GameStop: Sell an M-rated, get the Trump treatment |
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While legislation to incur stricter penalties for mature games isn't exactly taking off, it looks like the retailers aren't going to be taking any chances. According to insider info taken from the GameStop retail chain, any employee caught selling M-rated (that's 17+) games to minors will be fired.This info comes in light of GameStop's conference call last week, wherein managers were informed of the stricter policy. The new rule further details that not only will the offending employee get the boot, but his direct superiors (the managers) will suffer a similar penalty - probably in an attempt to reinforce command responsibility. It will be remembered that GameStop is a member of the ESRB Retail Council, alongside Circuit City, Best Buy, and Blockbuster Video.
Given the sort of flak we've been hearing on gaming (not just here, mind you), we'll consider this as a form of good news from the retailer's side - glad to know they're doing what they can to ease the flames. Unfortunately, we do see one loophole to this rule - what about the parents buying these games for their minors? Then again, that's just us. What's your say on this, guys?
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Comments [refresh]
It's a good thing keeping these games from minors. Its up to parents if they get to buy them and play them after that.
Although I agree, they can be sold to minors if the parents are with them, it worked fine for me when I bought Gears of War with my dad.
How responsible for kids do you think a retailer should be? If the parent buys it for their kid, and it's a mature title, then that's on them.
Why is it always the retailer who has to be held to the higher authority. If you sell cigarettes or beer to a kid, you are in legal trouble, but do you think that kid will get in trouble for trying to buy cigarettes or beer? No Sir.
Similar story here.
I dont think the retailers will care very much if parents buy M-rated game for thier kids. As long as when a game related murder happens, they dont get the blame for it.
I will buy games for minors....they just need someone older than 18 to purchase the games for the minors.....thats all
So when i am always in Gamestop, i do that and they dont say nothing to me.
With something like this though, couldn't a friend or "stranger" by the title for the minor. This idea is pure crap because those minors will always find ways to get around this.
Even though the retailers are trying to ease the pain, there will most likely be employees who will get fired because some kid will try to go around the system and find someone who will buy the game. The parent could get mad and basically the employee will get booted because the kid will lie.
I tried to buy Gears of War at 3 different stores and each said I had to be 18 years old (I'm 17 which is truly the legal age to buy M rated games).
No Sir?
i don't get it...
no one wants to blame the parents for failing to raise their child. it's the movie they saw, or the game the played, or even the music the listened to... never the parents' lack of actual parenting.
i understand why people want to keep things from kids, they don't want to, or are too lazy to, actually address the issues with their children.
we don't need to ban or regulate games, movies, or music... we need to force parents to take responsibility for their actions.
once i was old enough to communicate and understand my parents let me play any game, watch any movie, or listen to any music i wanted. i think i was about 10 when they rented mortal kombat for my genesis.
i have never struck anyone in my entire life that didn't hit me first, and i don't steal from people i would call my friends.
i am the guy that holds the door for you, picks up something you dropped, or lets you out of the parking lot you've been trying to exit for the last 5 minutes.
i will do the same for my children and no one can stop me.
ignorance truely is bliss...
Well... its kinda stupid IMHO... like seriously =_=
You guys have all these restrictions in the US, and yet its concidered to be a country of "Freedom."...
Here in japan, you don't see any of this. A 7 year old could go and buy DoAX2 and there wouldn't be any tension of even questions at all...
but then again, here in Japan, we see adverts for playboy on the subways everyday too... so :/
Gamestop and EB Games registers customers into their systems. When a customer buys an M rated game (and is old enough to) make that customer fill out a one-time questionnaire that asks the questions "Do you take full responsibility for the upholding of the law according to the age restriction on games that you purchase here at Gamestop/EB Games?" and "Do you take full responsibility if and when a minor plays your purchased games when the ESRB rating is higher than their depicted age is recommended?"
This one-time questionnaire will be filed in their store database. This will hopefully make the purchaser take a higher responsibility for whoever plays their games, because if a minor claims that the direct cause of their insidious actions were depicted in a video game that they played over at the purchaser's house... more blame will be directed towards the purchaser because he signed the questionnaire saying he'd/she'd take responsibility.
