WHAT!!??

No need to be so bent out of shape. Nintendo just couldn't keep up with Sony and MS consoles when it came to hardcore games so they simply said: "Hmm, are we a company loyal to our fans? No. Do we want tons of money? Yes. But our loyal fans will be pissed.... pssh there's like 10 of them anyway."



And then came the Wii and a big boot up the arse of every hardcore gamer who liked Nintendo. End.

aw... you summed it up for me

Maybe they aim for a broader audience, but it seem the audience wasn't present to play Wii Music.



Looks like everything is not going as planned, Nintendo.

I have spent many hours infront of my xbox360, multiplayer, splitscreen, online, and alone...

But my Wii... we got into wii sports for about 2 months but got bored of it.

all the single player games got tiresome with the crappy wii motes...

Wii + wiimotes are just a gimmick.



long story short... sold my wii, kept the xbox360.



Love my DS though! play it everyday. :)

At least the DS still rapes. I'm sure Ninty will ruin that soon too... Oh wait, DSi. Yes! Let's start rehashing consoles too! Gamecube v2 AND DSv2!

I am going to chalk this one up to the American Branch of Nintendo. Just like at E3 how they tried to portray their game lineup as being anything but slightly interesting. I remember seeing this goober there and I thought he looked like he would say and do stupid stuff. Oh well all three developers have not been faring too well lately.

Including the PS3 part.

I remember in the days of the 8bit and 16bit era when Nintendo had to keep raising the bar for their competition. The only Nintendo console I've ever had in my life was the SNES, but I've every Sega console there was. Sega to me (imo) was the one who cared about the true gamer. Sega made more original and more exciting titles than Nintendo ever had. It's not like Sega can't live without Sonic The Hedgehog, but could Nintendo live without the Mario clan? Honestly I think that every NIntendo generation has lived off of Mario games in one form or another (there are dozens of them).



I wouldn't say that this is the first time that Nintendo has abandoned the gamer though. It seems that whenever a new system is released they just drop all support of their previous platorm on the drop of a dime. I know comsoles only have a limited life but where does that leave the gamer? We are forced to purchase the nextt console or we're left in the dust. Then again Wii reminds me a lot of Gamecube in terns of graphics and gameplay just with different controls so to me it's not really a next-gen platform.



I also remember when Nintendo laughed at Sony's decision to use an optical disc format (CD) for their new console (PSX). Who came out on top? Just read a little history. PSX dominated the N64 and Gamecube was wiped off the map by PS2. Again, I'm not speaking from a fanboy mentallity, but what does Nintendo think is going to be different this time around when there just releasing mostly ports of previous gen titles, lost or forgotten franchises, and crappy third party support? Basically it's the same marketing campaign they've always had only this time the Regginator came out and basically said, "We're all about the money and our fans will eat anything they're fed." (He didnt really say that.)

I love pokemon too.

Wii is fun and all. It was the most affordable, so it's what I got. I love Mario and Zelda. I love Smash Bros. I thought the Wii was th ebest thing ever when it came out. Now, though, I look at all the Wii games. Barbie here, Freddy Fish there, Sports crap this and kiddie crap that.



It's sad. It really is.



PS2 definitely pwned Gamecube. PS2 also pwned Xbox. PS2 was the best of that gen.



Yeah, Nintendo laughed at the optical disc idea. But guess what.



Playstation was originally a disc drive for the SNES. When Nintendo was going to allow Sony to make it.



Here is the crappy part.



(sry for caps, but I think it's neccessary)

WHEN NINTENDO FOUND OUT THEY COULD NOT MAKE M-O-N-E-Y $$$$ OFF OF IT, THEY TOLD SONY THEY COULD NOT DO IT.



Right then and there, back in the mid-late 90s, Nintendo killed themselves. They made Sony mad, so they came out with the Playstation-X. This, unfortunitely was also the death of Sega. Nintendo commited homocide then suicide.



I thought that the Wii was going to be the best console that I ever owned. I hated it when people called it a "glorified Gamecube." But now I see why, and I agree. I'll keep the Wii, because I'll always have hope. I was born with an NES. I got an SNES. I had a Gameboy, and a Pocket, and a Color, and an Advance. I have a DS (which still rocks, btw). I got the N64, and I got the Gamecube. I got the PS-1, I got the PS2. I got an Xbox. I've always played my PS2 the most. It broke. I'm sad.



