The Penguin won't be visiting the PSP anytime soon. |
Ó
It has already been proven that the uClinux Proof Concept was actually fake. The problem with porting Linux to the PSP is the fact that the PSP's CPU is without a very vital unit known as the MMU - Memory Management Unit. While explaining its function would be out of the scope of this story, suffice to say that it's the main reason why its impractical to port Linux.I'm not using the word impossible, because stranger things have happened. But even if Linux is actually ported, you won't be looking at a GUI most probably. That takes out most of the fun, i.e. Desktop Environments like KDE, GUI browsers like Firefox, or 3D games like Tux-Racer.
If and when it is ported, it will most probably be a command line interface which would be useless for everyone, but the hardcore linux users who get a kick out of running it on just about anything possible. Although it might help in exploiting the PSP's firmware, it's purely speculative. We can never know until we can get our hands on one.
All the consoles on which Linux has been ported do have a CPU with a MMU. Case in point, the Gamecube and the Xbox.
Although there have been rumours that a team (psp-linux) is porting Linux to the PSP, it's also fake.
Here's a quote from someone who was in the team.
"You can't just run Linux as a "PSP Application", since the PSP OS is still lingering around in memory. You'd have to reboot the PSP and boot linux, thats where the fun comes into play. You probably can't do that unless you flash the Firmware to include a bootloader, and thats hit-and-miss in the dark, literally, 1 in a Million that you don't brick your PSP. "
Sorry to burst your bubble guys, but the penguin won't be visiting the PSP anytime soon.
To know more about the MMU, check out the Wikipedia link below.
50 Jumps PlayStation celebrates 15th birthday
36 Jumps PSP homebrew - MHUSPEED v3
22 Jumps PSP homebrew - MacroFire v3.0.12
Contact Us:
The QJ.net Network |
 |
| Site | Feed |
| QJ.NET | RSS |
| Nintendo DS | RSS |
| PlayStation 3 | RSS |
| PSP Updates | RSS |
| Wii | RSS |
| Xbox 360 | RSS |
| MMORPG | RSS |
| Personal Computer Games | RSS |
| iPhone - iPod Touch | RSS |
| QJ.NET Forums | RSS |
Add QJ.NET
User Favorites - December
User Favorites - December
Categories
Archives
Accessories
Add-ons
Applications
Artwork
Batteries
Cheats
Deals
Emulators
Events
Featured Articles
Firmware
Flash Applications
Flash games
Game Demos
Games
Hacks & Exploits
Homebrew Applications
Homebrew Demos
Homebrew Development
Homebrew Emulators
Homebrew Games
Homebrew Themes
How-To
Humor
Imports
Interviews
Magazines
Mods
MY QJ
News
Off Topic
On Shelves This Week
Opinions & Analysis
Podcasts
Previews
PSP Go
PSP Minis
PSP Slim & Lite
QJ How-To Series
QuickJump QuickGuide
QuickJump QuickPeek
Reviews
Rumors
Scans
Screenshots
Site News
Titles
UMD Movies
Videos
Weekend Warrior
Wi-Fi
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
Comments [refresh]
nocomment
cut me off before i could make my comment. anyway what about bochs? i thought that could emulate linux
who really cares, if u do it for the applications, just make a clone
bochs is emulation...linux could run that way...but it would be even more useless..
running linux native, which is the dream, is almost impossible.
Aww this anonymous coward thinks that the penguin looks so sad in that picture...
It never seems to amaze me the extremes sites like psphacks.net will go to for members. :(
Actually, a port of the linux kernel would be a great thing, because instead of being useless to everyone, we'd suddenly have a much easier way to write network clients.
Think: ftp client/server, IM/IRC client, music players, etc. -- do those things require fancy GUI interfaces to run? They all already exist for linux. If you can get the kernel running on the PSP and port over a C library, it's no longer necessary to jump through so many hoops to get things working. You can do all your development and testing on a linux machine using standard tools, and then cross-compile for PSP.
I'd love linux on the psp, because then I'd get flac audio support!
Linux has been ported to PlayStation 2 as well, you can buy the disc to do that from Sony themselves.
Apperaently the same way you can put Linux on it.
It's just ree....e...a......l....l......y..y........s..l.l....oo..o.o....w...w.w..
That's all.
Link: http://www.hacker.co.il/psp/bochs/
Actually, you don't need an MMU to run uClinux. Take a look at the iPodLinux project (http://ipodlinux.org) where even though the iPod has an MMU, it is not featureful enough to be used by Linux, though they do have a running port. Not only that, they have a GUI (podzilla) that runs on top of that, with plugins for games with graphics, including a port of Doom! Better do more research before saying something is close to impossible. In fact it would run uClinux much better than the iPod because of the available memory and CPU speed, more than likely. I can't wait to see it run...