M rated games are intended for 17 and up, that is true. But there is no legality involved. Those ratings on the covers are voluntary, its just that the stores CHOOSE to make polices were you must be a certain age out of fear of being sued. The reason their is no law against it is because that would violate several parts of the Constitution, although that hasn't stopped retards like Hilary Clinton from trying.
There is no law that enforces any form of restriction on non-pornographic entertainment. Therefor your questionair is pointless. If I want to buy GoW and then sell or give it to a six year old, I can. I would be breaking no law what so ever. Game ratings are by the ESRB (which is a privately owned company) and the ratings are voluntary (just like movies). The government cannot regulate non-pornographic entertainment because that would violate the constitution. The only thing stopping you from being under age and buying a M rated games is store policy. A store reserves the right to refuse business to anyone so they "get around the law" (same with theaters). The truth is they don't care about the child but they want to protect there ass from being sued by the parent in civil court.
That's mostly because of society. The ratio of murders to people in Japan is much lower than the US mainly because of the people and their society. The US society glorifies sex, drugs, and things such as the "gansta" lifestyle. (see music, television, movies, etc.) For example, the media in the United States glorifies obscenely skinny women. This causes many teenage girls to become anorexic.
Of course, it's not only the media's fault. Poor parenting can be seen as the main cause of their children's flaws. If you cannot teach your kids what they should do and what they shouldn't you shouldn't even have kids. If you cannot teach your kids the difference between fantasy (GTA) and reality (1 shot kills you, not 30), then you shouldn't have kids. If you can and do, then you are a good parent. If not, you shouldn't even risk having sex. Nobody wants your demonic spawn.
Then again, that's all my opinion.
Well, lung cancer kills 3 million people each year. Violent video games don't.
This is not true...yet. This is an possible action taken by gamestop, but has not been passed into policy yet, and if it is, then expect any cautious managers to ask for ID from everyone.
Gotta love mexico.
qw can get any game here. no matter the age.
By the way, for the record, there is no store database that records or registers customers, people just assume that there is...
theres no such thing as a game related murder...
its called a scapegoat
if parents allow their kids to have m rated games, then the retailer is not at fault. but selling them to minors directly is not right.
...
"and i don't steal from people i would call my friends."
Well it's good to know you would steal from people who are not your friends...
I used to manage a game store, and I would enfore the 17+ for M rated games. However, I got a lot of complains about my policy. I had parents tell me that I shouldn't sell M rated games to anyone under 21...which I thought was insanity. I ALSO had parents complain, and even go as far as calling the Better Business Bureau for NOT selling an M rated game to their 10 year old!
Still...I'm a firm believer of the "blame the parents" idea. If the parents don't know that little Billy is building bombs in the basement, then there's a bigger problem than what games the kid's playing.
...that's why you don't get Wii's or anything of any interest unless it's imported. No rules equals chaos and... well... Mexico isn't the most organized government in the world...
Out here, minors can't purchase an M title, they can't exchange an M title, they can't trade in an M title, they can't even reserve an M title!
I agree with this for the most part though, what this is doing is putting the kids back in their age groups and you won't have "mature for his age" be an excuse on why a teen should have a cell phone and be able to go to island vacation getaways without a parent...
This is just so wrong, I don't know where to begin.
The ESRB is a private organization that has taken it upon themselves to create these rating.
If they are to be given this kind of semi-legislative power, they need to be ruled by elections and have total transparency so that we know eho they are and be able to shape their rating standards.
No private organization like that can claim to have higher authority over what my children should be able to see or not.
These recommendations were originally created, as in MPAA's case, to serve as guidelines to the *parents* so that they would not have to preview everything.
The mistake that was made, in my opinion, was to associate these ratings with predefined agelimits.
The rating should just have very briefly summarized what the product contains in three or four different categories.
If we are so reluctant to expose our children to certain kinds of things, the solution will never be to censor it from their day to day culture.
The only solution is to remove it from real life.
By just removing any references to things we don't like from virtual content (by this I mean any non-real, such as videogames, movies, comics, music and so on) all that is achieved is that our children will then be less prepared for the counterpart of that occurence in real life if it ever were to happen.
