Quick Jump Daily Digest

Thank you for your interest in the Quick Jump Daily Digest. Get notified of all new content on QJ in our free Daily Digest. To subscribe, enter your email address below and click the subscribe button.

Cancel and Return to page

Zeschuck: JRPGs lack evolution, progression

Posted Dec 20, 2009 at 2:00PM EST by Karl B.

Listed in: PSP, PS3, Wii, MMORPG, Nintendo DS, Xbox 360, PC Gaming Tags: BioWare, games for windows, greg zeschuck, jrpg

ff13

"Innovation" is one of those buzzwords we hear every now and then in the games industry. Which games or consoles innovated the most? Which ones didn't? According to BioWare co-founder Greg Zeschuck, JRPGs as a whole have been guilty of being stagnant for the past few years.

"The fall of the JRPG in large part is due to a lack of evolution, a lack of progression," Zeschuk told Destructoid in a recent interview. "They kept delivering the same thing over and over. They make the dressing better, they look prettier, but it's still the same experience.

While he acknowledges that there are definitely exceptions -- Demon's Souls is mentioned as one -- Zeschuck believes that the role-playing in JRPGs have fallen behind that offered by their Western counterparts.

"We have big debates on whether GTA is an RPG, for example," he said. "It's got all the elements, it just doesn't have the numbers. And what gamers here want is that higher depth, that higher integration of features...Mass Effect 2 is in some ways a continuation of that evolution."

Well, JRPG fans, what say you?

Via [Destructoid]

0% of voters think this story ROCKS!

Vote Now!

(0)

(2)

I really dont think Bioware has any room to talk. Their attempts at 'innovation' tend to suck, and everything else is just a rehash or Morrowind with better graphics. (Which in itself is just a much prettier though machanically near identical daggerfall.)

Bioware is about as innovative as a dead dog. Sure, you can smoosh it about and make it look different, but all the parts are still the same. (And not aging terribly well in the sun.)

# i agree to point — Luciddreamin92 2009-12-20 16:23

Some jrpg's jus dont have that new feel, Mass Affect has upgrades, lvl's, attachements on armor/weapons/grnades, magic force power, and a GoW cover style. Most jrpg's just have lvl's, weapons, magic, and thats it.

Unless its a game like MHU then thats a better jrpg game

# I Agree — jjcobra 2009-12-20 16:51

Sure, he's got a major point. Honestly look at the Dragon Quest Series, and almost every JRPG out there. It's got the same character types, and many share a similar story.

But he did forget one thing that is important to RPG fans, and that is previously said story. The story of a game is highly important to someone that's willing to plunk down 30-infinity hours on a single game. We aren't there for the joy of boring grinding, we're there to see what happens next.

Hell, I've got PS1 rpgs I still need to finish, and I've had them since day one. That's a good 12 or 13 years of play time on a 60 dollar investment. As opposed to many newer games where I'm lucky to get 20 hours for the same money.

# Yeah so? — Navani 2009-12-20 19:02

It works.. It's really up to the individual, but I mean Mass Effect bored me, I didn't enjoy the gameplay, and I really was a little upset by it. JRPGs almost always keep my interest (although I do tend to play the popular ones) .. On that note.. Give me a Pokemon MMORPG!!

# ... — Typhon00 2009-12-20 21:23

You idiot. Bioware did not create or help to create any Elder Scrolls game. They are the creators of games including Mass Effect, KotOR, and NN.

Morrowind and the like were made by Bethesda, and don't even start to say that Bethesda lacks innovation, i.e. Fallout 3.

# @ Teivin — Master Chef 2009-12-20 23:26

lol cry moar you weeaboo. Not only did Bioware not have anything to do with the Elder Scrolls series, but they made some of the best RPGs of all time. Don't try to say Neverminter Nights, KOTOR, and Jade Empire were not innovative in any way.

Unless you meant Bethesda, in which case you're still an idiot. Morrowind identical to Daggerfall in every way except looks? Did you even play both games? lol. And Fallout 3 and Oblivion are nothing like Morrowind or Daggerfall. Don't try to say none of those were innovative either

The only thing that's somewhat generic in western RPGs is the story, it's almost always the same high-fantasy, king is in trouble and the land is being invaded by monsters stuff that Tolkien came up with 80 years ago. The gameplay tho is leagues ahead of JRPGs, and is always changing. JRPGs still feel the same as they did 15 years ago, same characters, same ruleset, same overall story.

