Michael Bay: Microsoft wants HD DVD and Blu-ray to fail |
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Movie director Michael Bay, known for the recent successes of The Transformers and Bad Boys II, has been very vocal when it comes to the on-going format war between HD DVD and Blu-ray. His latest "theory" about this is nothing short of controversial.
Prior to all these, Bay said that he will no longer be directing the sequel to The Transformers after rumors circulated that Microsoft is giving away cash incentives just to keep the release of the film on HD DVD.
However, the director suddenly changed his mind about the matter and mentioned that he will pursue The Transformers 2 after "hearing" Paramount Pictures side of the matter. But Michael Bay is claiming now that all of these are just the tip of the iceberg.
According to him, Microsoft is not really for the HD DVD format. Bay reasoned that what big MS really wants is for the market to shift to digital download and the current format war is nothing but a diversion to create confusion among consumers. Bay further explained:
What you don't understand is corporate politics. Microsoft wants both formats to fail so they can be heroes and make the world move to digital downloads. That is the dirty secret no one is talking about.
That is why Microsoft is handing out US$ 100 million dollar checks to studios just embrace the HD DVD and not the leading, and superior Blu Ray. They want confusion in the market until they perfect the digital downloads. Time will tell and you will see the truth.
This statement, take note, is a double-edged sword. First, the accusations will really create a big impact to Microsoft and both formats if proven to be true. Also, Bay admitted that Blu-ray is currently leading and is superior to HD DVD.
Keep checking back here at QJ.NET for the latest on this issue!
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Comments [refresh]
Your average consumer does not have a sufficient internet connection to download tens of gigabites of content whenever they feel like watching a movie..
Sorry Michael.. you're a quack
keith k you should had read the full article before posting that is exactly what he means when he said MS wan both formats to fail because they really wan a monopoly on the video digital distributions
"That is why Microsoft is handing out US$ 100 million dollar checks to studios just embrace the HD DVD"
Er no, that was the HD-DVD consortium.
HD-DVD is Toshiba's format and Toshiba head the consortium which includes Sanyo, NEC, Memory Tech, Intel, Microsoft, and others (including some movie studios).
He singles out Microsoft because either;
a) He's uninformed and thinks MS are in control of HD-DVD
or b) Because it's fashionable to bash MS
or c) All of the above ;)
Besides, VC-1 is MS's codec, it is used for all HD-DVD movies, and is now being used for Blu-ray movies to achieve the best quality;
http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/09/07/blu-ray-movies-in-vc-1-up-to-par-with-hd-dvd/
So MS are making money on every HD-DVD movie sold and every Blu-ray movie sold which uses VC-1.
Seems to me MS are in a win-win situation with HD-DVD and Blu-ray, so why would they want both formats to fail?
Michael Bay is just talking nonsense. :|
"or b) Because it's fashionable to bash MS "
You have to be kidding? Last time I checked it was the year of Sony bashing. Also, MS is crap, it's got nothing to do with fashion.
You should take a big breath and be quite for some time now please!!!
Along comes Yaz and says that Bay a world class famous producer and director is talking nonsense
...hmmm
Common man give as a break! Last time I checked I haven%u2019t seen your name in any major movie release.. hell, I haven%u2019t seen your name in any release what so ever! So you come here in Qj and give as your bull and expect as to say hmmm Yaz is right and Bay is not... no that is not the case.
It just shows that you are a hardcore MS fanboy who will do anything to defend them without ever realising why he is even doing it for or what do you get in return except guys like me making fun of you ...you are a blind one.. nothing more nothing less sorry mate.
%u2018%u2019He's uninformed and thinks MS are in control of HD-DVD%u2019%u2019
And you know more than he does?
%u2018%u2019Because it's fashionable to bash MS%u2019%u2019
So what ? If it is true then why not? Or is it better that we let them do whatever they want and bend our rears while we are at it? (sorry about the rear thing :) )
When a man of Bay%u2019s calibre would come out in public and say stuff like this especially regarding the all mighty MS, there are only two explanations, 1) He is *****ing hallucinating or he is crazy or he was paid to do so but in the same time doesn%u2019t care if he gets rejected or fired due to these statements...2) He is in the business for god knows how long...he must know something it just so happens to be the cover up MS is pushing which sounds very familiar to me when it is about MS the king of deception! If he doesn%u2019t know everything about his movie (transformers)t hen who does? You??? This man risked a lot by saying this, he must have some kind of knowledge which allows him to do so. He is fed up with MS and their money buy outs that%u2019s simple to comprehend unless you are a blind fanboy.
Anyway, I was not in my intensions to talk down to you I don%u2019t do that but you really need to re-think about what you%u2019re saying and know that I wont reply to you unless I see that you think for your self and not MS.
In the end it is up to the consumer who wins. Vote with your wallet and don't let these stupid politics tell you what to do. I don't really care who wins but I wish it would be over. Both are equal quality and yes blueray is bigger but hddvd is cheaper and is JUST AS GOOD QUALITY. Blueray is not higher quality please get that into your heads fanboys. Anyways that is just a pet peeve of mine.
thats the reason the exclusivity thing happened - to drag the format war a bit longer meaning more time for the REMAINING ppl to go broadband.