We need to teach our children to take responsibility for their own actions instead.
I could go on, but I think you all get my point...
3 years ago when i was 16 i went to gamestop to buy a game for my brother that was rated Ma, they wouldnt sell it to me, i threw a fit, then my mother had to go to the store to throw a fit at them, Azels all of em.
I'm just so annoyed by how society works sometimes. I cannot take the hippocracy anymore. Ask yourself, what is really the difference between who buys the game, and who actually gets exposed to the content within it. At the end, youngsters will see the material one way or the other. What needs to happen is for society to realize that people in gengeral (old and young) are more expossed to violent/sexual media content today than in years past. If Government wants to take a "responsible" approach to what the young are exposed to, they should implement a curiculum in school where the difference between movies/videogames/media, and real life are explained. This could easily be inserted in social studies class in elementary, and in health calss later on. Parents should also be involved in explaining these issues to their kids. Lets face it, the young will get their hands on it one way or the other, or at least, they WILL be exposed to the content (friends, older brothers, arcades, etc) so why not teach them how to deal with it, instead of trying to hide it all from them. It worked for me. My parents did not hide any movie or videogame from me, but they made sure that I knew what a movie/videogame was and what was its purpose (to entertain through fictional actions that in real life can result in death, jail, disease etc.). I wonder if Osama Binladen, President Bush and the members of his administration, Prime Minister Tony Blair, and all the Muslim extremists played Contra, or a secret (only for the elite) version of Grand Theft Auto when they were kids, because they seem to be causing alot more deaths in the world than the Gothic clad kid I saw at the mall walking with a copy of Gears in his hands.
Well whats your definition of an organized government? Do you TRULY think Mexico has no rules, or any other country for that matter?
Rules are meaningless. They are just some writing on paper. But if you have people actually enforcing the rules, then rules have meaning. Here in the US, your not supposed to drink underage, but kids still do it (and a pretty good amont of kids). So do you think a country with rules is more "organized" or a contry that actually enforce rules?
Don't you just love when people tack a solution to some thing that has nothing to do with the problem? It's not the gaming industry's responsibility to make sure that young people don't buy inappropriate games, that's the *****ing parent's responsibility.
The US is *****ed up. All we can do now is hope and pray for something good, like going to war with Iraq, or giving all the power to the republican party.
I plan to get a job there as soon as college settles down. This is a good heads up +)
OK, all you idiots out there, here is the point of this article. Although some of you who say that banning sales of M-rated games to minors won't help, think about it a bit more. To all those who say that games have no responsibility over this issue and that it is the parents fault, think about it a bit more. There are some minors who do indeed go out and buy M-rated games by themselves. The responsibility is ON BOTH THE PARENTS AND THE GAMING INDUSTRY. ON BOTH. ON BOTH. Right now, the articles talking about gamestop trying to fix one end of the issue. This end is the easier end to handle, since it can be enforced easier. The other end, of bad parents, is very hard to handle, since your kid is your kid and not some slave of the gov. The parents makes the choice. The US gov. can't just go out and arrest/charge parents for choosing the choices they chose, or it would be a dictatorship. The only way to help parents make better choices would be to give them advice and hope they take it, consult them, have things/ads/people/etc convince them, or to have examples to persuade them.
IT is better to start fixing the problem and trying than critizing and not at all. At least they are making an effort, even if it is not very big. (there are thousands of other places to get games, etc)
There is no "fact" that says whether the blame is on parenting or gaming.
It is all well to educate one's kid(s) about stuff like violence, etc. but going out and deliberately buying a M-rated game for minors isn't really the best thing to do.
Teens and kids might get angry about this, but they won't know for sure whether it is fair or not until they mature enough. Even some adults aren't mature enough for some issues. Just look at all the so-called "flaming" comments and such. Some people just can't see "outside of the box". Some people just can't see and understand more sides of an issue. Some people just can't seem to comprehend that doing a little work is better than none at all. All of those "flamers" (EX. people who call people noobs, flame, criticize, procrastinate, etc)(Everyone was a "newbie" once, y'know) are just procrastinators and hypocrites.
What this article is saying is right.
