a game will be better than the other, especially a developer with such a strong multiplatform bent as Ubisoft. Methinks folks are getting confusticated by the wordification of said article, and that perhaps Ubisoft meant that next-generation hardware in general allows for improved threading, of course, that might just be the beer talking.
Let's be civil in the comments below shall we?
Via IGN
16 Jumps Heavy Rain US box art revealed
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Comments [refresh]
SDF GOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOO!!!!!!!
lawl you know a system is sh1t when it needs a fake group of people to defend it. bunch of f4gs
"lawl you know a system is sh1t when it needs a fake group of people to defend it. bunch of f4gs"
what fake group?
Are you a *****ing moron?
sdf why create a group of people who have no relation to each other, other than that they all buy into anything sony says. Maybe calling it a "fake" group was the wrong wording. how about a group of brainwashed ignorant f4gs? does that work better for you, you *****ing dipsh1t.
So much for being civil.....I wanna say it this time...
360 FTW !!! 2 TFLOPS FTL !!!
The only reason why the AI will possibly be better on 360 is they are to LAZY to do it even better on PS3. And buy the way if it was an announcement after the X06 it's not a surprise.
M$ pay them to talk BULLS**T. It's technically impossible to not be able to transfer logical code on an other platform. If it was graphical capability OK. But IT'S NOT!
It think UBISOFT is really close to be buy by M$.
You're funny, just accept buddy, just accept...
# is a retard, you say the only reason why the ai will be better is cause there to lazy? then shouldnt you be pissed at sony for including a hard to code for processor? and in no way will ubisoft get sold to ms about a year ago ea was gonna buy them out and they freaked and started a campaign to not allow them to do so. ubisoft is a french company and they dislike american companys trying to impose/buy them out.
JAJAJa, #6, you are the lazy one cuase you don't think enought.
Ps3 sucks.
I can accept that the 360 versinon will have better AI, probably not a huge difference and i can imagine that the PS3 version will have some strengths as well.
Like more, stupider people on PS3 and less, smarter people on 360 lol.
Others are stating that this is a by-product of the fact that multi-platform games are not well suited to the PS3's Cell processor, which requires extremely specialised coding in order to truly shine.
I dont think the Cell processor requires extreme specialised coding i think it requries more complex and different coding because it is different from any other processor to date. which would explain why mulit-platform games would run differently on 360 and PS3.
The Cell processor can handle more than 360s though thats for sure.
But it is definately possible, as 360 does better out of order threading operations, it also has alot more "general" processing power, which is what is used for AI and physics...360 is an eligantly designed machine, which MS built from the ground up with the idea of it being able to run games efficiently....that is why the 2TFLOPS that sony fanboi's like to throw around means absolutely nothing....my buddy had an old beater muscle car with some crazzy ass engine in it and the car had 500hp, but it would still get blown away by a porsche with half the horsepower.....same idea, an elegant and well thought out design can beat just raw horsepower.....
oh it's good news. WOW the x360 is the ultimate machine :(
WHAT YOU REALLY THINK, THAT STATEMENT MAKE YOUR MACHINE MORE POWERFULL MY A$$!!!!!!!!!!
First of all I'm from Montreal and my friend is working in the ubisoft building. He tell me that Ubisoft are doing everything they can to privilege M$. Why because M$ give more money. Do you think that the Splinter cell announcement are a coincidence?
By the way why did you have time to post on PS3 section if you have a x360 and it's SOOOOO GOOOD:( . Oh i know It's because it s**k and all the games are boring.
You are right...the cell as a stand alone processor is an amazing development and Sony will make much money selling huge arrays of cell processors to universities and governments. The thing is, I don't think they were thinking too much about how well it would do as a video game processor. I see their mentality being somewhere along the line of: "if we just spent 100's of millions of dollars developing this new processor, why make another one for our video game console, let's just use this one." and tossed it in there without too much thought as too the overall architecture of the machine.
Only time will tell how it will do as a gaming chip, but it is very specialized and games like more general processesing....
