Thompson argues for Manhunt 2 ban on Fox News |
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On Thompson's side of the argument, he stated how violent video games make adolescents and teens more aggressive and how the games are sold to minors despite the game's rating (citing how his own son was able to buy Bioshock from Best Buy despite the game's rating.)
On Hoenig's side, he argued for the constitutional rights of a person, pointing out the conflicting ideas of banning a game despite the right to free speech. The debate got to the point where even the show's host, Terry Keenan, gave her own views on the matter.
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Comments [refresh]
Hey QJ....
"show's host, Terry Keenan, gives her own views on the matter."
HER? I thought Terry was a male?! Or what's going on...?
A typo perhaps?
...Buddy for the video game got 3 words in, Thompson got a couple of the same tired regurgitated lines in, and we got to listen to 2 minutes of babble between not even just two but 3 different people...
NEXT!
--Databoy2k
beat me again, jaxerir....
anyway, I'm surprised they didn't use that classic jack thompson banner (The one with the close up that gives him a weird G-Man look).
Oh well.
Lol. Jack Thompson.
I'd like to say thank you to that host for not being objective. **obvious sarcasm**
Okay well the whole point of the ESRB is to provide information to the public about who is recommended to play or not play certain games. It's up to the parent to decide what media their children should be exposed to. That includes communicating to their children about their concerns about what's out in the world. Banning a game will only censor the media. If you want to protect your children from an idea, which is basically what they're trying to do, then talk to them about it and do your best to get them to truly see the concepts in the ideas on question. Making it so that they can't see the problem makes it that much more dangerous for them. Sadly enough, they're going to see a lot worse in movies these days. If the problem is in interactivity, you're making the assumption that they're learning how to do horrible things by pushing buttons and making motions. Yes, your child may be more open to ideas of aggression, but that's where communication with the parents and society takes its place. The only times where we see problems is when society neglects a problem.
I realize Johnathon, who apparently doesn't have a last name or works for a specific organization, doesn't do a great job defending his position. Hmm... I can't say much to defend him. He doesn't really debate, he just says what's commonly said and that's it. Fox did a really good job rigging up a one sided debate.
I know I'm just all over the place with this comment but let me go back a little.
the esrb - Many stores have policies that say that they won't M rated games to people without IDs. Even after that, it's up to the clerk to decide whether or not to follow that rule. Most stores would enforce that rule on their clerks but that's in an ideal situation. Now, as for online purchases, most children don't have credit cards. As for debit card purchases, I would imagine the parent would want to monitor the purchases their children make on the internet. I'm all for giving your children freedom, and trusting them, but the point of parenting is to watch over them for the mistakes that they do and will make. Now, parents who give their children their credit cards to make a purchase, their doing their parenting the way they want to.
As for using the idea that the UK already banned the game... well, we're not the UK. Their policies, although similar, are still different from our own. Their culture is different. Hell, our culture is made up of hundres upon thousands of cultures. Well maybe not thousands depending on the way you look at it, but you get my drift. We have to treat things differently here in order to be fair. Treating everyone equally is unfair to those who aren't in equal standing or position with you. Don't force Americans to live the same way as Europeans (broad I know, but you get the point). We have different ideas on how things should be run/done.
The sting operations... Jack, said he went there with him. I know he probably meant that he went with him to the store but not with him when he bought it, but I know people would've caught on to that slip of the tongue and made all sorts of accusations about it (well actually just one).
ehhhhh
poor guy thats supposed to defend us he didnt even get a chance to argue really lol looks like thompson won this debate tho it was really anything just him saying the same cheezy lines again
terry's the blondein the beginning. She has one of those unisex names that work for both genders:
chris, alex, sam, freeplay, bobby/bobbi, etc.