( > . < )Go sit down and think about it. ( > . < )
I was saying that Gamestop and EB Games "start" registering customers into their systems, not that they already do that, Zelzko. That's what the "here's an idea" header was following.
To "q":
It doesn't matter if there is a law or isn't a law that dictates the *sale* of non-pornographic entertainment. The POINT is to cover their own (Gamestop's) asses when some punk kid decides to blame a video game for their own misconduct. The POINT is to place the blame of the game on the CONSUMER, not Gamestop or EB Games.
I know it's physically possible to buy GoW and then go give/sell it to a minor... but that is why i suggested the "contract" when purchasing such titles. If you hadn't noticed, this thread is about Gamestop/EB Games and their policy, so why would i be talking about anything else? Don't throw that around like i'm ignorant of what the issue is.
The questions on the questionnaire were not exactly as i would have worded them. I wouldn't put the "according to the law" parts, that's just something i threw in without rechecking.
The purpose of the contract that i suggested is solely for putting full responsibility of the game (with the consumer's approval and signature) onto the person that purchased the game (ie. parent) so that it doesn't come back to bite them in the ass. In no way does it restrict sales.
The *****ty thing is that we can't sell any RP (rating pending) reservations to minors. If we end up selling an RP reservation to a minor, and it becomes M, we still get fired. It's bull*****! So if I sell an reservation to a minor that I think will be T and it come out M, I get the boot, my manager gets the boot, and the District Manager gets a write up.
Don't get me wrong, I like the fact that we save face by not selling any M games to anyone without an ID, but the fact is, we now get penetrated through the trade-mans entrance over trying to get reservations!
Also, the call came in this week... not last week.
HEY (0_0), we are not discussing the "Point" of this article, we are giving opinions. I think we all understand what the point is. But thank you anyway Captain obvious. I guess you are right though, lets just come up with a thousand laws and rules for the retailers, I'm sure once we do that, the kids will definately, without a doubt, absolutely not be exposed to the content. Yeah, lets protect them that way. I'm sure that when little Joe (who got Grand theft Auto from his 18yr old brother's game collection) shows litlle Johnny his GTA on PSP, little Johny will cover his eyes and ears, run away, and report him to the teacher. By the way, if a kid buys a game rated M, lets fire the employees, give the parents a fine, and tell poor little Johnny that he did not break the law, and that any of his transgressions are not his fault, but that of his parents and the salesperson. Lets blame everything on other people except the buying party (the kid). I kind of like this way of civil law. Hopefully it really kicks off, and I could buy real granades and machineguns, and when the FBI comes to my house, I'll blame it on the thug that sold me those items, and on my parents.
Re. xCirusx
I understand your frustration. After finally getting a job, and losing it to some petty issue is really bad. Well, although the treatment and details of this issue is rather rough, this is how the law works. "Sacrifices" are made to benefit what and who others think is right, sometimes regardless of what some others might think. This is how things work. Balance. Something goes up, while something goes down.
In this case, jobs are being endangered while the cause is for children. I'm not going to comment which one is better to support, since both sides is equal. It just depends what side one is at.
This just creates endless arguments.
Apparently, "Just some guy" did not fully read my comment....... and he is just another so-called "flamer"
I never said a thousand laws. I did not state that the blame is solely on gaming and parents, just mostly.
Actually, if you look closer, the "opinions" are talking about THE POINT of the article, sheesh.
I also never said that this was the "only" way.
Your excessive exaggeration and sacasm makes me laugh -> :sacasm:
Have you gone to english class?
OK, jk, But really, are you just some "itty-bitty" immature 10 year old, kid? you sure seem like it. (sorry if you somehow feel offended) I can already imagine your red face right now bursting with frustation. ~~
I already know that you will just post another unreasonable comment about this comment and so on. GO ON, just do it. ~fool~
The ESRB has no right to exist. Kids who are 14-15-16 and buy their own games have every right to buy. No license saying you are 17; just $60 should get you in.