This is f*cking crazy. Sure the ipod and its music download store is popular(among young and TECH knowledged), but hell no is it f*cking mainstream as buying DVDs. Can any1 imagen their parents being capable of doin such things?
Whoever is responsible 4 this idea, MS, Toshiba or whoever.....they need to think of ways making this idea easy to use, perhaps selling cheap HDD sets that operate directly thru the net(NOT WINDOWS) and make it as seemless as actually buying dvds. obviously, broadband is gna have unlimited downld and increased speed(fibre opt) in the future as the way they see it
microsoft just pay productions to stay with HD DVD because the ps3 is bluray obvious and he want that format die or at least that last sooo many years that make that the people don't buy a PS3 just for the bluray player and make more user base with PS3s.
If I don't explain well is because I'm sleepy, dizzy and sick... oh... and because I only speak spanish...
i've been saying both formats will fail from the beginning. The only clear solution is digital. It's cheaper, and more efficent. With storage becoming more and more inexpensive it is the only real winner. That's why u see microsoft doing so much with the XBL Marketplace.
This is NOT to say that microsoft is behind this as some sort of George Montgomery Burns supervillian, but they will be the clear winner.
Well, I guess that that is also part of their agenda.
But as soon as Sony's Blu-ray becomes the Next-gen format and MS sees how profitable it can be (and how wrong they were), they'll try and monopolize on that aswell.
Same happened with the Videogames industry. They saw how well Sony was doing and then tried to buy out Nintendo, that didn't work out for them so they just created their own Console.
And bla die bla die bla... 'Bout time HD-DVD vanished and this entire format war be over.. Ah well..
I have read about this on other Movie review sites, with the same accusations regarding Microsoft, long before Michael Bay ever came up with these allegations.
I tend to agree, as it does seem to fit in with Microsoft's overall business strategy. It also seems to fit in with their usual business tactics of lie,cheat,steal ,bribe, threaten, etc. About this last, I'm not kidding - any MS fan who wants to argue - go read up about the Browser wars and HOW MS won them, about the SCO-Linux lawsuit and how MS financed another company to sue a Linux provider to slow down (or as they hoped, stop) the spread of Linux. As regards unethical business tactics, Microsoft is second only to Big Pharmaceutical, Oil and Defense Companies (and of course, the US government, specifically, the current administration :) ).
"You should take a big breath and be quite for some time now please!!!"
No, instead you should learn how to discuss an issue like an adult instead of telling people to be quiet just because you disagree with them.
It is possible to talk about this without the patronising tone you showed in that post!
"Last time I checked I haven%u2019t seen your name in any major movie release.."
Last time I checked, I hadn't question Michael Bay on his skills as a director (I like some of his films), I questioned his conspiracy theories (and that is ALL they are, unless someone has proof).
What next, I challenge a scientist who believes the moon landings were fake and you'll come in telling me I'm not an Astronaut so I shouldn't question his? LOL! ;)
"Anyway, I was not in my intensions to talk down to you..."
Oh I think that WAS you intention.
However, please don't look for the easy way out with fanboy accusations or the idea that 'we're not worthy' to question Michael Ball.
If you disagree with me, that's perfectly fine, but do offer an intelligent challenge to the points I've raised instead of taking the easy way out by effectively saying "Meh, you're a fanboy Yaz so I'm not talking to you unless you change".
So, do you think you can manage that? (Oops, I hope I'm not being patronising now :)).
I wonder if Mike Bay is just pissed that his Transformers movie only came in HD DVD, and he only has a Bluray player at home....
'his' instead of 'him', 'you' instead of 'your' etc.
(Shame there's no edit facility here)
Keith is right! Less then 5% (as of last year) of the country has the means to "productively" download/stream movies at a whim. Let alone HD content.
This entire article is absurd.
"Microsoft wants both formats to fail so they can be heroes and make the world move to digital downloads. That is the dirty secret no one is talking about. "
1. MS would NOT be the hero. Digital download of video content has been going on for a LONG TIME. MS would be nothing more then another drop in the bucket.
2. The average internet user (excluding business) is still on dial up! Every wonder why you still see TONS of dial up commercials?
3. How the HELL is a download service EVER going to compete with 1920X1080p content? Uncompressed 7.1 audio? Not any time soon! Not until they dig up my street and plant fiber! Not to mention the other side having to dish out insane bandwidth to it's customers.
@Yaz,
He singles out MS because MS has their OWN deals with their OWN HD-DVD drive. In addition to all other normal HD-DVD deals.
Also, MS absolutely DOES NOT earn any royalties on VC-1. Not directly and not entitled:
"Although widely considered to be Microsoft's product, there are actually 15 companies in the VC-1 patent pool (as of August 17, 2006)."
