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Digital Foundry: Nintendo-nVidia deal is true, PSP2 is a "technological monster"

Posted Nov 15, 2009 at 7:06AM EST by Ryan F.

Listed in: PSP, Nintendo DS Tags: DS2, Nintendo, nVidia, PSP2, Sony

Tech blog Digital Foundry reports that sources "intimately involved with the alliances and deal-making within their sector" have effectively confirmed that Nintendo and nVidia are indeed teaming up for the next DS iteration. The report also mentions that Sony has formed an alliance with IMG for the PSP2.

While neither devices have been flat-out confirmed by both groups, Digital Foundry tosses around some tentative tech specs for the next generation of handheld gaming supposedly leaked by industry insiders. It's a long post, so we'll just get a few snippets for each handheld.

nVidia-powered DS? - Image 1

Here's what they can say about the DS2:

So, how does the Tegra 2 we expect to see in the new Nintendo handheld stack up? Let's just say that it is a significant improvement, and a colossal jump in performance compared to the current DS. While the amount of vertex shader units remains the same, TMUs and pixel shaders are doubled, and as the chip will be manufactured at a physically smaller size (40nm perhaps, versus the current Tegra's 65nm), we can expect a reasonable bump in clock speed too. Our sources can only speculate at this point, but suspect anything up to 300MHz is possible, depending on just how much the platform holders want to concentrate on battery power. The faster the chip, the more impact it has on battery life.

...

Regardless, there's no doubt that the new Nintendo unit will have a useful graphical power boost over what's been seen in the currently available Tegra devices, and in terms of the tech demo discussed previously, we also need to factor in that handheld consoles are unlikely to require full WVGA 800x480: an iPhone utilises a 480x320 screen, for example. Fewer pixels means more effects or potentially higher frame-rates.

And here's what PSP fans can allegedly expect from the PSP2:

PSP on steroids - Image 1 From what we've learned about the in-development PSP2, the device is going to be a technological monster. Insiders in the mobile space are fully aware that a deal has been struck between Sony and IMG (creators of the PowerVR derivatives found in the iPhone) and, as previously reported by Eurogamer, a multi-core variant of the forthcoming SGX543 looks set to the GPU of choice for the new machine. A four-core version of the chip appears to be most likely, and while this sounds like overkill, at 45nm you'd be looking at die of around 20 square millimetres based on measurement derived from IMG's own whitepaper. That's significantly lower than the silicon used by the current-generation PSP's graphics unit, which should give some inkling of an idea on costs and power consumption.

...

The raw potential of Sony's mooted solution is seriously impressive, to the point where you really have to sit down and take a deep breath before reading the next bit: we're talking about a GPU with the potential to be a halfway house between the raw power of the original Xbox's graphics chip and the Xenos GPU found in the Xbox 360, without factoring in all the advantages of running on a much lower resolution screen.

You can check out the full post by clicking the source link below. It's long and filled with a lot of technical terms, but it does make for some interesting weekend reading, especially for hardcore technophiles.

Via Digital Foundry

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(1)

So Sony is still using the "POWER!" ideaology like they did with the PS3. See how that turned out.......It was a major failure for the first few months with sales lower than the PS2.

Putting in dual cored GPU's and Hecto core CPU's will only bump up the price and leave you with a product which drains batteries like its christmas.

Sony you fools a Ferrari isn't really needed to get the groceries but needed for a race track. But a Micra would be ideal for a grocery trip but not very much for a race track.

If i was Sony i would upgrade the RAM and beef up the CPU and probably place a cheaper and smaller GPU in. RAM nowadays is cheaper and the wide use of the 45nm process means the 65nm process chips are cheap.

BTW the PS3 is owning now

# ... — kamanashi 2009-11-15 11:00

I hope you are joking when you say the iPhone has better games than the DS.

# i like the power — reyknow 2009-11-15 11:06

probably because im a hardcore gamer.

wth would nintendo need more power? their games only appeal to casual kiddie gamers.