Back to topic (sorry).



I just wish Nintendo would set things right. Casual games are cool and all. Get some money for bigger projects. That all good and whatnot. But they need to actually MAKE the bigger projects. Ninty will go nowhere fast if they keep on the same course. They will find that at the end of this path, there's a cliff. And they'll have fallen asleep at the wheel.



Come on Ninty, you can do it...

I hope...

I read the article and I'm trying to figure out WTF everyone's problem is? Seems to me the average person here only read the misleading title.



"Personally, I may enjoy mowing down aliens and saving the world, but I have to acknowledge that not everyone has the same sense as mine for their entertainment."



WTF is wrong with this statement? It's 100% true. Not everyone is the same. Different people like different things. Plus, it's been proven that there are more casual gamers then non-casual gamers.



"Games like Nintendogs, Brain Age and Wii Fit are revolutionary titles that] question the very definition of a video game, and they're also changing the way we look at the software business. [...] Wider appeal can also translate to longer appeal and maybe even to better appeal."



Again, WTF is wrong with this statement? Those are casual games and that are a HIT! They are a hit with Nintendo fans old and new. They are the very definition of a casual Nintendo gamer. Nintendo has never been "hard core". Why people expect them to be now is mind boggling!



"Translation: you'll like whatever we give you because everyone likes it too, so shut it. He concluded with:"



Seriously, WTF is this garbage? That is NOT a translation. That has nothing to do with what was said. This is just biased BS from Isaac as this verbage IS NOT IN THE SOURCE.



"If there were journalists here today from core gamer sites, they'd be grousing, 'yeah, well what about us?' So, I don't want to disappoint them even in absentia."



That is not a complete thought. Where's the rest of what was said? Again, this entire article reeks of biased garbage snips.



Let's look at a quote from the source with Isaac failed to address:



"By now, you all know how Nintendo chose a fundamentally different path," said Fils-Aime. "Instead of competing for the very best players, we decided to shoot for the most players."



Unlike Mr. Common Douche Bags idiot TRANSLATION about how "best players" really means "Nintendo fans", here's what this REALLY means. It means that Nintendo didn't try to go for the SMALL GROUP that is the elite gamer. They didn't attempt to compeat with a powerhouse console. In the end, why should they have? We already have two powerhouse consoles. Seriously, who the hell wants a third? People should be thanking Nintendo for giving us something NEW, something DIFFERENT.....CHOICE! For all you Obama supporters the word you'll understand is CHANGE! They wanted to grab a market that's been left untouched, the casual gamer. They wanted to bring the most players on board.



For those of you that think that stinks, I want you to explain to me WHY those new gamers should remain left out in the cold? Why do you hate them so much?

"I just assumed that they would make at least some games that were for a mature audience"



1. Why would you assume that? Nintendo has never been about ADULT/MATURE titles.



2. They do/will have a few. Wish granted!

no offense intended isohaven

i was just being a smartarse

i've seen how others push your buttons and thought "perfect opportunity"

i dont think badly of you mate

i'm just a prankster X-D

And I'm turning into a grumpy old man!

"My commentary, as you so put it, was only to say what you have said: Nintendo chose to go with the casual consumer"



That's not what your commentary did:



"we're about quantity, not quality"



So, you claim you meant quantity of gamers? If that's true then what about quality? Low quality gamers? That doesn't make sense. That comment is a very well known statement. It means only one thing to people these days. Attaching it to people makes no sense. It only makes sense when you attach it to product. To call over 36 million people low quality in one fowl swoop is reckless.



"you'll like whatever we give you because everyone likes it too, so shut it."



Again, this has nothing to do with people. You are again addressing product. This is your comment and it makes no sense against the source article.



This is not a translation of anything from the source.



"I just heavily focused on how they left behind their former fanbase in the process."



I still don't understand this argument. The Wii gives us Zelda, Metroid, Mario..... They have fully covered their "fanbase". Nintendo has always been about games on the casual side. They just stepped up the casual side of things and won the hearts of many. Sony was the first to give us what would be considered a "hard core game" genre.