# @ QJ — Master Chef 2009-12-20 23:28

I see your latest attempt at a decent comment system is also broken. I really enjoy not being able to make paragraphs, thanks. Makes my whole comment look like a stupid jumbled mess, when I spaced it out perfectly.

# This is stupid — Shazman1984 2009-12-21 07:12

There's nothing wrong with JRPGs. You either like them or you don't. If you want to bash a genre that lacks evolution, go bash the FPS's.

# Stupid comment — Nineball 2009-12-21 08:27

@Shazman1984

So, in other words, they can bash any genre for being unoriginal as long as its not the one you like. You can use the same cop-out of an argument for FPSes as well. If you don't like them, don't play them.

# hmmm no — CSP 2009-12-21 09:32

The gameplay tho is leagues ahead of JRPGs, and is always changing. JRPGs still feel the same as they did 15 years ago, same characters, same ruleset, same overall story.

I am sorry but have YOU played any JRPGs? From Xenosaga to the SMT and its countless spinoff series to action rpgs like the world ends with you, to strategy RPGs from front mission to final fantasy tactics and disgaea, the JRPGs are MUCH more diversified than the western ones and correct me if I am wrong but they sell much much better than their US counterparts in Japan.

You know what the problem is? The US market has become too damn mainstream and don't care about Atlus diamonds (each game has its share of problems but playing Nochturne till the end is immensly satisfying) don't care about hybrids (ie rune factory) and only want nice graphics (that puts all DS games out the window) and SEX. That's right one of the biggest innovations Bioware made was to put sex in their RPGs. Well done, you've moved the entire genre forward. Gone were the days of Baldur's Gate and Morrowind, now we get boobs, a deceptive advanced charater interraction and a main quest that is over in less than 20H.

I am sorry that you are not niche enough and prefer casual games. I have been playing baroque and even though I want to throw stuff around, it is a much more rewarding experience than any other US RPG I have played recently.

There will be a time where people will see the cliches in US games and will begin to act accordingly. Until then enjoy your deception.

# @CSP — Lazyboy256 2009-12-21 09:53

About sex...many a JRPG features women clothed in rather reavealing clothes that probably wouldn't do so well for combat. Fran from FF12 and Myuria from SO4 come to immediate mind...western RPGs aren't the only shows about boobs it seems

# ... — CSP 2009-12-21 13:06

ehm I am sorry the innovation that Bioware made was sexual intercourse on a game. Until now we had sexual innuendo and even if FF8 is a love story (FFX is much MUCH more than that) and the Japanese tend to be very provocative when it comes to female clothing sometimes (with a significant portion of anime being able to justify that) they kept sex away from games and there is a reason for that. DECENCY.

Shin Megami Tensei Strange Journey (another sub standard RPG with little innovation and a sub standard plot - idiots) got an M rating...NOT BECAUSE OF SEX.

# good points — ShootingStars 2009-12-21 19:49

you made some good points there!

i just wanted to say something to bashers.

who the #$#%#% cares about evolution or progression? if its a game I will like I will buy and play it. why does a game have to evolve anyways? is it a pokemon? =.=

I like FF8 and FFX because it had romance, and that is why I played it

North American RPGs is just full of violence and sex

# lol @ CSP — Master Chef 2009-12-21 21:23

Bioware's only innovation in the RPG genre was in-game sex? What the hell are you smoking? There is no sex in KOTOR, Jade Empire, and NN. Are you going to be like Teivin and say those games were not innovative at all? And all the main quests in Bio games take less than 20 hours? Funny, I've gotten at least 50 out of all of them. 80 out of Dragon Age

Now I'm convinced the people ragging on West RPGs don't even play them, so have no room to talk.

And I've actually played many of the JRPGs you mentioned. I like how you assume because I like Morrowind and other Wst RPGs I must only like casual games lol. Morrowind isn't even a casual game to begin with, it's pretty difficult and didn't really sell well at all when it came out. Also Morrowind WAS NOT MADE BY BIOWARE YOU RETARD

# NN — Guest 2010-02-23 21:31

I'm sorry but NN is a nerd magic the gathering pussy bitch game. it's bad and you should feel bad.

All your other arguments are good though.

# ... — CSP 2009-12-22 03:21

And I've actually played many of the JRPGs you mentioned. I like how you assume because I like Morrowind and other Wst RPGs I must only like casual games lol.

Yes a slip of the tongue, was thinking of planescape, one of the best western RPGs I have played ever and besides, I was talking about western RPGs in general STOP DEFENDING BIOWARE YOU IDIOT.