Arguing with Jack Thompson should be viewed in the exact same way Richard Dawkins views arguing with Creationists: "[they] don't mind being beaten in an argument. What matters is that we give them recognition by bothering to argue with them in public."
i think wal-mart and best buy are gonna kill it for us all. they need to enforce those ratings so we can actually get games out there that completely express the devs. views and ideas. now jack had a very *****ty point on amazon.com.... where the hell is a 15 year old going to get a credit card to buy stuff online? the parents are buying these games for them, then when they walk in on it being played, they scream and fuss and call jack thompson because they think their kid's going to shoot up his school, when if they would have paid attention to the rating system in the first place like they should have, the child would have never obtained the game.
think of it this way, if your kid says "i want manhunt 2", or "i want grand theft auto!" do you think the parents don't question those games with titles like those? it works the same way as if your kid came up to you and said "i want asian gangbang 2!" would you say "ok, here's the credit card, go to amazon.com" parents these days don't think right, they observe the rating system, but they don't care what it means until they buy it and see the game play. they need to have a store where you can go for M and AO games ONLY and you have to show ID to get in. ***** selling M rated games at walmart if everyone's just gonna ***** about it.
Jack said violent video games MAY cause violent behaviour of young people. If some video game causes you to go on a killing spree , then you were already mentally *****ed up before.
Yes, I like how the host was helping the senile old man...
Also, I like how they gave Jack the last word.
BTW, Fox is an idiot. Instead of bashing Manhunt, they should've gotten Rockstar to pay for advertising it! Almost all of Fox's money comes from advertising (cough*justlook atmyspace*cough ).
BTW, if you don't mind telling us, QJ, how much do you guys make in a month from advertisements? Just an approximate! Is it in the hundreds? Thousands? Tens of thousands?
Please tell!
terry's the blonde in the beginning. She has one of those unisex names that work for both genders:
chris, alex, sam, freeplay, bobby/bobbi, etc.
Ok, personally I don't even like the idea behind Manhunt, and I really don't care about the game in itself... But I do care for the vg industry, and unfortunately as long as people like Jonathan Hoenig are put in charge of debating these subjects on TV and defending freedom of speech, hypocritical moralists like Jack Thompson will have an easy time in making their points come through...
A very easy way to completely pwn the "ambulance chaser" would have been to just remain calm and explain how his whole self-righteous speech was completely ludicrous and devoid of any validity, like this:
1) First of all, my poor demented Jack, you didn't play the whole game either, so how do you know the game hasn't been changed enough to grant a change from A.O. to Mature? You can't criticize the Entertainment Software Rating Board for not playing videogames until the end before awarding a rating when you're the first to talk out of pure assumptions.
2) "The game got a mature rating so frankly it will be sold to children of all ages"... What the hell are you talking about, Jack? Doesn't mature mean it has to be sold only to ppl aging 17+?!? It's not the programmer's, or the publisher's fault if a Mature rated game gets sold to chidren... I mean, some teenagers are also able to "sneakily" buy alcohool in the US, where it's illegal, but that doesn't mean alchool should be banned!
The solution is to make vendors observe the rules, not to use censorship - anyone with a bit of brain could understand that.
3) Violent videogames make children more aggressive? Honestly, I can believe it, no problem. But then also violent movies and violent TV... And watching an inappropriate movie or show on the small screen it's far easier for a children than going out and buying an inappropriate game... Actually, it's much easier to prevent a children from buying a violent videogame than preventing him from being exposed to gory or disturbing images coming from the traditional media. Shall we ban TV too then?
Come on... The only thing that Jonathan managed to nail in his poor attempt at defending Manhunt was to underline the PARENTS' responsibility in spending enough time and care for their children to make sure they're not experiencing games, shows, magazines or movies which are not "approved".
4) "I can't prevent my son from going to a friend's house"... Oh, Terry, your lack of intelligence is almost funny. First of all, OF COURSE YOU COULD, and second, if the solution explained at point 1) would be applied (which means: make sure that game vendors respect the rules and sell mature games only to ppl aging 17+) that wouldn't be necessary, since your son's friend wouldn't be able to buy the game either (provided they're about the same age - if they aren't, well, you should ban adult magazines as well as your son's older friend might have some porn you wouldn't like your kid to see
Where the hell comes all this hypocritical concern about kids and violence in videogames? Shouldn't Jack and Terry be a little bit more worried by the fact that, in their own Country, anybody - yes, even those children and teenagers who are unsuited to play violent games - can too easily get their hands on a gun and use it?