"As for my title, it was a play on the gaming community, not Nintendo's games. Nintendo decided to give their attention to the "most" gamers - which I take it he meant gamers who only got into gaming when they got the Wii"



Did you mean to say NEW gamers? That's not what I got from that statement at all. He didn't MEAN anything other then what he said. You can't take someone's words then decide what you think they REALLY MEANT to say. He said what he said and nothing more.



Take a look at EVERYONE who plays video games. Now you have the opportunity to make a console and code some games. You want to make the biggest splash you can. Do you go with the small group of players, or the VERY LARGE group of players? Keep in mind, the third group of BOTH is still smaller then the VERY LARGE group of casual.





"instead of the fanbase they already had in previous generations of consoles, hence the "quality" of gamers."



Instead? I've owned every Nintendo console as well as every Sony console. They cater to me just fine and plenty of other people who frequent QJ have stated as such as well. So where's the data that states otherwise?



"We both said the same thing, only with a difference in opinion."



I disagree for the reasons stated above.



"but I also see it as a bad thing for the fanbase they left behind, and that's why I think it's a shame."



Again, I've yet to see any qualified polls of existing Nintendo fans that claim they no longer like the direction Nintendo is going. You make this comment yet can you qualify that any fanbase has been left behind? No, the select few knuckleheads on this site do not count.

GET SHIGURU MIYAMOTO BACK THE $#&@!%& IN NINTENDO!!!

What we don't agree on is whether they left their fanbase. That's our main disagreement, right?



That and your writing style on this article which you have to admit leads people to believe things that are not true about the source.



"So who is the fanbase anyway?"



I can only speak for myself. I'm one.



"The hardcore seems to think it's the hardcore"



Which is odd because Nintendo has never been hard core. They have always been casual. Just not AS casual. What you will find is that Wii games are similar to DS games prior to the Wii. Casual on a whole new level. For example Brain Academy. It was on the DS long before Wii and now it's a perfect example of a Wii style game.



The thing is, the Wii proved itself long before it came about. The Wii is a home based internet enabled DS with a lot more power.



"As for me, I think they left their fans for their lack of innovation."



You keep saying that but you don't qualify what you consider "fans".



"But as to their games, when it comes down to it, they're all the same."



The same as in themselves? Or the same as in last gen? For example Zelda Wii does NOT equal Mario Wii. So I assume you mean last gen. If that's the case then isn't that the very example of CATERING to past customers?



"You have gems here and there; Metroid, Mario Galaxy and Twilight Princess for example. But others are just the same thing in different packages."



Ok, so here I assume you meant the former. Sure there are a lot of games that are the same. But the same can be said about 360 and PS3. For those that aren't TOTAL FANS of fps then to them, they're all the same. Run around and shoot people. Blah blah, boring boring. I got sick of fps after Doom 2. It takes something VERY catchy to drag me into a fps and it doesn't happen often.



"They seem to focus most of their games on contests on who can balance the best, twirl the fastest, swing the hardest."



What I say Nintendo took OLD CASUAL and ramped it up, this is what I mean. They focused on multi player casual. That's what worked for them. Playing a game is fun but playing a game WITH OTHER PEOPLE (that isn't an fps) is a much more fun. At least, for the average person.



"Where are the games that actually has quality"



Zelda, Mario, Metroid, Wario, Brawl....those are my top anyway.



"that are challenging as well as fun, ones that you'll need more than good biceps to play?"



??? biceps? None of those required bicep use (ok, maybe the bow/arrow).

"on the fact that nintendo has never been hardcore, you knock everyone else for stating thier opinions instead of fact but right there you clearly drop an opinion."



That's not my opinion. It's fact. Also, I only knock people when they STATE their opinion as fact. Now here, you stated your opinion. That's fine. Do you want to explore it?



List every hard core title you can think of for each Nintendo system. Then we'll track down how many titles were released for each system and come up with a percentage per console for hard core titles.



Go ahead and list all the:



God of War's

Gears of War's

Halo's

FEAR's

................

For each Nintendo system. Taking "age" into account of course.



If you can show at least 51% of any console was hard core then you can prove that Nintendo has had a hard core system(s).



If you can show at least 30% of any console was hard core then you can prove that Nintendo at least TRIED to include hard core.



The last time I saw someone perform this little project, no Nintendo system came above 15%. But hey, if you can prove otherwise then great. Maybe they missed a bunch of titles.

Time doesn't matter.