NWN is never going to reach the heights of Baldur's Gate and as for KOTOR they made a good Star Wars RPG. Nothing really groundbreaking and having played this I can't see why there was all this hype. Never bothered with dragon age and just because you love those games does not mean I am stupid. From Wikipedia on Jade Empire "Like the original version, the Special Edition has also been criticized for being too short and for having rather easy battles using a simplistic battle system"

I am sure you have never played any megami tensei games so go away dude.

# Agreed! — Marmarflam 2009-12-22 18:43

but the only thing bethesda lacks is innovation in their character models and animations, which are always the weak point in the graphics department. :(

# altough i see your point — Marmarflam 2009-12-22 18:51

i do not agree,

i too have been playing all those rpgs you name, and dare to call myself an rpg fan.

Still, there seems to be something missing these days that the old rpgs had. creativity and warmth.

There are a lot of rpgs out that impress me graphics and design wise, music tends to be great too.

But there is no progress in rpg development. Rpgs are still SLOW as hell.

attacking animation taking 4 seconds not counting loading or menu selection.

This bores me.

if you want to look at an RPG that innovative, look at valkyrie profile, 1 and 2.

2 had some new things, but the system is less complicated than the first installment. Why? people don't like complicated shit, they want easy stuff, easy to understand, easy to use.

ff13 will change this a bit, for it seems to have a pretty fast battle system, but it's still a mainstream rpg.

the future is in action/rpg hybrids for me. they have tempo and tend to be a bit more innovative.

# ... — CSP 2009-12-22 19:28

"attacking animation taking 4 seconds not counting loading or menu selection. This bores me."

ehm...I guess it does because there are action RPGs around but really just google the word and you will find a LEGION of Japanese action RPGs to get your hands on with. Just because they are not hyped and are not of high production values, does not mean they do not exist. I played over 300H on two One Piece games (action adventure with RPG elements) and they are anime licensed games for crying out loud (possibly the best anime licensed games but anyway). The only thing I do agree is that stuff like Last Remnant, Infinite Undiscovery (NONE developed internally by S-E) Star Ocean (the aforementioned games comprise the majiroty of HD JRPGs so yeah they have not made many next gen games) are not innovative enough because they tried to make the westerners buy them. I say they need to focus on their own market and make JAPANESE games instead of trying to figure out why western RPGs sell and copy them. Either they should make a US division making games for the US or just bring what they make over UNTOUCHED (including of course the Japanese audio since I am tired of reading about how awful the VA is - and if you don't do it WE WILL) As for the rest go play Mother 3 before stating anything about JRPGs. It is far the killer app but if you think this game is similar to FF and DQ then you are retarded.

# Bioware is one to talk — gordunk 2009-12-22 19:32

Hey, Bioware, when are you gonna update the conversation system that you've been using since KotoR? You know, the one that was cool 5 years ago, but now is a laughable excuse for a morality system? The one that you cling to so much that you even put it in the Sonic RPG for DS? Yeah, update that before you start talking about your game specifically(Ma ss Effect 2) is more innovative than a JRPG.

# bioware shouldn't talk — Guest 2010-03-27 12:15

bioware has been exploiting the same system since KOTOR they haveb't evolved much either the only best game on their list is mass effect and unfortunately the 2nd mass effect was weaker than the first it's hard to make mass effect 3 better than the other 2 and it gets weaker because it's the same type of game. and i don't know about lacking in evolution at least jrpgs are putting in different twists not just graphics. this guy mentions demon souls but i bet he never played the tales series which is a mix of fighting game and rpg.there's evolution right there and the tales series is one of my favorites for this unique playstyle.theres strategy rpgs also which take a good amount of time but that's the best thing about jrpgs the challenges and accomplishments .bioware's games don't feellike much of an adventure or hard struggle just convesation trees and mostly bland battle system(except mass effect)either way i think wrpgs aren't evolving much at least not as fast as jrpgs and with the recession i don't think anyone wants to take any risks anyway but i see there's still evoulution even more so than jrpgs. i forget to mention how many developers have wrpgs to jrpgs while there's many in the jrpg branch they mostly do bring out some good jrpgs for all consoles about 10-20 a yearconsidering overall companies not including language but what about the wrpg developers only 3-5 a
year but among them at least 1-2 are good while with jrpg at least 4-7 are good and sometimes more than that so i don't really see to much problems with evoultion and these guy are taking their time. so to say bioware shouldn't get to
cocky as they aren't that great and i prefer blizzard games anyway diablo 3 hurry and bring it out.