I like that guy on the right, hes my hero!
Man, I'm just happy that the game got leaked.
Thank you SCEE for leaking it to the internet.
Slowly I'm beginning to believe that the game is never ever going to be released.
the ESRB is a self made, self governing body. It's not the law. The ESRB made themselves out of the goodness of their own heart. They don't HAVE to govern, if they don't want. It's a volunteer group so to speak. The worse thing the government can do is "fire" a group that wasn't hired to begin with...
The only loser in the end would be Rockstar... Since their profits would be so low. Technically, can't Rockstar sue Tony Blair and George Bush, since they're the premiers behing the corporations stopping Rockstar from making money? I mean, people get sued insane amounts when caught using p2p, so it's only fair that they can sue the culprits who are stealing the BIG money.
I mean, seriously, this corporate loophole $hit is really pi$sing me off.
If some random person were kicked in the nuts by some random lady, then nothing would happen. But, if you were so much as to punch a famous person, boy oh boy are you gonna be sued and jailed...
If you steal a lady's purse, the cops are gonna tackle you and maybe taze you. You'll probably even be sent to a scary jail, complete with murderous jail birds. If you steal millions from stock holders, you'll be taken to jail kindly, and this "jail" will be a joke (*coughmarthste wardandparishil toncough*)...
Likewise, if you steal a single copy of a game, you're gonna be sued like crazy, for causing "loss of profits". But, if you're the government or a famous person, like jacka$$ humpson, you're special, so you can cause rockstar to lose millions.
Not that i support rockstar in general; they'd sue the little guy (the poor pirate) at the slightest chance possible; I'm just saying that since rockstar is the little guy in this case, it should be getting our support.
Now, if it was the opposite case: Rockstar suing a pirate, let hell rain upon Rockstar.
"It magically got the Mature rating, which means children of ALL ages will be playing it."
When I was a kid, if my parents even so much as saw me HOLDING a Mature game, I lost that console for at least 5 months, true story, it happened once. Somehow, I doubt we will be seeing every 5 year old, and their younger brother playing Manhunt 2.
"My son went in to Wal-mart and bought a Mature game with no problem, I went with him and he bought it with no problem."
Um... Jacko... they will sell Rated M games to kids if their parents are with them... So maybe you should try it without you going with him? o_O
"People are selling this on Amazon and anyone can get their hands on it!"
Yes, that's correct, anyone can get their hands on it... if they have a credit card or PayPal... something tells me 10 year olds don't tend to have a credit card, and you need to be 18 or older to get PayPal.
And I actually agree with your arguements.
You don't need a credit card to shop at Amazon.com. A debit card will work just as well and anyone with a checking account can get one of those and you don't need to be 18 to get a checking account. Or you could use a gift card. Another option are those pre-paid credit cards that you can give as gifts. They work just like a regular gift card does, but you can use them anywhere the credit card company is accepted. Again, don't need to be 18 to use it. Lastly, if an adult in the house has one-click purchasing setup on their Amazon account, it's pretty simple to get around the requirement to have an adult present to make the transaction. Sure, it's not exactly legal to do that, but it's easy enough to do and no one is being legally held accountable for it unless your family is really dysfunctional and they decide to press charges on you for doing it. Most normal people wouldn't do that to a family member, though.
On the Amazon.com, Best Buy, and Target points, I agree with Jack. Having these regulatory bodies (the ESRB in this case) and content ratings in place is all well and good, but if the retailers aren't working with them and doing their part in all this to help enforce them, then it's as good as not having the ESRB at all. Even the best parents in the world can't watch their kids every second of the day, so the burden can't be placed entirely on them. Everyone in the chain has to do their part. There's no legal consequences for the retailers to not uphold the policies they've put in place and there's only financial gain to be had, so there's little incentive on their end to do anything about it. Goverment and parent groups will need to put pressure on the offending retailers to put better age-checking precedures in place if the general public is serious about making the ESRB ratings work as intended.