"About my writing, they present the facts, though I admit with a heavy splatter of opinion"



Did you read this back to yourself? You gave facts that were heavy on opinion? Do I even need to use the word "fail" here?



"but everyone's entitled to an opinion"



Absolutly, as long as you do not present them as facts, which you did.



There is absolutly nothing factual about this, this is 100% your opinion:



Translation: you'll like whatever we give you because everyone likes it too, so shut it.



Yet you present it as a factual translation.

"I doubt that they based their responses solely on what I had to say."



I don't. I've seen plenty of people read specifically what was written by a QJ writer and take off running solely on that info. Very few people go to the source. Then, once you point them to the source and they realize their blunder, they usually spout WTF or f_ck QJ or something alone those lines.



I bet top dollar, people here have commented on this article based on nothing but the title. Which of course goes back to my earlier comments about that title meaning one thing and one thing only to the average person without it being explained otherwise.

Ok, I see what you're saying, BUT the only way someone can do that is IF they read the source as well THEN figure out which part of YOUR article is just exagurated opinion and which is actual fact.



The problem here is I figured your article was a bunch of bull, so I hunted down the source to get the REAL story.



Why would you want your readers to do that? That makes you look bad. I had some buddies at gizmodo take a look at your article and yeah....they didn't have nice things to say about you (as a journalist) or your article.



You ever hear the term, "Stick to the facts?"

"The actual quotes were there though."



Quoting someone is not reporting. Everything in your article that is not a quote is your report. Also, as you clearly stated"



"with a heavy splatter of opinion"



and



"pure sarcasm"



You did NOT report on the facts. You reported your opinion and sarcasm of what was actually said.



"What did you find in the source link that wasn't in the article, relevant to the thought "Nintendo and hardcore gamers"?"



1. MANY other quotes.



2. I found Leigh Alexander who actually knows how to REPORT.



3. However, it's not about finding MORE quotes in the source, it's about you lying in your article.



"Nintendo on its gaming community: we're about quantity, not quality"



Nintendo NEVER stated they are "not about quality" for either games or gamers. Not even remotely. Therefore that IS NOT Nintendo on it's gamming community. That is a lie.



"Writing isn't just about sticking to the facts, or else writers would just be regurgitating everything we read. If that's what readers want, they can RSS Reuters or something."



No dude, your OPINIONS need to stick to the facts. The above example is perfect. Just because someone stated they want the largest consumer base, you then turn that around into NOT WANTING quality? That is a ridiculous assumption at best and some of the poorest reporting I've read in along time.



Bottom line, your article is way off base from the source. So much so, people stopped commenting here as soon as I made a big deal about the source. My guess is, people then actually went to the source and no longer have anything to comment about regarding this article. There was a LOT of "screw Nintendo" before I pointed out the source and people got the REAL story.

"Many other quotes, yes, but they weren't relevant to the thought "Nintendo and hardcore gamers.""



What? Do you mean to say that the WHOLE story wasn't relevant to your propaganda? Sorry bud, the WHOLE STORY is relevant to the WHOLE STORY. EVERYTHING that came out of Reggie's mouth is relevant.



Also, why have you branched off into "Nintendo and hardcore gamers."? All of a sudden, your title is suppose to mean, Nintendo wants quantity casual but no quality hard core? Is Hard Core synonymous to quality? No.



"My angle was about Nintendo's sentiments towards hardcore gamers"



If that was true, then WTF does quality have to do with it? If it's about Hard Core gamers then what does Nintendo telling it's customers to "shut up" have to do with it?



"while Alexander summarized the whole interview"



You mean he REPORTED the interview.



"My opinions did stick to fact."



My posts above prove they did not. So this is the end of it. I say no and you say yes. There is no where else to go.



"But again, it seems your argument is hinging on the word "quality." While I only intended for the word to mean "hardcore""



Here's a tip then....SAY WHAT YOU MEAN. In no twisted use of the word does QUALITY equal HARD CORE.



"gamers whose quality of gameplay exposure is generally much more sophisticated than "softcore" casual gamers, you latched on to its degrading definition. I can't do anything about that."



This comment basically states that casual gamers know less (if anything) about gaming then hard core gamers. That's a worthless statement. Sales alone prove you wrong. Casual gamers obviously know plenty about gaming. They produce MORE MONEY to those that cater for them. That makes CASUAL gamers a HIGHER QUALITY then hard core gamers.