As for the policy, I don't work in the games business, but I'm so damn glad I work for a small business.
yo, just stop the flame war already. We understand both of your points. i think that the government is trying to lower crime by doing this. this is good
well if not selling a game to a minor is going to help the crime go down you got to look at who is causing the crimes in the first place. Are the middle class and up kids that can afford a psp living in the suberbs casuing these crimes just becasue they threw a granade at an alien or shot someone with a pistol. Or is it the kids that are too poor to afford psp's and ps3 and such that living in "getto" nieghborhoods affecting the rise of crime becasue they saw this growing up and what was around them. Now im probally wrong and there shoudlnt be a fuss over it but my opinion is that video games are the last in my book to start crime.
its a parents job to tell kids what they cant do. Not gamestops job. if i go into a store i should be able to buy whatever i want to. if my parents dont want me to have an M rated game then they dont have to let me buy it and play it.
Don't get him too riled up now XD. He'll try to impersonate you by making idiotic posts under your name (because it's unregistered) and try to discredit you that way. There are always going to be people like him... and just arguing over and over with them won't really get through to them, because they don't want to learn... they just want to argue.
Good luck!
This is good news nonetheless.
If the parents buy the game then give it to the kid, then it's the parent's problem as stated above in many posts.
To get the store's hand even more clean, force the employee to do similar to what police do. If he sees that the kid is clearly underage and is with the parent, then have them say, "Sir/Ma'am, you do realize this game is rated M and is not suitable for your kid if he should play it."
Bam. clean.
If you're over 21 and buy someone under 21 some beer or wine, etc. then it's already the law to bust both. The minor gets busted for drinking underage, and the adult gets busted for distributing to a minor. So videogames, porn, cigarettes and gambling should all be categorized the same. This is just one step towards enforcing the law. Parents can still buy them these games, but that's on their heads.
Do you have any kids? If you did, you wouldn't say anything like this. ESRB exist so that parents know the content of each game, and decide whats best for their children.
If they went by your anology, this means that any kid who has money for a porno movie can get one because they have the money for it.
Last week I went to Wall-mart to pick up a copy of Lost Planet and I saw 2 kids with their dad, who wanted to buy Jaws. Afcourse it was rated M but their dad didn't know what it stood for and they were about to buy it. I asked them if I can give him an advice, and I told him about the content of the game and why he shouldn't buy it for his little kid. He thanked me, and decided to buy a rated E game for him. If ESRB didn't exist, there will be countless # of kids who play games beyond their age demographic.
You might not think its okay to have the ratings, but me, older gamers, and all parents sure appreciate the help.
Games are just being excuses by people that commit these crimes because they are in need of a scapegoat, so they place blame on their "role model" example. First of all, if your model example comes from a video game... you have issues in the first place.
i'm getting so f****ng tired of this. its a damn video game! soon there will be no games for atleast for the 360 and PS3 that any ''minor'' can buy. all the top games are M rated. i'm wonderin why we are even able to call this a damn free country.GTA is a popular game, many people will play it. if some1 kills some1 else and they happened to play a violent game its all on the game creators and all that Bull****. so good luck for every1 17 and under won't be able to go to game stores and buy a game themselves any more. gotta have their peeps with them
Well put! I couldn't have put it in better perspective!
I totally agree with Gamestop covering their own asses as well with enforcing this into their store policy. The only people arguing for the "rights of video games" are the people that are too young to buy adult rated games anyways. Since when do the rights of video games come before the rights of humans?
soon their will be no gmaes for minors to buy unless of course they have a ds or nintendo system
what do they expect the poor kids to do with their system :(
A child should not be given liberty to any game he wants, looks are deceiving. Just because a child looks fine does not mean he comes from an environment where he won't actually do the deeds in games. never forget Columbine, the living doom.
Calm down, slick... and use real words. Not all the best games have a Mature rating KillR_7. YOU just like Mature rated games more, so you personally feel they are better. It's true that there are popular games like GTA that happen to carry the M rating, but that doesn't mean everybody should have the right to own it. Just think about the laws on the distribution and contribution of alcohol, minors aren't allowed to drink or be in the possession of alcoholic beverages, but you don't see people like you cursing and throwing fits because minors can't purchase alcohol legally.
If you're questioning what it MEANS to be in a free country, then i think you need to find reality. Being a free country doesn't entitle you do have the right to do whatever the hell you want to, whenever you feel like it. Read the Declaration of Independence... where does it say minors have the right to overthrow the laws of the government because they wanna do what the adults are allowed to do. If you don't like it, move... nobody is keeping you here, move to a country that supposedly "allows minors" to buy anything they want.