"VC-1 is open to implementation by anyone, although implementers are hypothetically required to pay licensing fees to the MPEG LA, LLC licensing body or directly to its members"
OPEN IMPLEMENTATION.....HYPOTHETICALLY
"@Yaz, He singles out MS because MS has their OWN deals with their OWN HD-DVD drive. In addition to all other normal HD-DVD deals."
Fair enough, but that doesn't change the fact that his comments are unsubstantiated accusations and assumptions.
"Also, MS absolutely DOES NOT earn any royalties on VC-1. Not directly and not entitled:"
Thanks for that, I did some further checks and I believe you're correct (hence I've learned something today). :)
Makes sense think about why would MS support HD-DVD? its inferior to Blu-ray right i mean blu-ray holds 50GB. think about it if Blu-ray wins the war everyone will be switching to Blu-ray a sony product so they would not be making nearly as much money as they would if HD-DVD wins
as much as i like the xbox.....id hate to see it as the mainstream media player that sits below every1s master tv. mb next gen theyll come up with a more sophisticated console. its a toy.
as for others
neither pc media center and ps3 hav a fully and sophisticated os that makes it fit enough to replace the current trend of hardcopies IMO.
iphone and that nifty MS surface show potential however when it comes to HCI.
This is a little off topic but im trying to get an iPod for christmas and wanna know if you NEED iTunes, or can I just drag and drop my music like I do on my PSP?
Anyways (back on topic) this is kind of stupid if they actually want to make all things digital. Things are fine the way they are now. Once I get my HDTV (full HD i might add =P) I'll be able to buy some blu-ray's.
Sony already sent me Casino royal on blu-ray in the mail =]. People are already used to all these disks, but it gets annoying having to put your credit card info into a machine (with people that actually have decent internet) and wait for downloads. I'll stay old fasion with my disks lol.
As a paid Microsoft online forum contributor, I have to disagree! No seriously, I think you're too much into conspiracy theories.
Downloading HD movies suck, they're not portable, take forever, and require hard disc storage. I know MS is for the idea, but it's not going to take off for years if at all. I've never seen the appeal of downloading a movie or TV show over XBOX live either.
I don't think Michael Bay's arguments really prove anything other than MS is backing HD-DVD like they were all along. Nothing else has changed. Blu ray is superior but only in storage space, blu ray sells more discs, the studios are almost split equally for exclusive movies, this format war sucks for everyone, etc.
Its funny how MS tries not to be obvious while being bovious at the same time. Its not surprising Money makes the world go round and throwing away your money to gain more stuff is right up there.
Hey thinker do you have a PS3, if so what your PSN.
what microsoft needs is that all downloading movies from the 360 can be tranfered to the Zune... that will be a plus and make the zune sales better.
And the downloads don't take too long... thats what I like about xbox live... the speed
A good conspiracy theory is good for gossip anyway, right? :)
Anyway, you can't argue that a lot of Microsoft's business victories have had their roots in unethical business practices. A little bit of research and digging ought to clear that up for you man.
"I don't think Michael Bay's arguments really prove anything other than MS is backing HD-DVD like they were all along."
-> MCS, you are mixing up Microsoft's possible actions with their alleged motives. Sure, they are providing backing, but to what end, that is the question.
"Blu ray is superior but only in storage space"
-> What about HD-DVD's preferred codec VC-1 (pushed by Microsoft) which is nowhere as good as the H.264 one used by Blu-ray? Also, as far as I know, the authoring language used by HD-DVD, HDi, uses a basic Windows PC-type configuration, while Blu-ray's BD-j is Sun Java based.
"Downloading HD movies suck, they're not portable, take forever, and require hard disc storage"
-> On that, we are both on the same page. Downloading sucks. XBox downloads seem faster, but if you notice, most of them are in the 5-7 GB range, which puts them at less than a DVD. Also, I prefer having a hard copy of a movie/show/song as well, hence my preference for Blu-ray or DVD. Also, I do agree, the format war sucks for everyone.
Working now, so have to run. Talk to you later.
It is in his own best personal interests to promote HDDUD, why isn't he?
Because Bluray is the product he truely believes in, Tranformers would have been so much better on Bluray.
He's not the only director that support Bluray either. Spielberg is a big fan.
"I know what the final product should look like - Blu Ray suits my films better"
"What about HD-DVD's preferred codec VC-1 (pushed by Microsoft) which is nowhere as good as the H.264 one used by Blu-ray?"
You do know that BR also uses VC-1 right? The problem is when BR was first released only single layered disc where available. No room for VC-1 when you include HD audio. Now there's room and it's being used.
"uses a basic Windows PC-type configuration, while Blu-ray's BD-j is Sun Java based."
Real-time Java stomps "windows anything" any day of the week.