While it may or may not be factually correct that the proof of concept is fake, the explanation is just plain wrong. True, glibc, requires an MMU. True, most often the Linux kernel and other application are built on glibc. However, uClibc is a readily available glibc replacement specifically for microcontroller s lacking MMUs, and uCLinux is a Linux disribution based upon it. The lack of an MMU is definitely not the main barrier. Please do your research.
the lack of mmu IS the main reason why it would be impractical.. I never said that it was difficult to port it because of that. Just that it wouldnt be very useful. Do a bit of proof-reading before actually going out and making a fool of yourself.
I think we should invent a keyboard before we start debating porting Linux.
...The GBA doesn't have MMU support and uClinux has been ported to it.
You are absolutely right, uClinux does not need an MMU. Because of this, I see no reason why linux would not run on psp. However, the iPod doesn't have a true MMU: it only has some MMU type facilities.
To confirm what some othes are saying, iPodLinux does *not* use an MMU, and runs effectively. The power of uClinux on the PSP would be exponentially greater and could open up a vast range of applications, especially given the much larger screen real estate, greater speed, and much better interface capabilities.
yep uClinux is no further away from the PSP than any other peice of hardware out there. Linux is way to versitale not to run on just about any hardware setup. So what if 90% of linux apps don't work, you can always write new ones. There is a reason why so many linux apps are compiled a thousand different ways for all the different distros anyways.
linux has already been ported to psp... goddamn do some research first n00bs!
i am teh anonymous coward
"I'd love linux on the psp, because then I'd get flac audio support!"
I'm not a hardcore audiophile, but I appreciate quality equipment and sound. Just wondering why you'd use FLAC? The psp's audio isn't that impressive (I don't mean the thrown in headphones or built in speakers). Why waste a memory card on 1 album's worth of music? =/
#7 - You mentioned that using a standard C library and tools to port to the PSP would be easier.
That's what we already do to code for PSP. Coding for the PSP is *very* similar to Linux coding. The C libraries are nearly identical and most developers do do development and some testing(using slightly customized program versions usually with different graphics and network backends) on PC before cross-compiling to PSP (which uses the standard gcc/binutils suite).
Linux on the PSP would have few advantages, especially since it wouldn't be "standard" anyway (you'd have to use uclibc and ucLinux because of the lack of an MMU)
The problem isn't the lack of an MMU, but the kernel running in the background on the PSP. Like it was explained in the article, for linux to work 'for real' on a psp, a bootloader would need to be programmed and put onto the flash memory... Ie you would have to fool the firmware into reading files off the mem stick. I don't think anyone is prepared to risk bricking a psp trying to run a modifyed firmware.
It's possible linux could be emulated, but even if it was it would be impossibly slow (like Win 95 was in Bochs). Actually it's theoretically possible that both the OS's could run on the PSP 'for real' at a decent speed, the hard part would be writing custom drivers, and of course modifying the firmware.
all we need is an SSH client. The peldet code would be a good starting point for some sort of putty type ssh client.
!!!! The whole point of uClinux is to be able to run Linux on non-MMU archs! How stupid can people get?
Sounds like a lack of dedication...
I think these people think you actually were writing this program...LMAO. I mean all you do is come here and reinterate what someles said, and all of a sudden it's all your fault ?!?! I mean if YOU people know so much, why aren't YOU doing something, oh yah, I forgot you would rather sit there and b***h and moan like a bunch of spoiled brats. Sad man , sad !!!!
No, I'm not an a**kisser, I just thinks it's a little childish how you people handle yourselves in here. If YOU did your research like you say the admin DIDN'T then obviously it'd have to be a little more detailed , right? Again, sad, just sad. You're lucky you even get to come in here and post at all you lil f****ts.
wtf?
COUGH bochs COUGH
I was going to point out the glaring errors made in this story but thankfully others have done it for me :)
If only this site got some decent writers!
Now fakes come from France too...
FTA: "It has already been proven that the uClinux Proof Concept was actually fake."
Link to the proof that it's fake. Since you didn't do any research anyways on the whole mmu topic, it would seem that this story is an attempt to poke fun at psphacks.net since that is where the ucLinux story originated.
maybe you could modify the firmware and run it with mph's firware launcher
"Here's a quote from someone who was in the team.
"You can't just run Linux as a "PSP Application", since the PSP OS is still lingering around in memory. You'd have to reboot the PSP and boot linux, thats where the fun comes into play. You probably can't do that unless you flash the Firmware to include a bootloader, and thats hit-and-miss in the dark, literally, 1 in a Million that you don't brick your PSP. " "
First off, this is completely idiotic. of COURSE you can run linux as a thread in the PSPOS with a proper wrapper. Just look at CoLinux or UML. ( http://www.colinux.org )
Lack of an MMU is not a problem because if you're running it as a thread under a runtime enviroment, it can have it's own memory management system.