Refresh comments list

Add comment

JComments

HOT GAMING NEWS | LATEST GAMING SEARCHES | FORUMS

QUICK JUMP DAILY DIGEST

Welcome to QJ.Net!

If you want your comments to go live without waiting for moderation, you need to be logged in. Being logged in has its benefits:

Logged in members do not wait for their comments to be approved.
Logged in members can create Profiles to be seen by other users.

So why wait? Create an account or login now! It's easy, quick, and free.

To get started, use the LOGIN boxes, or the REGISTER link below!

Want to learn more about the team who brings you the QJ news?

Read about them now!

HOT FLASH GAMES

QJ.NET Categories
• Apple • E3 • Featured Articles • Gadgets • Games for Windows • iPad • iPhone • MMORPG • Mobile • News • Nintendo 3DS • Nintendo DS • Opinions & Analysis	• Photography • PlayStation 3 • PoV • PS Vita • PSP • Rumors • Science • Site News • Tabula Rasa • Wii • Wii U • World of Warcraft • Xbox 360

Sitemap

Newest Downloads

05/22/2012 - 05/28/2012

RGLoader 0v290 Beta	05/27/2012
WiiMod 3.2	05/27/2012
WiiMC v1.2.7	05/25/2012
True Blue Firmeware v2.7	05/24/2012
3DS Video Converter v2.3	05/24/2012
Mobile Assault 1.8.2	05/24/2012
PSP Tools Alpha 0.1	05/22/2012
Newton War	05/22/2012
DaedalusX64 r766	05/22/2012
PSPMarble	05/22/2012
The Undead 4 - Nazi Zombies	05/21/2012
3DSExplorer v1.2.1	05/21/2012
J-Runner v0.2 Beta 275	05/19/2012
Priiloader 0.8 Beta 3	05/19/2012
Quake Rev PAK release 4	05/19/2012

Most Comments this Month
Sound Off: On Game Expirat..	(57)
EA Blames iOS Rock Band Ex..	(28)
Say Goodbye to the Xbox 36..	(27)
Flash0 Contents Of Vita's..	(27)
Sony Had a Rough Year; Vit..	(26)
PlayStation 3: Now Featuri..	(22)
Sound Off: Toughest Game C..	(20)
Apparently You Can Pre-Ord..	(19)
Love It or Hate It, It's A..	(16)
Pre-Order Generic Shooter..	(15)
You've Been Up in Arms Abo..	(15)
Get Off Xbox Live, You Ped..	(14)
This is Next Gen?	(14)
Metal Gear Solid For Vita..	(14)
PoV: Paid MMOs are Dead	(14)
PoV: This Collectors Editi..	(14)
Stop Your Whining, Start C..	(13)
PoV: You Are Wrong about C..	(13)
Does Microsoft Ever Have a..	(12)
Operation Raccoon City Pro..	(12)
Diablo III Getting Mauled..	(12)
Pokemon Liquid Crystal! K..	(12)
OK, So Maybe Microsoft Can..	(12)
Blizzard is Really Sorry a..	(11)
Update: EA Drops Free BF3..	(11)

Top Jumps this Month
Naruto Shippuden: Ul..	(159)
neur0n Knocks Out An..	(96)
Pokemon Liquid Cryst..	(86)
Bust Out Your PSP Fo..	(86)
PSP homebrew - LameC..	(63)
PSP Comics Reader v2..	(50)
Wii homebrew - WAD M..	(49)
PSP Homebrew: 6.xx P..	(42)
PSP Homebrew - PSPDi..	(40)
Hellcat Working On R..	(39)
PSP homebrew - DSonP..	(38)
neur0n Gives You Mor..	(36)
PSP GBA v1.2: Gamebo..	(33)
Sound Off: On Game E..	(32)
Latest Left 4 Dead 2..	(30)
GTA IV patch 1.0.6.0..	(29)
Download full Sid Me..	(28)
Another CFW Goodie F..	(28)
Sound Off: Should Ap..	(27)
Soywiz Releases PSP..	(26)
Homebrew - PSP/PS3 P..	(23)
Metal Gear Solid For..	(20)
PSP homebrew - Mario..	(20)
DS homebrew game - S..	(20)
Brian Lara Internati..	(20)

HOT GAMING NEWS TOPICS

Quick Jump Daily Digest

Zeschuck: JRPGs lack evolution, progression

Related Stories:

Comments

Add comment

Newest Downloads