"Downloading sucks. XBox downloads seem faster, but if you notice, most of them are in the 5-7 GB range"
You guys are getting hung up on downloading a whole movie in which to keep. The CONTENT services they are speaking of is a STREAM based service. They use the term DIGITAL DOWNLOAD incorrectly unless you assume someone ALWAYS DVR's their streams.
even though blue-ray has a superior storage capacity it is, i believe, inferior to HD-DVD when it comes to disk speed. BUT the average consumer has no idea what disk speed is and will go with the one with the biggest number.
Classic case:
a friend of mine wanted a 128MB stick over a 2GB stick because 128 is bigger than 2....
electronic purchases aren't made based on stats for the average consumer. give it a flashy commercial and it will sell.
To ISOHaven:
"The CONTENT services they are speaking of is a STREAM based service"
-> If it's a streaming service, then I definitely DON'T want downloading. Because you know what, Streaming implies PAID MEMBERSHIP and a SUBSCRIPTION. I like to pay once for a media and own that movie on my media outright, not depend upon a paid membership to watch a movie/show any time I want to.
Most BR movies I have use the H.264 codec. I have not seen any BR movies using the VC-1 codec, so I really can't speak for or against whatever you are stating.
To Stealth:
PSN ID: "Man_The_King"
XBL ID: "Man The King"
Blu ray isn't just superior to HD DVD in disc capacity blu ray has a higher bitrate for video and audio. That's why Michael Bay says it's superior, HD DVD quality is very close to blu ray in visual quality but when it comes to sound there is no comparison.
From what I've seen, a lot of the Blu-ray and HD-DVD movies are around the same price. Also there is the fact that the Blu-ray version of 300 is actually CHEAPER. Really the only thing HD-DVD has an upperhand in is the price of players. Which the cheap players only go 720p and at most 1080i. All Blu-ray players are 1080p.
Stupid guy. I mean, digital distribution already exist, but we lack ONE thing... fast net connexion? lol. In japan it's 100g/s, but I only have 5mg/s. So I download at 500k... it's NOT big at all for a 20gig ps3 game... especially not if our HDD is 80g, so we can install 4 games max...
Digital distribution is simply NOT here before 5 years minimum!!! We'll need fast net, bigger HDD, and a system that works better... I mean, what if my HDD crash or burn? And anyway, a LOT of people like to collect, so digital is not ready for us yet.
So this guy is: stupid!
Anyway, why are we arguying on the opinion of a nowhere who mkes movies? I mean, we could ask doctors and walmart employees too, what's the diff.? It's only OPINIONS! -sigh- Qj post every stupid thing we get their hands on... :'(
"If it's a streaming service, then I definitely DON'T want downloading. Because you know what, Streaming implies PAID MEMBERSHIP and a SUBSCRIPTION. I like to pay once for a media and own that movie on my media outright, not depend upon a paid membership"
You're preaching to the choir dude. I stay away from all that crap.
"Most BR movies I have use the H.264 codec. I have not seen any BR movies using the VC-1 codec"
That's understandable. Not everyone can own ALL BR movies.
"so I really can't speak for or against whatever you are stating"
Sure you can. Go learn what BR is and then you'd know what it can and can't do.
Start with googling "bluray wiki"
When it comes to MOVIE players, the speed of either doesn't matter one bit. What is HD-DVD going to do? Play a 2 hour movie in 1.5 hours? Heheheh...
Thinker, your comment makes plenty of sense, way to put the whole picture together... When the population doesn't believe when a person digs deep into a story, all of a sudden you become a "conspirator" funny. Any who lets take a looky loo at some interesting points here "That is why Microsoft is handing out US$ 100 million dollar checks to studios just embrace the HD DVD" this comment made by Bay was more than likely a statement referring to Microsoft's stake in HD-DVD. When the HD-DVD consortium writes out a check, who do you think is one of the biggest contributors in this "consortium"? Yep you guessed it ladies and gents, Microsoft.
http://www.twice.com/article/CA6480293.html
In regards to ISOHaven's and to Mister Common Sense's comment about there being no point to downloading movies in HD, you two are absouletly right. Journalist Jacqui Cheng agrees with you also as he's stated that there is no reason to kill physical media in his recent article.
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20071205-debunking-the-microsoft-hd-dvd-conspiracy-theories.html
Well all of this seems valid information, that is unless there is something, just something that would allow seamless streaming of HD media and replaced current cable, antenna, and satellite techonologies into any regular home entertainment system... Hmm wait a minute! Check this niffty little piece of technology growing at a rapid rate but not yet perfected... IPTV!!! Ta-Da!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPTV
But wait there's more! It seems that Microsoft is busting into the IPTV seen with the Microsoft Mediaroom, announced in June 18th 2007, two months later $150 million was handed out in "contributions" by the HD-DVD consortium directly by Toshiba (indirectly by Microsoft because they are guilty by association of course).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Mediaroom
So at the end of the day who is the villian?... According to Amir Majidimehr the head of Microsoft’s consumer media technology group “We provided no financial incentives to Paramount or DreamWorks whatsoever,†(translating from bull***** to english) Hey don't point the finger at us, we're innocient!! Well to sum things up ladies and gents as the saying goes, a hit dog will holler. To those interested in Microsoft's business approach pick up a copy of Sun Tzu's "Art of War", great for business philosophy. By the way Mister Common Sense if what you are saying "As a paid Microsoft online forum contributor" that you work for Microsoft then anything you are saying is considered propaganda, why? Not because you are wrong in what you say, simply because you're in bed with queen bee.