He told me that they consider using Cell's SPUs in late 2007 / early 2008, says they were just not yet in the mood to program them for now. ;)
lol
the call of duty game for ps3 or x360(maybe im wrong about the title)
ps3 call of duty will be having more lightning effect than xbox360 as stated by the dev
so the fight is 1:1
fair and square
Ps3 wins the graphics
X360 wins the AI
How the hell is physics out of order processing? Are you a retard, or did you never get through high school physics? Then you talk about how a mainly vector based processor is bad for videogames. Dude the only thing that is out-of-order in games is the AI, everything else is geometry and direct reaction from input (which includes physics ie a force on an object then CALCULATE!). The reason AI is out-of-order is because of the logic and algorithims that it uses. And since you don't know there are some really nifty logic tricks that can enhance program efficiency by a ton. Do you think John Carmack works for Epic too?
Sorry if I was rude, not really. Anyways, you're not the first I've seen state that games are becoming more and more general as if you read it in an article.
Matriced AI is the future. (Oh, and since you probably don't know; VECTOR processors drink matrices, its their Red Bull.)
Devs sacrifice the AI for better Graphics - PS3
Devs sacrifice the Graphics for better AI - Xbox 360
Right some ppl on ere are just stupid! Is there any point arguing about the capabilities of the consoles? The 360 is never going to be as powerful as the PS3, surprisingly enough, because its a whole year older!! I have a 360 and I when read articles like this and see the comment I think to myself "who cares?!"
This console 'war' is just a waste of time. I simply hope Assassin's Creed is a great game, rather than hoping it can 'get one over' on the PS3.
Also to #13... Someone always moans about 360 fans posting in the PS3 section or the other way round... If you hadn't worked it out yet, they post the SAME ARTICLE ON BOTH!!
You know what this proves? That people DON'T REALLY know a damn sh1t about what the tech specs do for a gaming console.
Stop pretending like you know what version will be better. Stop pretending like you know the intricacies of each console and what each one does for you.
The only ones who REALLY know are game developers, and there really aren't a whole lot of them on this website.
For you people, STOP posting tech specs as a reason why a console will emerge victorious.
Nobody really knows why Assassin's Creed will have a greater emphasis on achivements. Nobody except Ubisoft employee's working on Assassin's Creed.
Are you one of them? Didn't think so.
I see your theory. That the words were messed uped, emm yes.
Its good to know there are other engineers on the net that can see through all the ***** that these f4kers with 8th grade educations enjoy posting, and ive never actually heard of matrice processing, then again im a third year EE major so programming is far second to hardware for me but definitely all vector equations at least on paper are solved in matrices so i think i see where your coming from
Ease up. The stuff you're talking about is definitely not high school level education. I never learned a lick of coding or computer processing in high school, and I highly doubt anyone who isn't interested in comuters or gaming knows a thing about it either. This stuff isn't common knowledge, so please don't tell people they're retards because they don't study coding extensively.
then they should probably shut the f4k up
.
lol, and you really think this is real? LOL
I mean, it's not like the AI is really hard to run for a console like the ps3, the x360 and even the wii! I mean, the AI on the ps3 should normally be even more mowerfull, a lot, because of the specialisation of the cell! yeah I suppose to multi-platform it's harder but to say 2 version of the same games will be different? this would just show how useless their ps3 devs are. I mean, nobody would say that if they were not paid my M$, lol. Like mistwalker making exclusive x360, they've been paid 40 M$, it's a LOT. so personally I suppose the big difference between the ps3 and x360 won't be the hardware at all, but the games!
ps: this is fake, I mean, LIKE the xbox 360 uniformed platform could run faster than the 7 CPU cell processors, lol. it's absurd, anyway, I like ubisoft so I'll let them for this one, but they should stop saying stupidity like that, even if they were paid... ( even morst ).
The comment I made about physics being out of order is completely legit PistolSmoke, even high schoolers (assume they're taught well) should know that there aren't multiple variables that govern the trajectory of a thrown ball. But there are factors, KNOWN factors, so; in the end all a processors needs after knowing all of the factors is a force vector. Bada bing Bada boom! Now granted someone with a secondary education may not understand it to that extent; however, with a little intuition and understanding of the systems one could extrapolate a similar conclusion.