# he's not — SolidSnake117 2009-11-15 11:21

and i agree with him, iphone games are WAY!!! beter than DS games

i would know, i had a NDS and i traded it in for $40 at gamestop (original model of NDS) and bought a psp

# LOL — KylBlz 2009-11-15 11:27

i want a quad core psp with epic preformance. then when homebrewers crack it, i want to emulate windows 7 with ease and then the makers of Dx64 will giggle with exitement and maybe start on a gamecube emulator!!!

i want to play the origional PSO I&II.

... id better pick up programming again :)

# they would — KylBlz 2009-11-15 11:31

OLED is sonys baby, like on all their TV's, which look pretty good in my opinion. also, i just bought a 16 gig MS pro duo, so i hope they use that card :)

# ... — symbal 2009-11-15 11:42

Question is can anyone step in to hack up this technological monster Godzilla styleee.

# ... — SeRosiS 2009-11-15 11:45

I'd think by the time the PSP2 comes out there will be a better standard than WirelessN.

# I think with these specs............. — KingPepper 2009-11-15 12:01

I think with these specs, we are going to see a new PSP with speed & graphical power to run PS2 games on it, that seems to be a logical step to me, and probably why its going to be so powerful.

If this turns out to be true then i will be the happiest gamer in the world, as my favorite game is on PS2, Gran Turismo 3.

# haha — Earendur 2009-11-15 12:05

now i think that might be a little over the top dont you think? would be amazing yes, but a little unnecessary

# ... — splontot 2009-11-15 12:17

@solidsnake117

oh, you owned a DS? you must be right then.

# Hell yea! — PSPnoObmOd 2009-11-15 12:18

Your right! PS2 emu would be easy if the PSP2 was like this, that would be awesome! Just means that maybe, lots of game development would go into PSP2, and forget about the PSP and PS2. Mind you, these specs are fricken insane! I would trade my PSP in, in no time, if it had 2 sticks and better wi-fi! Which I am sure it will!

# Troll. — lolwut? 2009-11-15 12:42

The DS actually has good games being developed for it. Unlike the psp, because many developers know that the system is the biggest target for piracy. iPhones/iPod touches fall into this category too because they can easily be jailbroken with a soft mod. On top of that the very few good games on iPhones are hard to point out from all the other shovelware crap they have in the apple store.

# Reply to the 2nd grader — Guest 2010-03-14 16:49

Did you just deny the existence of both shovelware and piracy on the DS?

But i got to agree about good games being developed for the DS unlike PSP, I mean seriously Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker? Who needs that shit when another Pokemon game is coming. -_-

# No matter the specs... — rodrigomagno 2009-11-15 12:46

What I really think it all comes down to is devs taking full advantage of the hardware... What good is the PS3 with the low-end games first released?

Take Chains of Olympus for instance, the PSP doesn't have that much of a powerful GPU or a quad core, but Ready at Dawn managed to get the most out of the limited hardware...

With the current levels of piracy, devs might not be willing to break that extra sweat to polish our games...

# lol — RE FREAK 2 2009-11-15 12:49

4 reals. DS is only popular cuz of the little kids who ask their parents to get it for them

# ... — FelisCatusLover 2009-11-15 13:19

Its' true that the iPhone and PSP have a lot of piracy but the DS has quite a lot as well, especially more recently. And as for the iPhone having a lot of shovelware, I do agree, but the iPhone also has quite a few good games, including some mobile RE's and a few others. Certainly not PSP quality stuff but it still beats the DS.

# .... — Silver-Tiger 2009-11-15 13:43

Actually the PSP is pretty much a PS2, just with two shoulder buttons and only one analoque stick.

What Sony really should do is make it a PSPhone already. Throw in HSDPA connection and we can download all our games on the go. Additionally, add a touchscreen. That would be the smartest decision they can make and it would seriously eat in the marketshare of the iPhone.

If we learned anything from the Wii and the DS, is that pure graphical power isn't going to sell well.

The PS3 and the PSP are the most powerful HW on the console and handheld market, and on which palce are they? They're the last. Now if we look at Wii and DS, easily the weakest of the systems, are both leaders in the console and handheld race.