Oh, and just so you know... the mature rating is ages 17+, not 18+. You want to know why minors like you shouldn't buy M rated games? Just read the way you type and how you act in your words. Completely immature.
You're definitely a good role model. Just like all those other drug dealers that get people hooked on crack and resell alcohol to minors. I pray for the better judgment of your offspring when little life choices like the ones that you face are met with wiser decisions on their part.
Sometimes the best example is noticing the wrong in somebody else's bad example. You must be a necessary role, so keep up the bad work!
I'm an Assistant Manager at Gamestop. The worst part about this new policy is that my Store Manager and I can basically be fired while on our lunch break. They seem to think we have ultimate control over our associates. It's just another reason why I don't want to work there anymore.
This is definitely a good direction to move in as long as it doesn't become a legal issue. Minors playing violent video games is certainly not the same as minors smoking cigarettes or drinking underage and I'm completely against the idea of it ever being made illegal. The rate of kids actually going out and mimicking these games is incredibly low, there are so many other factors to consider. If a parent feels his 15-year-old is mature enough to handle GOW, then he/she should have every right to play it. Unfortunately there are some people out there well into their twenties who I don't think are mature enough to handle certain video games.. I won't mention any names but I've noticed a few of them posting around here..
To end this on a better note, a friend of mine who's 25 was actually questioned about his age as he bought an M-rated game. Then again he sort of does look 13. It was pretty damn funny though.
Just because you and your friends were a bunch of idiots when you were younger doesn't mean that others cant be mature at a young age. Whats wrong with parents that have mature kids giving them a little more freedom and choice than other kids might receive? If I was 12 years old, had a 150 IQ and always made excellent choices then what is wrong with my parent letting me see a PG-13 title? Its a parent responsibility to know what there kid is doing and were they are doing it, not stores and government. Its not right to pass laws and such that constrain everyone just because a few idiots are not responsible. Your the worst kind of person on earth IMO. Your the type that would choose safety over freedom. Rules over responsibility and so-on.
Get Bent
I hope you joking. Going to Iraq was not a good thing and Giving all power to the republicans would be horrible.
Your also an idiot. Censorship is not the answer. It is a violation of the U.S. Constitution and if you don't believe in what the Constitution represents then please kindly get the Frick out of this country. We don't need any more of your fascist BS.
The ESRB is there to educate, not make the decisions for parents. I think it was nice of you to tell him what was in it and what the rating meant but for you to tell him not to purchase it was a BS fascist move. You should have gave him the info and then left the decision up to him based on what he knows his kid could handle. Age demographics and ratings are good tools or "guidelines" but real parenting and decision making should come into play somewhere. Some kids can handle more than others and its up to the parents to determine that for there kids.
Censorship is wrong. Banning things is never the answer and it is a unconstitutiona l. Don't be a fascist and just be a good parent.
Thats fascist Bull*****. Your a moron.
Your a jackass. Drugs and Porno are not the same as Video Games and Movies. Censorship is wrong, protecting your children from bodily harm is not.
Repeat aster me: Drugs and Games are not the Same.
Your a dork.
Your a fricking retard. The End
no.... really?! Read my post and try to understand it before posting your idiotic comments again. Where did a say that drugs and games are alike, hmm? I was referring to the actions he took, not the "merchandise" itself nimrod!
You can just go "Repeat aster" yourself, because you don't apparently understand the English language enough to realize what i said.
The way you throw around violations to the Constitution, you'd think you actually know what it DOES mean. Before you suggest others to abide by what you think the Constitution means, why don't you point out exactly where in the Constitution that censorship isn't allowed.
You should leave the country because you apparently don't get what the Constitution really means. I bet you haven't even read it! Just repeating what you heard from some other jokers that says this kind of idiocy.
you must be the same dude as ihateyou, mister censorship is wrong. Show me where censorship and banning merchandise is against unconstitutiona l. This is a free country, and they have the right to ban whatever the hell they want to!