Yeah I'm just kinda tired of all this FUD (doesn't matter on who it's focused, but SONY is getting alot) which consists of people repeating faulty and/or information across blogs, forums, and message boards. Oh and on the vector processing it does both matrices and vectors equally well, cause for each added dimension to a matrix it is just another vector(as I'm sure you know). Even vectorization can be done in algorithims and code, albeight with some good memory management; ever use MATLAB?
BTW my friend is an EE major as well, I found this article and he really enjoyed too.
http://www.blachford.info/computer/Cell/Cell0_v2.html
very interesting, thanx for the article
Instead of fighting ps3 and xbox 360, let us join up and destroy the wii.
People overhyped the cell hands down, every company is going with molti core/ threaded general purpose cpu's even mac droped ibm's dream cell for the intel. however we will see these style cpu's in tv's and such thats because they are awesome at streaming vidio/audio which is exactly what sony thinks is a priority streaming cgi prerendered or blueray movies would be the priority for cell. the games are meant to be worked around its media configuration. unfortunatly once you start with physics, AI, or scripted animations it becomes apparent that those 3 core's with 3 threads each and the 128 vmx registers (much more than cells ppu) and even that l1/l2 cache are exactly what is needed for ingame calculations.
I don't need to even mention the crippleing effect sony will run into by only having 256 gpu and 256 system memory when xbox has a total 512 that can be used for textures with only a fraction of that memory being used for the dash apposed to the memory hog sony put on the ps3.
no system is perfect but i dont think sony desighnd ps3 as a blue ray player that can play video games not the other way around as they would like there fans to think. the one general perpose ppu they have in it is made to be more of a controller for the spes than to calculate on its own.
Just read the article I posted in comment 27. Its long but very informative.
haha...360 is better capiable at handling more ***** then the ps3 ever will they cant win sony sux ass lol...also another reason why Naruto is coming to 360 and not ps3...
Who the ***** likes/cares about naruto?
Some gay ass little 10 year old runnin around with a ninja star
You look really stupid posting what you said without reading any of the other posts before you.
here's my 2 cents.
When you make a game on specific hardware, obviously that game is going to be optimized to run on that hardware and it will be tricky to get it to run the same when it is ported to some other hardware.
Ok, here's a real life example. Say you have a ps2. Not a very powerful machine by today's standards, but it will play GT4 quite nicely. Now take you computer. I'm assuming it's more powerful than a PS2. (maybe running around 3GHz)Will GT4 ever run at same speed on your computer as it does on the PS2? I doubt it. I'm sure your computer could handle GT4, but unfortunatly, the game isn't optimized for it.
So before we go making random comments like "PS3 sucks, FTW! ", lets just consider that maybe Ubisoft started development on Assasin's Creed using the xbox development tools first. This would give them a chance to optimize the game to run on the xbox before they got hold of enough PS3 development kits. Had they optimized the game to run on PS3 first, I'm sure the PS3 A.I among other things would have left the xbox version in the dust. (Sorry, that last line was my inner sony fanboy talking :P)
...i`m tending towards the 360 now ,
i wouldn`t give too much about those technical rumors.
There are far less people who really understand those two machines , than people writing and blogging about them.
y naruto is goint to XBOX360?
because PS3 IS NOT EVEN OUT YET!
when it does,naruto will be back
USE UR BRAINS,TARDS
32. » "well i guess this proves it
haha...360 is better capiable at handling more ***** then the ps3 ever will they cant win sony sux ass lol...also another reason why Naruto is coming to 360 and not ps3..."
Thank god. Now I see who likes 360's, people who like bad games and bad animes :(
its late and ill make this quick, to the one who commented on the xbox360 being built for playing games efficiently from the ground up. Why the high failure rates, the efficient games causeing ring of deaths, heating problems, and so on. MS might have wanted a efficient machine but they rushed it. The machine is a specialized pc that uses direct x protocols to gain ease in programing graphics. If direct x was actualy a litte more efficient and was a middleware peice of software, then maybe wed be seeing real difference between the two hardware, but its not. MS holds a pc gaming program streamed and refined by other companies and re released under MS's name while Sony and nintendo have to build their own up each time.