-Fujin
You talk about Bay like he's some kind of god, and like we're not worthy of questioning him. He's really not all that good... At least, not nearly as good as he thinks he is.
Michael Bay has no proof to his claims and is basically just repeating what his fanboy friends tell him. He's had so many flip flops in his opinions that's it's obvious that the guy can't think for himself and is easily lead.
Anyone how thinks digital distribution of movies isn't going to take off needs to step back and take a good look at history. I remember when an music album would take a couple of hours to download on a dial modem. iTunes hasn't killed CDs but it has shifted a huge piece of the market over to the digital downloads. Physical media and digital downloads can and will co-exist. I've heard MS representatives echo this statement as well.
Billions of dollars are being spent on faster next-generation broadband networks. Data compression and more advanced media codecs are being created and more and more people will be hooking up internet enabled devices in their living rooms.
Back to disc based discussion. True the HD-DVD camp could give in and lose all it money it's invested in the technology. But the Blu-Ray camp could do this also. HD-DVD was first to market, so you can't blame HD DVD for putting a competing format on the market. That was Blu-Ray.
Personally I still think it's early days in HD disc media. I can't see why everyone is so worried about 2 formats battling it out. Do people hate dropping prices and special free 15 disc offers?
I have to say that I also disagree with digital downloads - especially when our bandwidth is capped (and it costs a packet!).
Firstly we're capped at 3GB per month. What's termed as broadband here starts at 392kb/s - can you imagine how long it'll take to download a title over this connection...and what - download a single title over a few months?
Now the fastest connection we have available here is a 4 meg line (also capped again at 3GB). The cheapest package (392k) costs us roughly $85 per month with the 4 meg line working out to around $140 per month. Then there are issues with backing up these titles...DRM has and never will be fun.
Thanks but no thanks - I'd prefer to buy the hard copy.
quote:-
By the way Mister Common Sense if what you are saying "As a paid Microsoft online forum contributor" that you work for Microsoft then anything you are saying is considered propaganda, why? Not because you are wrong in what you say, simply because you're in bed with queen bee
ouch!!! nice one!!! lol!!!
"When the HD-DVD consortium writes out a check, who do you think is one of the biggest contributors in this "consortium"? Yep you guessed it ladies and gents, Microsoft.
http://www.twice.com/article/CA6480293.html"
Yes the consortium as been described in this thread already ('Toshiba head the consortium which includes Sanyo, NEC, Memory Tech, Intel, Microsoft, and others'). However, the level of contribution of each member is irrelevant to Bay's claims.
100 million was paid by the consortium as a WHOLE, it was decided upon and agreed by the GROUP, not Microsoft acting alone, and yet according to Bay, Microsoft are behind this because they want HD-DVD and Blu-ray to fail. So what happened to all the other members in the HD-DVD consortium who were behind this decision, including Toshiba? So do they want HD-DVD to fail too? Of course they don't, they want it to succeed, and yet by Bay's logic, they don't.
So I have no objection to Bay's issues with HD-DVD vs Blu-ray, because he's entitled to his opinion on the matter, but it's ridiculous to blame MS alone and even more ridiculous to say that the actons of the consortium are examples of MS wanting HD-DVD to fail (along with Blu-ray) when all the other members obviously want HD-DVD to succeed. :|
M$ has said from the beginning of the new format war that they don't believe either format is worthwhile, that the future is in Digital Downloads, and that they believe that this will be the last format war we will see because DD will come up and obscure both formats proving them to be archaic... and that was from an official M$ press statement before either format made it to the market...
Still think Bay is full of crap? I don't and I never did, and I would expect nothing less from a man who built a multibillion dollar empire from Apple's free source code...
"M$ has said from the beginning of the new format war that they don't believe either format is worthwhile".
What MS said about the format war and the actions seen from the HD-DVD consortium are two totally different things.
As I mentioned in my post about, how can the consortium paying out millions of dollars be in support of HD-DVD to help it succeed and yet at the same time be helping it to fail? It MS ALONE paid out this money to movie studios to gain support for HD-DVD, then maybe Bay has a point, but since it came from the WHOLE group (Toshiba, Intel, Microsoft, Sanyo etc), then what he says doesn't make sense at all!
(I never seem to spot them until it's too late :))
@ jrhoutx
MS didn't say either format wasn't worth while. Bill Gates said that it will be the last physical format we will ever have. In 10 years that will most likely be true.
Below is the original quote which you (and other crazy fanboys) took out of context:
In a speech delivered to a packed crowd at Washington DC's Howard University, Gates stated: "The format that's under discussion right now, HD versus Blu-ray, that's simply the last physical format we'll ever have."