Dude, you need to stop this crap. Where in his post is he saying that video games and movies are the same as drugs, but most porn IS in the movie area (btw, pornography isn't restricted to smut and sex).
Protecting children from MENTAL harm is just as needed as protection from bodily harm. Censorship is our given right, and if you don't like it... move to another country that let's you do whatever you want all the time. I have to warn you that it'll be chaos over there.
Thng is though, what about buying games online? Im only 16, but regulary buy 18+ rated games on amazon etc, which is easy. And I dont know how exactly they can stop me from doing that.
you know what, you are just some dumb-***8 loser. First of all, i don't see censorship anywhere in (0_0)'s comment Second, I completely agree with what Koru-Koru's comment says. I don't think i could have worded it better.
Re. Chris
You do have your point.
Like i said earlier in this post, there are indeed thousands of other ways to purchase M-rated games and such. At least Gamestop is putting in an effort. A little is better than none at all. It is true that minors can still get games online, but that is a whole different issue about the limits and freedoms of the internet. (I'm not comment against you)
eehh yea and its a little scary i mean my boss has been down my back a bit more now because i didnt think i would have to card a older guy for resident evil.......imean the rules are the rules but i thought for some cases which you can point out that u could brush off
yea but the fact that some parents are strict with what the games contain is an issue. a number of times after explaining what the mature rating was for in the game the parent then stated that the game was not going to be baught.
uno they do something similar to your idea at gamecrazy my boss said or mayb it was that one store but he said every time someone baught something they input information into the computer
actually at gamestop/eb games we demand an adult be present with a minor for them to trade in or return games for the sake that they have to know what they are doing. an example is a co-worker of mine didnt realize the child was alone and simply traded in a game, the following day the parent came in and needed to re-take in the game because the kid took his friends game and used the money for another game for himself to keep
......i never noticed but does the computer display the ratings? i know my stores one does not for the new releases so imean yea we are blind to it
yea its good news but its also bad for those who are forgetful and imean i know because i have been there but there are days where u work so long and its so busy that u might just forget to card a single persona nd if and when that day comes and your higher up is there then you are screwed
yea man i totally understand but then again my asst and manager now only put certain people on register in order to prevent something from happening along those lines.......this is due to our massive cash rap and the games having to be on the walls and all......but truthfully unless ur store is being watched for a particular reason do u think we are examined 24/7? imean if u are cool wit ur manager and ur asst manager and they dont say anything when u dont card a man who is obviously 30+ in age do u think there is a remote possibility we can get caught?
see now thats the thing i like to hear.... who can get blamed for an online purchase......do u know how easy it is for anyone to take a parents credit card for use. imean we in stores get in trouble so imean its unfair to us if nothing goes on there although not much can be done
It was a typo and there is no edit button so sue me.
" You're definitely a good role model. Just like all those other drug dealers that get people hooked on crack and resell alcohol to minors."
It NOT just like it BECAUSE those thing are not the same. I think you are the one who is a NIMROD. Getting a minor a inappropriate video game is NOT the same as giving them something that is illegal and can hurt him.
The First Amendment of the United States Constitution protects the right to freedom of religion and freedom of expression from government interference. If they were to censor video games that would be infringing on the Game Developers essential right to freedom of expression and therefor is unconstitutiona l. I never said this violated MY RIGHTS, just that it was in violation of the U.S. Constitution which in-fact it is.
The First Amendment of the United States Constitution protects the right to freedom of religion and freedom of expression from government interference. If they were to censor video games that would be infringing on the Game Developers essential right to freedom of expression and therefor is unconstitutiona l. I never said this violated MY RIGHTS, just that it was in violation of the U.S. Constitution which in-fact it is. A free country means they CAN'T ban whatever they want.
"So videogames, porn, cigarettes and gambling should all be categorized the same."
Thats were. Until they prove that playing violent video games harms them in any way they have no grounds to censor it. You have the right to censor thing YOUR kids want to see but censorship by the government is in-fact a violation of the 1st Amendment.
don't butcher my statements without understanding the context. I wasn't comparing video games to drugs or any of the sort. I was comparing Samaonsuke to drug dealers and the such.
You are looking so hard to find wrongs in my statements but you aren't looking hard enough if you only find something such as that.