Because of direct x the 360 will reach its peak much quicker than the other two systems and platau. While the WII and PS3 will, with a high probability, surpass the expectations and predictions of their own design specs, like their predecessors.
>"Why the high failure rates, the efficient games causeing ring of deaths, heating problems, and so on."
These are specific hardware issues which has nothing to do with efficiency of the console's design for games. That's like questioning the PS2's hardware design for gaming because of the DREs.
>"Sony and nintendo have to build their own up each time."
Yes, because the GPUs of the PS3 and Wii have absolutely no PC origins at all... oh wait.
>"Because of direct x the 360 will reach its peak much quicker than the other two systems and platau. While the WII and PS3 will, with a high probability, surpass the expectations and predictions of their own design specs, like their predecessors."
LOL! The 360 is no more likely to 'plateau' than the PS3 or Wii and is just as likely to surpass our expectations as the other two consoles.
and me
Things like this were common with the PS2 and the Xbox. The norm was to make the games for the weakest system and the port it to the most powerful system, most of the time without any change to take advantage of the superior hardware. Right now multiplataform games are going to be developed for the 360, and them port to the PS3, and in the end both games will look the same. (this is a businnes, developers are not going to waste money making innecessary adjustment if they are not needed). The only games that will truly show the power of the system are the exclusive ones.
But I think after some years ( 1-2 ) after the ps3 launched, more games will directly go on ps3 AND will be ported ( if they can ) to the xbox 360. Because everybody should know that square-enix alone could sell ps3s, and now with level 5 and kojima production... lol, anyway, I think a lot of exclusive will help a lot, yeah! (shirokishi looks TOO GREAT, if the game would have come with the ps3 nobody would have bought xbox 360 nor wii, lol )
Ok, I have run over all the 40+ comments before me in 10 minutes; however, the thing most of you talked about is not important after all, I think. Most of you’re talking on the power between the PS3 and X360 and the PS3 games are not getting the optimizations they need to really shine if the games were first or mainly made for the X360 then ported. Here’s another fact we must realize; the earliest time when I can actually buy the PS3 console is late February or March of 2007 (I’ve talk about this issue before. If you want to buy the PS3 before Feb of 2007, you must pay so much money to buy bundled cr$ps like extra controllers and mediocre games such as, Cr$pji: Days of the Blade and extra batteries). This is a thought-provoking piece of writing and not written for everyone. If you couldn't take it so far, stop reading.
Discussing the hardware specifications of consoles are not important folks. Why? Due to the fact that when I actually (yes, this word is important since it means I actually pay money to buy the console) buy a game for the PS3, it won’t happen until so many days and weeks later. (Yes, MS is having unfair advantages in many ways with their unfinished and rushed X360 consoles by releasing a year early.)
One more reason why it’s completely useless to talk about the power between the two consoles like most of you talked so far (or the differences between the same game which is designed for both consoles). When I actually buy a game, I go to one or two gaming sites then download actual gameplay footages (no real-time renders) and reviews. Then I decide whether or not I’ll waste money on this game based on the detailed impressions, detailed pros and cons of the game. (Yes, I don’t care anything about screenshots of a game, they have no importance. Why? Screenshots don’t say anything about the frame rates. Starbreeze’s upcoming The Darkness is a multiplatformer . The developers said that when you compare the screenshots of both games, they will look almost same or the PS3 version having very slight advantage. Yes, it’s only screenshots which are not moving; I watched actual footages of both X360 and PS3 versions of Call of Duty 3. X360 version’s graphics was like 6 out of 10 while having like 15 frames per second. PS3 version’s graphics was like 10 out 10 while having like 60 fps just like most other PS3 titles.)