I've made it a point to contact the store manager and tell them about my experience when buying M rated games because usually I do not get carded. Granted, I'm 30 years old, so that may be part of the reason why, but I still get carded at the bar and the liquor store... This is the kind of feedback managers need if things are going to change. They can't correct their subordinates if they don't know they are doing something wrong.
Your "hero" sucks at debating and would likely lose to any high school kid with half a brain. He just started going ape-shiz and making very little sense. Seriously, it was like going to the zoo and watching monkeys flinging poo at each other. Eek! Eek!
***** jack thompson
I never realized how much of a tool jack thompson was!
Thank goodness it was leaked. For what its worth, all three of these idiots should just shut up.
I'd like to take this time to point out that all of what Jack Thompson says is not based on an ounce of fact. Adolescent Psychology is a complete separate branch of psychology with thousands of grad students majoring in this field. I recently have had the oppurtunity to take a course in Adolescent Psychology so I know what I'm talking about.
There has been absolutely no studies whatsoever to relate violent behavior in adolescents to violent video games. All we know is many kids that played violent video games did some very nasty things. Why they did those things, what made them do those things, was their playing those games prior to doing those things is in any way related or not, would they have done the same if they hadn't been playing those games remains yet to be seen.
I impress again, there have been no scientific research or studies that relate violent behavior in adolescents to video games IN ANY WAY OR FORM. So, basically Jack Thompson blabbing on like an idiot about violent video games is as if someone witnesses 3 or 4 plane crashes and concludes that if you sit on an airplane you're going to die.
he needs to get some psychiatric help.
yeah, I really miss that banner.
I always LOL hard when I see it!
Hey QJ!!!!!!!!!!
Please bring back the Thompson banner!!!!!!!!
Bring back that banner, QJ!!!
why don't you go back to whining about how I bashed you on the forums for asking retarded questions, you self-important *****.
"I believe that there are greater reasons for the social ills of adolescent violence than playing a video game, because I believe that violence was existing prior to the release of even Pong."
-Adam Sessler
Haha, that was a good sneak-in though at your expense, FreePlay.
If anyone here has ever taken the time to read the reports that good ole Jacky is using to support his ideas you would find that they indicate a rise in "aggressive behavior". Aggressive behavior is not defined as violent behavior, they are very different terms when used in the psychiatric arena. Aggressive can mean anything from the subject wanting another mountain dew to being argumentative. I really hope someday soon an intelligent person will bring this fact up with him because it hasn't been done yet as far as I know. On a side note Aggressive behavior can also be misuse of the game console peripherals (ie throwing, torquing, or extreme mashing of buttons).
Is the other one a hoenig or a halfnig
i think he has shares in manhunt 2 and that is why he is protesting against it so much because he knows if he does this the sales will be through the roof no matter what the actual game is like.
That was not a debate! A debate has set rules and regulations and usually gives each side sufficient, or at least equal, time to make each sides point/s.
That was far from a debate. That was two people ganging up on one other person to the point that most of it was unintelligible raucous display of ignorance and factless drivel.
A good debater will win based upon the validity of his points, not by talking over the other debater until they quit trying to talk over you. They didn't just give Jack the last word they made sure that he got the majority of the words. Terry should have moderated the debate instead of helping Jack talk over Jonathan.
My two cents.
I've lost track of how many space invaders I've killed, ghost monsters I've eaten and Robotron grunts I've pumped high-intensity lasers into, but you know what? I'm no violent psychopath (most times anyway). I think I turned out alright.
- T
Touche... Ya, I called freeplay a noob earlier... Turns out he's contributed a lot to the homebrew scene (yes, I'll admit it: unlike me)...
But still, I can still dis you if I want
It's a freeplay country. Oh wait... I mean Free Country ;D
So sorry for spamming the forums with that comment. My computer was acting real laggy, and I kept hitting submit. Eventually, they all popped in at once. QJ, would you please delete redundant copies of the post above? Thanks!
now that you mention mountain dew, for some reason, I feel like playing Halo 3. I wonder why?
fack jack and his kid , if you dont want violence to your dumbass kid then stay him on nickelodeon games... hail to man hunt 2 this must go on ...