# - — APerson 2009-11-15 14:25

As someone who prefers handhelds over home consoles - this is good to hear! Well maybe. I've never really seen the PSP or even DS as having limitations (except the DS's format size). Upping the graphics? In all honesty why does any handheld game need to look better than what the PSP can already do? At such small screen sizes you can't really put all that much detail in.

The DS could do with a performance increase. I'd love to see what they could do with a new Pokemon or handheld Metroid title with this new chip.

But if they add a second analogue nub and stick some PS2 emulation or ports on the new PSP I'd buy that in an instant.

# lol — splontot 2009-11-15 14:38

by everyone rating this comment down, you've proven my point that most people are graphics whores these days. raggedjimmi gave one of the most sensible posts ive seen on this site and its rated down because it says graphics are good enough as they are. I've really lost a lot of faith in the gaming community.

# hmm... — Bountyhunter53 2009-11-15 14:40

I also do like the power but the cost of it is jaw dropping. I'd rather have the jack of all trades than the expensive super console...

BTW money is a issue nowadays if you noticed the big thing that the media reported about. Something call the "Recession" ;) It hit home to most people, me included.....

# come on — gogeta85 2009-11-15 14:43

That makes no sense what u just said,everyonce and awhile things need a lil boost.Cause when i look at psp's power its very lil,"GT portable" had 4 cars on screen because of limits and a sad career mode.

# better ones too, at that — markdonut 2009-11-15 14:47

Maybe something with a twist pop-up and lock so they collapse for travel but don't have to be a crappy little grippy disc.

I love my psp but sometimes when using it portable, like on a bus or train, holding it and trying to accurately use the analog stick can be a bit difficult

# ... — symbal 2009-11-15 15:11

Giving the Psp2 the extra horsepower would benefit everyone really if Sony had the sense to make it run Ps2 games, i mean developers have massive Ps2 back catalogues so almost zero production costs, and i despise digital only downloads but i would be willing to pay for some of the Ps2 games, and the console could sell by the shed load if cheap enough.

# Be real — LeXiO 2009-11-15 15:13

iPhone comes dead last when it comes to portable handheld gaming devices. Actually, it doesn't come anywhere, since it's a phone and not a gaming device. So DS beats it hands down. But, when you say, iTouch, then you can compare it. And still, the DS will beat the iTouch in terms of games. The DS does have a very good unique game library, so you can't say DS games suck.

BTW, the piracy on the DS is nothing compared to the piracy on the PSP.

And, let's look at it this way, nothing stays the same forever. Things will get more advanced in time. So we can expect a huge leap from current gen handhelds. The only downfall to all this, is the price tags these new devices will come out to be.

# no — splontot 2009-11-15 15:41

i never said anything about the amount of models on screen, im all for upping the power in the machine, i just dont give a ***** about graphics, im perfectly happy with my DS. their gaming systems, i use it to play games, not watching movies or anything, graphics dont mean a thing, id rather play an amazing game with N64 graphics then a great game that pushes the PS3 to its limits. To me, anything above RE4 looks pretty much the same.

# XD — splontot 2009-11-15 15:44

they're gaming machines, i use them to play games

XD

# ... — FelisCatusLover 2009-11-15 16:17

The iPhone is the better version and the version that Apple puts effort into. The iPod touch is just for those without an iPhone. And its neither Sony's, Nintendo's or Apple's fault about piracy. Piracy is the fault of idiot lawmakers that let pirates get away with their crime. Game companies should not be punished for this.

# - — APerson 2009-11-15 16:36

Oh absolutely we could do with a bit more power. But what I'm saying is what is the point of these power hungry HD chips in handhelds when their resolution is fairly low. Upping the DPI and screensize will just negate the point of these systems.

The real boost will be CPU speeds to power better AI, more enemies etc, or memory to store it all without loading.

# I would love that ... — danielakadanny 2009-11-15 17:20

I could just imagine MGS: 3 Snake Eater on the PSP2...damn that would be amazing

# re:power — truk 2009-11-15 17:52

i would argue that more power+more resources for better games. better games+success

# @ silver-tiger — truk 2009-11-15 17:53

check your numbers again.

# they serious bout the psp2!?!?!?!?? — valefour 2009-11-15 18:14

( O_O) WOW...