"Even videos in the future will either be on a disk in your pocket or over the Internet, and therefore far more convenient for you."
The fact is that i did talk down to you Yaz, why? Because you really talk like MCS way back like you have something to gain from MS(but even he changed)...anyway forget it ever happened, like I said I dont do that...
'' Last time I checked, I hadn't question Michael Bay on his skills as a director (I like some of his films), I questioned his conspiracy theories ''
'' You talk about Bay like he's some kind of god, and like we're not worthy of questioning him. He's really not all that good... At least, not nearly as good as he thinks he is. ''
To both YAZ and Master Chef : There is nothing wrong about questioning someone's theories that is what freedom of speech is all about! but the tone you use and words
Yaz: '' He's uninformed and thinks MS are in control of HD-DVD '' makes all the difference, hense, the fanboy image you give out.
And I dont think he is a god but he has some sort of right to talk about his movie (a rather good movie and perfect for HD )and like I said in order to come forth in public and say such things well i gave you the two options on my previous post...The guy just has to much to lose thats why I believe what he says with a grain of salt of course...
'' the idea that 'we're not worthy' to question Michael Ball. ''
Its not that we're not worthy...I strongly believe that in order for me to be able to question someones idea or point either in gaming or every other aspect I have to have some kind of relevant backround to that spesifc area e.g. making Hollywood movies and being in the nusty stuff involved in the movie industry... So the way I see it we are not the ones appropriate to question him the way you did my friend Yaz, hense '' Last time I checked I haven%u2019t seen your name in any major movie release.. hell, I haven%u2019t seen your name in any release what so ever '' my previous words which were not bad intented even though they sound like it...
I 've learned through my studies in science (Molecular Microbiology) that in order to state your opinion you have to back it up with hard evidence. So questioning alone is not enough for me and my area at least...
As regards Bay's accusations he needs to present evidence...but think about it even if he finds them will he be able to make them public...? i think not, thats why this story is a dead end...but you never know...
Yaz, like I said, I would only reply to you if you changed the way you think (as a blind MS fanboy)...I am not sure if you did that but I definatly saw a change even though you had a
patronising tone which i understand since I did that as well.
Anyway I'm not sure if you have a ps3 but if you do my nick is KATATONIUM add me if you like...
English is my 3rd lunguage so if my sentences are not in perfect grammatical structure please ignore them I hope the make sense though...
"Do people hate dropping prices and special free 15 disc offers?"
-> That? Definitely not man :). The lower the price, the better. The thing is, you start investing in one media, and what if that fails? You are stuck with a Dodo, which is why all the insecurity and criticism, I guess. Anyway, you ARE right about the price drops being good for the consumer.
"Yaz, like I said, I would only reply to you if you changed the way you think (as a blind MS fanboy)...I am not sure if you did that but I definatly saw a change even though you had a
patronising tone which i understand since I did that as well."
I haven't changed my opinion at all, and please explain what you found in my FIRST post to label me as a blind MS fanboy? No really, because there's nothing there other than the fact that I believe Bay is wrong, and I've provided the reasons behind my opinion in this thread. Hence being so quick to label me a fanboy says more about you than it does me.
Your also say "I strongly believe that in order for me to be able to question someones idea or point either in gaming or every other aspect I have to have some kind of relevant backround to that spesifc area e.g. making Hollywood movies".
NO Constantinecy, this is an open forum, it's here for everyone to put THEIR views across, therefore we ALL have the right to question the point of view of EVERYONE else, from the world's leading experts in any field to the views of fanboys online. So please don't pretend that you haven't questioned the statements and opinions of those within the games industry on the basis that they have the experience and you don't, because I know that isn't true.
IMO, your whole problem with my post was that Bay was saying exactly what you wanted to here, and therefore you attacked me for questioning Bay and saying he is wrong (*gasp* how dare I do such a thing *rolleyes*).
'' Michael Bay is just talking nonsense. :| ''
My answer in your own words...
I thought you whould understand well thats life...
"Anyway I'm not sure if you have a ps3 but if you do my nick is KATATONIUM add me if you like..."
I would be happy to, when I eventually get a PS3 that is :)
("HA", I hear you say, "I told you he was a MS fanboy". "No", I reply :))
I don't have a 360 either. I usually don't buy consoles until a few years into the gen. Because by then, most problems would be resolved, there will be a large library of great games, AND the price would be lower.
See you online someday, but until then, don't be so quick to call people fanboys just because you disagree with them! I support whichever point of view I feel is correct at the time, so in this case I'm more than happy to support MS because I believe the accusations against them are unfounded. I wouldn't think twice about supporting Sony, Nintendo or any other company under such circumstances either.
"» yaz
'' Michael Bay is just talking nonsense. :| ''
My answer in your own words..."
For which I would expect people to say why they think I'm wrong and why Bay is right (i.e. a discussion), not simply state that I have no right to question Bay. :|
"» by the way
English is my 3rd lunguage so if my sentences are not in perfect grammatical structure please ignore them I hope the make sense though..."