Now, if you’re not dumb-witted, you realised my point yet. I’ll not even think about how powerful the console (hardware) is when I actually pay money to buy a game (software). Moreover, many ppl here also talked about some extra content Assassin’s Creed will have for the X360 version. I just don’t care about those cr$ps. Why? When I paid about $110 (Canadian dollars) to buy Half Life 2 (something like special edition which contained books and even a pair of T-shirts and some more) just after when it came out, I have never played the single player portion of H.L.2 more than like 2 hours in total (that means since 2004 until now). I just used cheat keys (CVars: command variables) to start every single level and see what’s in this game.
Ubisoft in the whole is a very big game publisher and developer in France. Ubisoft has several (I don’t remember the exact number now) game developer studios worldwide in the US, Canada, France, and some other countries. The one and only game called Assassin’s Creed is developed by Montreal, Quebec, Canada studio. If Jade Raymond, the female boss who thinks she suddenly became the hot new girl on the block of that Montreal studio supports MS, it’s only one of several Ubisoft studios anyway. Yes MS paid huge money to bring Peter Jackson and Jade Raymond to their X06 expo and for some more which to come.
Anyway, have you heard the rumor that the new Halo game will be titled as ‘Peter Jackson’s Halo 3: The Official Game of the Movie’. If this comes true, I’ll have to buy a copy of this ridiculous 3rd Halo game because it will be so fun to play ‘Catch with the Box’ game with my friend. (I have bought the original Xbox years ago only because I heard all those hu
i worked on CoD3 before i went back to college, i can tell you that your full of *****
ONE more month and ill be at home sitting in front of my 60" Sony HDTV, BOSE surround speakers, 360, PS3, Wii, xbox and of course a PHAT BLEEZY playing and enjoying these consoles while u FANBIOTCHES hoot and holler about which system is the best, better graphics, better processor, better nut taste, best line up, better sales...etc..
ARENT YOU JEALOUS??!!
hahahahahahaha! !!
I was going on what I read on arstechnica and anandtech. I am well aware that there are set outcomes for physics based on equations. The same can be said for game AI as well, as it is programmed to react the same way based on information in different variables (location, player action, player location, player health etc) just like calculating physics of an object with different masses, locations, gravities acceleration, etc....
It's a matter of dealing with which character or objects needs to have a calculation done on it. You are not going to check the state of every character and every object each frame to see if something needs to be done to it....this is where out-of-order comes in, even for physics....I've had 2 years of programming in university before I decided I didn't want to be a corporate slave monkey and changed my major, so I know what i'm talking about to a point.
Your point is valid about actually viewing it on both consoles, however, you lose it when you talk about watching game videos and using tht as your basis. There are generally too many variables in encoding video. Which codec, which bitrate/frame rate, etc. You can't judge copiness by a video. Go and take a look at the games in the stores when they come out. That's the only way to really know.
not that i know anymore than you about programming, but what you said still does not support your original argument. when dealing with physics object oriented programming OOO operations are used to designate which object a vector operation is needed for. yet, vector operations are still in-order. so thus physics calculations are not OOO. additionally, the cells PPU handles all calls for OOO programming where vector calculations are performed by a selected SPE. so basically your argument is bust.
id also like to clarify though that ive owned a 360 since launch and ill be getting a ps3 of course too and both systems are essentially so powerful that i doubt (of course i cant be positive on this) either will be maximized in their 4 to 5 year life-cycle. programming for the cell, programming for multiple threads, and programming using the unified shader architecture takes more time and more money. and of course, every good engineer is taught that the number one factor in production is money. if the game industry is in a state of recession then how is it likely that companies will spend loads more money on RnD to learn how to maximize any of the available hardware? i suppose thats where middle ware comes in, so i guess everything will look like unreal tourniment or half-life in a few years.
My main arguement was that 360 is better equiped to handle general processing, such as physics AI and game control....