# I call BS — sony_player 2009-11-15 19:30

Most of that stuff doesn't even make sense, even if you take into consideration the crappy translation job.

Calling it now: FAKE

# About power drain... — Silver_Infinity 2009-11-15 21:26

45nm + less power draw than 65nm process.

After all, CPUs/GPUs manufactured at those process levels require significantly less power than usual. And certainly, PowerVR (Imagine Tech) has done their homework on GPGPUs and portable devices, as the GPGPU variant they intend to use on the PSP2 is very much optimized for handheld devices, such as cellphones, which I'm sure you know NEED to last as long as it can, battery-life speaking.

You can look up to whitepaper of the SGX543 in PowerVR's site. It has pretty impressive stats for a mobile processor, while having highly efficient energy consumption.

# Yeah? — Silver_Infinity 2009-11-15 21:33

Well, at least for the PSP2, look up SGX543 on Google. It exists, has anywhere from 1-16 cores (IIRC), is optimized for HANDHELD devices (like PDAs, cellphones, portable consoles...), and has HIGH energy efficiency?

Now what does that say about the possibility of using it in the next PSP generation?

# @KylBlz, Nope — MechaGuy 2009-11-15 22:28

chances are they'll switch to MS micros in the near future.

# lol — MechaGuy 2009-11-15 22:31

more like PS1.5

# .... — Silver-Tiger 2009-11-16 02:31

You should read that:

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/games/archives/playstation/2005/02/psp_officially_as_powerful_as_ps2.html

Basically the PS2 IS more powerful than the PSP, however the PS2 is running at a much bigger resolution (2.3 to be exact), while the PSP has a smaller screen which makes the difference in the resolution nearly unnoticable.

# ^ — sony_player 2009-11-16 08:23

I'm not doubting that it exists, I'm questioning the credibility of the source. The entire article was very vague, and I just find it hard to believe that sony would let anything like that get out this far away from the release. Nothing in that article was convincing for me.

# Yeah the PS3 is pwning now. — Elric 2009-11-16 08:27

And that is the reason Sony's strategy tends to work, they are long term thinkers. I LOVE this about them. I bought my PSP phat on day one in the US and still use it to this day.

It has outlived three cell phones models, several generations of iPods, two versions of the DS, and it I still use it everyday. I'm still amazed by what it can do... it's an incredibly powerful device.

I mean a gizmo that still feels best in class going into it's fifth year? That's freaking unheard of.

It's also the reason I'm not going to like a retarded soon to be ripped off Apple customer when I'm standing in line for a day one PSP2.

It's also the reason the PS3 will end up being the number one current gen console when all is said and done.

# Looks like a beast, for sure... — Elric 2009-11-16 08:34

I agree with Silver Tiger. PSP2 sounds like a PSP2.5 spec-wise.

With a second analog stick, though, it would be awesome if we could start seeing some "PS2 Classics" for it right at release. It should have enough power to do a software emulation for it ala POPS on PSP.

I think Sony has a potential goldmine with the PS2 library. The God War Collection HD Remix on the PS3 is going to prove that.

I'd love to be able to take my PS2 games and load them on the go like I do the PS1 games with the current gen PSP (along with HD versions on PS3).

# ... — Silver-Tiger 2009-11-16 08:58

I doubt you need a higher standard than 802.11n.

WLAN-N has an average speed of 50 to 144 mbits. If this still isn't enough for you, you cannot be helped.

# Well... — Silver_Infinity 2009-11-16 10:50

These are rumors and 'insider information'. For obvious reasons, none of them can be verified 100%, and one will have to trust the "reliable source's" word for it. . After all, if there wasn't any risk in revealing this information, the source would be named.

So in place of basing belief on solid evidence, we should play it by logic, educated guesses and plain common sense:

- The next-gen for handhelds is definitely coming soon. The past few iterations were simply revisions/modifications of existing products (PSPGo, 3000, DS Lite, DSi), so a new gen should already be in the works, as the PSP and the DS have reached their 5-6th year.