That's ok, unless attacked first, I never attack a person's grammar and spelling online. As long as I can understand what they mean, then it's good enough for a discussion. :)
I could easily condradict you by questioning you why you are in a gaming forum with out having a console...but whats the point right?
The way i see it i we cannot form an appropriate (note the word appropriate!)di scussion about Bays acquisitions due to the lack of supporting or condradicting evidence from either me or you... this is up to Bay right?
"I could easily condradict you by questioning you why you are in a gaming forum with out having a console...but whats the point right?"
Ever heard of a PC? Ever heard of the XBox and PS2 from last gen?
Come now, since when do I HAVE to own the latest console to participate in a games forum?
"The way i see it i we cannot form an appropriate (note the word appropriate!)di scussion about Bays acquisitions due to the lack of supporting or condradicting evidence from either me or you... this is up to Bay right?"
We can discuss it as much as we like. Come on, stop playing around! :) Just as I don't need a 360 or PS3 to participate in these forums (can't understand why you think I do, but nevermind), we don't need Bay to provide evidence to support his claims in order for us to discuss it.
Hence my question below in this thread regarding the contradiction between the actions of the HD-DVD consortium and Bay's views of MS's motives as part of that consortium.
you can drag and drop your own songs and CDs onto an ipod.
@DVSDevise
"Anyone how thinks digital distribution of movies isn't going to take off needs to step back and take a good look at history."
I don't think anyone here is desputing that. The point is, that wont happen soon enough to kill either HDDVD format. At least not before a winner is determined. Not for a LONG time.
Correction
"In regards to ISOHaven's and to Mister Common Sense's comment about there being no point to downloading movies in HD"
I made no such comment. There are plenty of reasons why someone WOULD want to do as such. The point was that NOT ENOUGH people CAN do as such for it to compete with disc media.
Major difference there.
"In a speech delivered to a packed crowd at Washington DC's Howard University"
He said the same thing at CES 2007. Eh, people hear what they want to hear. See what they want to see. Believe what they want to believe.....regardless of reality!
Ok then..
Dont you think the whole HD-DVD consortium think is just a convinient cover up for MS?
"Ok then..
Dont you think the whole HD-DVD consortium think is just a convinient cover up for MS?"
No, because since the group was setup and headed by Toshiba, it would mean Toshiba, Intel, Sanyo, Nec etc, all want HD-DVD and Blu-ray to fail. I'm sure you would agree that Toshiba's consortium want to do everything in their power to ensure HD-DVD is a success, and if possible, Blu-ray a failure. Therefore to say it's the reverse just because MS are a member is ridiculous. :)
The fact is, even if it was true that Microsoft would like both formats to fail, it doesn't change the fact that the actions of the HD-DVD consortium (such as the $100m or $150m for Paramount to go HD-DVD exclusive) has been to secure the future of HD-DVD, not to make it fail (why would they want it to fail?).
Bay is angry because his film has effectively become a pawn in all of this, where instead of seeing his film come out on both HD-DVD and Blu-ray (as he would have expected), he now sees it as an HD-DVD exclusive because of Paramount Pictures. Hence this outburst before;
http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/21/michael-bay-responds-to-paramounts-abandonment-of-blu-ray-no-t/
It's no wonder he's angry, he's has the right to lash out, but he's not hitting the correct target here when he says it's all due to MS because they want both formats to fail. It actually because of the HD-DVD consortium because they are desperate for HD-DVD to succeed, especially since Blu-ray clearly had the upper hand earlier in the year.
They (the consortium)had to do something, and it worked, at least, so far. How this plays out in futre remains to be seen however. :)
Yaz: Do you think that Microsoft is not capable of pulling strings behind the scenes?... The business that I am in (similar to what Microsoft does on a much much smaller scale) is full of manipulation, and deceitfulness at any cost necessary. Lets say we need to get rid of "Company A" we will use "Company B" to go against the company we want to take out. Do we care about company B? Heck no, but it seems so on the surface as if we care. Even if its going to cost us 10 million to help out the cause against Company B its definiately worth it if we can gain market control over the industry, because short term aberration means nothing to long term goals in business... What's Microsoft's motive? Controlling the digital distribution market without having any serious competitors in the general market. Microsoft is a corporation, not a profitable organization, They're not around to save the manatees or the environment its there make money to keep its investors happy. +D
"Yaz: Do you think that Microsoft is not capable of pulling strings behind the scenes?..."
I was waiting for the 'puppet master' statement to arrive, where poor Toshiba and others have no idea about what's really going on. *rolleyes*
On a similar note:
Fujin, do you think that America is not capable of being behind the September 11 attacks in order to have an excuse to go to war?
As obnoxious and offensive as that statement may sound, that is what I was told by someone who is *convinced* that America wanted to go to war to get their hands on the oil reserves, and therefore needed an attack on such a huge scale on American soil to convince the world that war was justified.