"At any rate, Playstation 3 fanboys shouldn't get all flush over the idea that the Xenon will struggle on non-graphics code. However bad off Xenon will be in that department, the PS3's Cell will probably be worse. The Cell has only one PPE to the Xenon's three, which means that developers will have to cram all their game control, AI, and physics code into at most two threads that are sharing a very narrow execution core with no instruction window. (Don't bother suggesting that the PS3 can use its SPEs for branch-intensive code, because the SPEs lack branch prediction entirely.) Furthermore, the PS3's L2 is only 512K, which is half the size of the Xenon's L2. So the PS3 doesn't get much help with branches in the cache department. In short, the PS3 may fare a bit worse than the Xenon on non-graphics code, but on the upside it will probably fare a bit better on graphics code because of the seven SPEs. "
taken from
http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/xbox360-2.ars/7
That's what I was refferring too, the 3 ppe's vs 1
Larger chache sizes don't neccessarily mean better and faster, actually it usually means less powerefficient. Check out this article on the CELLs arcitecture and capabilities, not just speculation based on vague information.
http://www.blachford.info/computer/Cell/Cell0_v2.html
I doubt you will read it but if you do I'm sure you'll be surprised about as long as the CELL has a proper compiler (which it has to considering it will be used as an imbedded processor) it will smash any other processor regardless of type of problem. Oh and the diminishing returns was interesting, especially since it was predicted in the 80's. Essentially the perfomance gain as you add logic circiutry gets less and less each time to a point where a chip with less circiutry can run faster because of less heat output and gain a better increase thatn the extra circiutry at lower speeds. The abstraction discussion is very important for current hardware, but anywho... I really hope you read the article befroe you start saying the CELL can't do something as well as another cpu, because chances are it would probably destroy it.
look both systems are powerful in handling games like this and all its physics and AI. So whats with all the bull***** talk . It's *****ing annoying me to death. First off you xbox fanboys are just as gay as the sony fanboys, always talking ***** about who's better when yopu havent even played it yet. Someone should blow both of your heads off, this whole game war is bull*****. And second maybe they had enough time to enhance the ai on the 360 version because they probably finished the ps3 version earlier. You never know. And maybe the ps3 is more powerful than the 360, they've been holding out for a year now. And last all you xbox fanboys STFU and stop saying that this is the end for sony, Some sony fanboys thought the 360 would fail and it didnt so far so dont you see your flamming wont work. And dont forget who knocked out sega. They can survive and sell as much hardware as ms did during launch
.
Even though the 360 came out a year earlier...their hardware specs were announced almost at the same exact time. So the technology is really about the same age. Microsoft just went out on a limb and spent a *****load of money to produce their machine faster (with some faulty units sneaking by). The PS3 added the 1080p support, but MS is also working on this. I think both systems will be on an almost even playing field graphically from a Software engineer standpoint. Competition is great for the consumers...I will be buying a PS3 even though I have a 360 already...
everybodys fighting over whos system is better...this is soo funny....you people sure are stupid...u guys are just to poor to buy 2 consoles...if u really dont have that kinda money, i doubt u have a 1080p 60 inch or more tv.
1080p is FOR BIG TVS WITH HDMI
IF U HAVE THAT KINDA MONEY...GET BOTH SYSTEMS
i swear everybody here is taking the console "wars" a little too serious....i dont give a ***** which consoles better...IM GETTIN BOTH
so i can play them on my lovely 1080p 67' samsung HDTV
so i will probably be playing both on it, then i can make the observations myself of which is better.
your a dumbass, if you didnt read half the people on this thread have or are working on college degrees in engineering and ARE getting both consoles, i hate dipsh1ts like you
Xbox 360 fanboys need to stop taking things so literally, and accept the fact that both systems are equal in power. Same goes for SDFers out there, the Xbox 360 and PS3 can both do some pretty amazing things with games by their processing, graphical and artificial intelligence power. Nuff' said.
No one's going to read this at #59, but here's an idea...
I don't think anyone should waste their time arguing about what game is better or what console is better, but since that will happen anyway, look at it this way, your arguing with 10 year olds OR possibly 30 year olds with no lives. HOW PATHETIC IS THAT!(Just in case the idiots in here are wondering, this is not yelling, just making sure you can see it, you know, kinda like yelling :))
Regardless, the dumbest thing I've ever seen in these blogs/forums is people fighting about gaming. Bunch of ignoramuses!