Plus, you most certainly could run it natively directly on the hardware without reflashing the system, as you'd simply need to buffer overflow something like the current exploits already do and run the proper assembly code to clear out the memory and set things up; but you'd need to write a whole new platform layer for the hardware. Could be done with enough effort and good coders. Give someone an inch and they can take several miles, a freeway, and a ferry if they're good enough ;)
-- Kamilion
"literally, 1 in a Million that you don't brick your PSP. "
nope. only 999.999.
you send me the code and i do load it to my psp.
no problemo.
mrn.at.post.cz
The reasons why Linux would be impractical to port to the PSP are all BS. The PSP would be an easy machine to port Linux too, much easier than something like the GBA was. You have a high power CPU that already has precedent for being supported by the kernel, a lot of RAM, and a block device to load the file system from.
The MMU problem? Just the complaints from a team that is not dedicated enough to the task. If that is the problem, when why is DSLinux already running with X and WiFi? On a machine that not only does not have an MMU, but has a fraction of the total power the PSP does.
Put sdk on torrent !!!
... how can you refute the existance of something that has a working download? ...it extracts and it runs... it shows the tux. it tells me how much memory i have. it's a normal eboot set for 1.5... seriously. am i the only one who actually extracted and RAN this thing? psphacks didn't lie to me -- it had an article and provided a file that did what it claimed in said article... if it's a fake, it's a pretty elaborate fake -- one that required something actually be COMPILED. it wouldn't surprize me if this thing shows up working in a couple months... it hangs when trying to mount the root device...
Mmm... the PSP core it is a MIPS-R4000 without TLB. The TLB (Translation Lookaside Buffer) is a table used in paged memory model.
It's a part of some MMU's but not the entire unit!
Some ports of linux has an emulated TLB's for some architectures (for example: arm). I think that a Linux port it's possible but need to write some code in flash (this is very dangerous to test!!)
for 1.* firmwares with kernel level access, writing to flash is not very important an objective... flash is just where one would want to store the kernel+initrd for keeps... but that isn't an obstacle to RUNNING a custom kernel while it's being developed... frankly, the only thing i'd want in my flash is some kind of grub or pxe for booting eboots, elfs, etc, off the memory stick... a bootloader port, rather than a kernel, might be a better goal in the short term... it would let those with 1.* firmwares skip this whole running an app from the game menu thing (if a cold boot put me in my favorite app, i'd call that a milestone)... plus it could remove the need for the mph firmware emulators because you could conceivably boot any firmare off the memorystick... a little assembly is a more reasonable goal, and it would not be "emulating" anymore... the firmware would actually WORK.
again, i stress: you do not need to write to flash to test/run a kernel if you are willing to load it via sony's os...
it would not be a major loss if i never wrote to the firmware in my life, but used a bootloader APP from the game menu to do a network/memorystick boot of uClinux. that would be pretty cool, frankly.
so: a bootloader... that's what i'll be looking into.
and for that matter/on that note... the linux kernel is just it's api set, and that can be addressed in the toolchain. i think one of the main things missing from the pspsdk is support for fork, though i haven't looked at it in a couple of months... if you can compile busybox, you're half way to linux... it's already got a filesystem. even if a straight port doesn't work out (like the panicy kernel that's the topic of the blasphemous article -- that shows the tux at "boot"; whatever THAT means), somehting like cygwin for the sony host os is conceivable. so put on a happy face! the end is always 'nigh'...
Hi. Just to keep the Faith aLive, here are some links with linux ports.
Guys, if you check out the Palm link, and do a little serach you will see
how those coders used their tools to make Linux boot on the closed Palm platform. I know, most of the machines are ARM-based, but still...
Linux on all the Win.CE PDAs
http://handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/SupportedHandheldSummary
Linux on all the Palm devices
http://hackndev.com/
Linux on the iPod:
http://ipodlinux.org/Main_Page
suppose it's real... so we run into a kernel panic, no interrupts are dealed with anymore (the IV, as everything else is f****d). There has been prooved that the PSP has an internal hw watchdog that resets the unit after 10 seconds if irq3 is not processed. The unit does not reset, i.e. the irq 3 is has an active handel associated, which does the right thing (resets the watchdog), i.e. the psp native os is there... YAFFF (yet another fake from france).
Does anybody know if someone tries something on this topic? How far is the success?
Are the ideas mentioned above good/helpful?
Regards
Icke