I knew he didn't like America before, but I had no idea it was to that level. As far as he is concerned, America are evil and therefore everything is seen from that perspective. Nothing I say can change his mind, since he always has examples from history that he believes confirms/proves the 'evil' of the US and the lengths they would go to for world domination. Therefore that's enough to 'prove' the US were behind September 11.
So I've given up argueing over the matter, because his view of September 11 is not based upon fact, but instead upon accusations, assumptions and even hatred. America are evil and that's that as far as he is concerned.
Hence the similarities here, where some seem to believe that Microsoft are evil, and that's that! ;)
Yas: Not evil, I never hinted at Microsoft being evil... They are just doing what any company would do for the greater good of the company...
"Browser Wars between Netscape and Microsoft and how Microsoft Pushed the ethics of business"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browser_wars
On the subject about your friend and September 11th, there's no solid proof that "America" as done something for the greater good of the country. Is oil cheaper? No. Are we in debt deeper and deeper? Yes. Can the U.S. Dollar reverse the downward trend that it is, enough to cover all of its dept? Probably not. So if the U.S.'s motive was to allow Sept 11 to happen it definitely would not be for oil, lol.
"White House: Risk of Recession Rising"
http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,23636,22835132-462,00.html
"Fed's Inject (print) $17.25 Billion in two weeks"
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid+newsarchive+sid+aTEr5WA8crog
P.S. read links before commenting +D
Wow another thing I just thought of. Since Sony's biggest investment in the PS3 console is the Blu-Ray player and Microsoft not only wants to take over the gaming console industry, but the media distribution industry as well, why not take the killing the two birds with one stone approach... It's a given that Microsoft wants to dominate in any market that it gets involved in. It has so much invested into the gaming market and if Blu-Ray were to fail, what would happen to Sony's "trump card" bundled in the PS3 A.K.A. Blu-Ray player? It would crash the gaming console and Sony may need to reevaluate their entire business plan also having to show the PS3 as a complete failure and loss. Who's there to pick up the pieces and market share? Microsoft to the rescue!! And with there new IPTV technology investment being 100% compatible with their gaming console and having the ability of taking physical media off the media distribution market, wouldn't that just make a cute couple?
Microsoft never said it could kill off HD-DVD and Blu-Ray with digital distribution. They said they think Blu-Ray and HD-DVD will be the last physical media. And in the same quote said that broadband still needs to become more widespread to hit mass market. They highlighted that in 2005 that only 50% of American had broadband internet.
MS is a smart company, they realize that disc media and digital downloads will co-exist for a long time. Holding back HD-DVD or Blu-Ray is of no benefit to them, because as you and I have both said it will be a while before everyone can download/stream media on demand at a rate that is acceptable to all consumers.
With the recent addition of DivX and Xvid playback on the 360 and Windows Media Centers this throws a major curve ball on the theory that MS is trying to influence the market into buying it digital media from it's marketplace.
On on top of all this bullcrap MS doesn't even sell HD Movies, it rents them. It's not even trying to complete with either HD format because you can't take ownership of the content like you can with a HD-DVD or Blu-Ray disc.
...it doesn't help against those who've made up their minds already (Just as what I say here doesn't help against those who've made up their minds about MS. ;)).
I've been over this aspect already, and the typical response I get is that America's plan simply backfired on them, especially as the war grew more and more unpopular, in both the US and the rest of the world. If things went the other way, he and his fellow believers would be saying it proves their point. According the him, the fact that it doesn't only proves the plan failed and America are now being punished for their evil (or words to that affect).
In otherwords, he has a "plaster for every sore". So what's the point, he's never going to change his mind. :|
And thanks for the links, unfortunately the posting system here on QJ often messes up links, and it's done so with your last link. :(
The point is, there's always a *possibility* of some truth in conspiracy theories, hence there is a possibility of truth in what Bay, yourself and others are saying here about MS. However, I object to such theories being stated as fact when there is nothing to support it.
Hence I no more believe Bay's view regarding MS's role and motives in this issue than I believe America were behind September 11, that JFK was assassinated and the Mafia or USSR were behind it, that Princess Diana was also assassinated, that Man didn't land on the Moon, that Elvis faked his death etc. :)
The point is, there\'s always a *possibility* of some truth in conspiracy theories, hence there is a possibility of truth in what Bay, yourself and others are saying here about MS. However, I object to such theories being stated as fact when there is nothing to support it. Hence I no more believe Bay\'s view regarding MS\'s role and motives in this issue than I believe America were behind September 11, that JFK was assassinated and the Mafia or USSR were behind it, that Princess Diana was also assassinated, that Man didn\'t land on the Moon, that Elvis faked his death etc. :)
Posted that in the wrong place.
Of course this is all a possiblity, untill it actually comes into fruition. What I did was show facts that make Bay's statement more probablity than just a crazy statement... Can Microsoft be capable of something like this? Yes. Do they have a motive behind this? Yes. Is this all true? Only time will tell.. Remember always plan for the future because its the long run that counts... Untill then sit back and enjoy the show.