"Is that not faulty reasoning on your part?"



No at all. The BS stopped directly after I pointed out the source.



"From my experience as a writer, comments usually die off within 24 hours unless the news is really big or popular."



From my experience as a QJ commenter, they do not die after 24 hours. They die OFF meaning less and less. The comments here DIED.



"How about this? You had no evidence to support your claim that people stopped commenting because of your comment alone, yet you presented it as fact and not opinion. You translated raw data, incomplete as it is, and that's what you presented. On my part, I translated Reggie's quotes to how I understood them, and that's how I presented it."



WTF? Do I need to quote myself?



"My guess is...."



See the word guess? Don't make me post a dictionary link ;p



"I didn't lie, you just disagree with my interpretation."

Let me present you with a different form of thought. I know you are not an idiot. I know you understand VERY WELL what your title means to the average person. Claiming that Nintendo wish to portray telling it's customer to SHUT UP and claiming they do not care about quality is irresponsible. You may not want to admit it, but.....



"I've had plenty of other articles that was heavy on opinion yet you didn't complain. Possibly because we interpreted the news in the same way, yes?"



Point one out. I'm constantly hunting down the source of articles here on QJ and exposing the TRUTH. I believe I stuck a pin in your patent article as well. To date, I can't find anyone else that reported this news and that pathetic PDF looks pretty worthless. That doesn't mean it's not true, but we need more. Hell, even Freeplay agreed with me. I think hell froze over as that's the FIFTH TIME so far, three being within the week.

"Check PSP fanboy and Kotaku."



I checked out Kotaku and they would be a second site to even mention it however, they did not site any sources themselves.



"But if citing more gaming sites is not enough proof for you"



You only sourced one. Take the "s" of the word sites.



"and the PDF file just won't suffice, I don't know what else to offer you."



The PDF isn't even half the problem. Did you read my FULL comment? Did you read where I stated the news itself was probably true but.....



"You said that casual gamers produce more money hardcore gamers, ergo they have a higher quality. So you equate quality with how much money they bring in?"



I don't equate the word quality with anything in this article. I'm putting YOUR word to the test. I believe I also stated as such. "Quality" has nothing to do with this news.



"I'm sorry that you take offense at a joke (admittedly harsh) taken at Nintendo's expense"



THANK YOU. That is exactly what I was after. Also, I didn't take offense to anything. I wanted the truth about the article and got it from your source. I know from Reggie's words that your title is not true or the other assumptions.



"but that's all it was, and I wrote it under the assumption that readers would catch on."



There is no room for assumptions in any form of reporting.



"The whole story of this article is Nintendo and hardcore gamers."



Technically, no. The word HARD isn't even in your source. Hard Core Gamer is slang. Even Core Gamer has no real meaning. Core Gamer has been used to describe someone's who's main hobby is gamming. However, even then that does not describe WHAT games.



"Do we agree to disagree or you wanna keep going?"



I can go on forever! How big is your hard drive? ;p I've been in a three page discussion, does QJ have any 4 pagers?



Oh, here's some more "evidence", our stars keep bouncing all over the place. People are still here....just not commenting ;p

...and I quote:



"This was great, ISO, really"



We're having brain fun, something you wouldn't understand.

There is often confusion about what a hardcore gamer is. The term is often used to differentiate between types of hardcore gamers by such things as the amounts of time invested playing, how competitive the player is, preference for player versus player or player versus environment, game style or gameplay preference, or even the type of computer or console equipment used. Certain hardcore gamers are sometimes inaccurately labeled as casual gamers, often in a derogatory way, because of this differentiation even though they prefer playing games which are designed for hardcore gamers. This is common among MMORPG players where there is a demand for many different gameplay styles (e.g., solo play, quests, PvP, raid content, crafting) within a single game but limited developer ability to deliver all of them. The most important area in its usage is in the media relating to the games industry. It is a well noted success story of Games Publisher PR, that they were so easily able to persuade games journalists into accepting -undefined- the phrases 'hardcore' and 'casual'. Equivalent pairings to polarise consumers could have ranged from 'old-school' + 'mainstream', 'elitist' + 'easy-going' to 'dedicated' + 'uninformed'. However conjecture, based on the history of changes in the games industry, would suggest the choices of casual and hardcore were not arbitrary.