- Next Gen means better in many or all respects: power consumption, more raw power and/or efficient processing techniques, etc. That being said, if the products are set to come out in the next 1-2 years, it would make sense to use technology that already exists today. Because if you were to make your own, it would add a few more years to develop.

- In that respect, Imagine Tech (iPhone) and NVidia (Zune HD) are quite capable of delivering high-performance for low power with their respective products. One would have to be pretty silly not to take advantage of them.

And so on.

The information, while being from 'anonymous sources', sounds very viable from many, if not all standpoints. I see the future developments happening to be exactly as they say or at least, be very similar.

# - — APerson 2009-11-16 11:23

But handhelds last a lot longer than consoles. The GB had a 15 year lifespan after all, the GBA wasn't too long in the market. Besides Nintendo makes enough now so they can sing to their own tune.

I don't think we'll see a DS successor until 2012, 2013. After all the DSi IS a hardware boost over the DS Lite, they can carry on with that for a while.

# Nah — symbal 2009-11-16 14:27

Every console before the Nds was basically the same, always standard controls and improved graphics, but now people expect new features like touchscreen, motion controls etc every year so they have no choice but to update the hardware much more often now.

# @Elric — nate443556 2009-11-16 17:24

You're right, Sony does have the strategy of putting out products that keep up the pace with other comparable products throughout the years, but isn't that kind of against what a money sucking corporation should do in its best interests? Apple and Microsoft are both seen as better with their consumers and they pump out bull crap every few months. Just new iterations of the same crap. But still people buy it, and they get way better sales. Apple does one tiny thing to an ipod, ships it out, and people buy a whole new one for that tiny improvement, just to have the latest and greatest. And that, IMO, is the best strategy as a corporation (who's goal is to make money; NOT to satisfy a consumer).

# erm — Mr Toasty 2009-11-16 18:03

To say a standard is "good enough" is pretty foolish when dealing with technology. There will always be improvements. In fact, wireless N is already outdated by the new Draft N, which has been put into some consumer laptops being sold at places like best buy for a few months now.

# @raggedjimmi — Souljaboy56 2009-11-16 19:52

Well nintendo did comfirm the DSi LL, after only half a year of the DSi release. Plus, graphics are what make the DS suck ( to people who actually take handheld gaming seriously ). browsing the internet sucks, because the pictures are just f*cked up and you cant visit any sites that use a lot of memory. so we may see another DS successor soon, my estimate is around Q3 or early Q4 of 2010. But it might just be another DSi Remake. More memory, the nVidia Tegra GPU, and maybe even a few software changes too. fake or real ( i vote fake for now ), nintendo needs to get with the f*cking program and make and HD console already. or at least a better quality one. The Wii can deliver Enhanced definition ib 480p, but not HD on 1080i. its like Nintendo is afraid of HD or something..

# Err... — Silver_Infinity 2009-11-17 00:00

@raggedjimmi

That's a misconception. Why do you think companies like AMD, Intel, ATI, and Nvidia release products either concurrently or closely to the release of their competitors, even if they were 'winning' in the generation? Like, why would ATI release the X series when NVidia releases GF6 when ATI clearly won the 9000vsFX war? Companies have to keep up with the 'new' vibe of their competitor if they wish to stay in business.

The GB had a long lifespan due to lack of technology. When the GBC came, it didn't last that long until the GBA came and replaced it. The GBA was then partially survived by the GBA SP, primarily due to problems with the first generation.

What you also miss is that Nintendo had other projects even before the GBA and GBC, like the Virtual Boy. Unfortunately, that flopped badly, so the lifespan of the GB was extended. The gap between GB and VB was only 5 years, and the GB and GBC 8 years. The the gap between the GBA line and the DS is only 4 years.

No electronics company would be dumb enough to rely on a technology for 15 years. 6 years is already pushing it, actually...normally the life cycle of a device would be 5 years at best. Afterwards, a hardware redesign or a new design must be made.

2011 would mark the 7th year of the DS line, well beyond the average lifespan. And with their competitors (read: Sony) preparing to make a new handheld, they'd be pretty silly not to step up to the challenge.

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Digital Foundry: Nintendo-nVidia deal is true, PSP2 is a "technological monster"

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