You are pathetic
do you give up?
This is NOT censoring what game developers can or can't have in their video games. This is censoring MINORS!!! Get it through your thick skull! Not censoring the market, only censoring minors. Which if you hadn't noticed is NOT against the Constitution.
they are NOT CENSORING VIDEO GAMES!!!!!!
They are censoring minors FROM "mature rated" video games. How hard is that to understand?
If they WERE to censor what can or can't be made and sold in the United States, that WOULD be contradicting the U.S. Constitution.... but guess what... that's NOT the case here.
A free country DOES mean they can ban whatever they choose to. Remember the Prohibition of alcohol from your history classes? Gee.. hmm..... what did they ban?? You tell me, and it was 100% in the rights for them to do so.
I don't think they should be categorized as the same, but only "treated" the same way as other things that minors can't get their hands on. There's a reason for things being out of the reach of minors. Think about that for a minute. Why are things limited to adults? Maybe because of maturity?
Now, what are they trying to keep out of minors' grip? OMG, it just so happens to be Mature rated games!! Keeping Mature rated games out of the hands of the Immature.... seems pretty simple logic to me Mr. ihateyou.
The 1st Amendment covers minors also. Parents have rule over their kids but in this respect the government does not. Also it doesn't matter the intent, censoring the artists material is still unconstitutiona l. If I am wrong then please, point out tom me why all of these types of legislations have been struck down.
Censorship doesn't have to be of it's content exclusively. Passing a law that would stop something from being shown, no matter to whom is still censorship. THEY ARE censoring games, the intent does not matter if this is the end result. Again I ask you, if I am wrong about the legal implications then WHY does every bill of this nature pass and then get torn up when it reaches one of the higher court systems?
I agree.. to an extent. To be honest I only rant on here when I am tired so I may come across as narrow minded or angry. I still believe in just about everything that I have said but I forgot to say one thing. I do agree with some of your points and think we should keep this type of stuff out of the hands of children(under 16) but I just don't think it should be a law. It is not right for the government to put any restriction/ban on expressive material. If I ever have kids, believe me the ratings will come in handy but I will be responsible for what my kid plays and not the government.
i explained why the "Games as Porn" was struck down. It was in direct conflict of the 1st Amendment, that's where you are correct. Where you're not correct is why is it contradictory to the first Amendment.
The "Games as Porn" was extremely vague and basically stated that if a video game wasn't made for educational purposes, it was considered as pornography. That is why it was cast out in every state. It was restricting the sale demographically , giving one judge in a state to override and declare even an E rated game as pornography based on that one judge's conclusion about the game.
I agree that censoring the artist
is unconstitutiona l. But that's not the issue that they were trying to fix.
Your argument about the the 1st Amendment covering minors as well as adults is correct. But you need to understand that the minor isn't "creating" the Mature rated games. They are the consumer, and thus are susceptible (by law) to the restrictions placed on the merchandise.
If a minor creates a violent, gory, openly sexual, video game... ok then! So what? They have the right to do so under the 1st Amendment... but if that minor tries to sell it on the market. The game becomes a consumer product, and that product doesn't have rights of its own. It's just a marketable item that can be purchased. This is where the law comes into place.
The rights of the community (State's Rights) or the right to make restrictions on products being marketed in the United States are not below the "rights" of that product. The state and the United States are ABOVE that product, and aren't susceptible to being overridden by a mere marketable item.
This is why there are laws that prohibit the sale of drugs. You can't just go into a pharmacy and demand you be able to purchase prescription drugs without a doctor's prescription now can you? There HAVE to be rules on marketable items in the country or else the market would become corrupted and all hell will break loose.
I REALLY don't know what i have to say to get through to you... I think you believe in "freedom for freedom's sake" instead of "freedom for everybody". Freedom for everybody means that people have the right to not have their freedom taken away. Where freedom for the sake of freedom would allow someone to be able to legally take away the freedom of another person because they have the right to.
We can continue our discussion like adults, so no more name calling with each other and throwing around those grouping names "like fascist" unless you or I can point out exactly in the correct context of the statements we make where we make a statement to coincides with the group's ideology, agreed? Name calling only brings up aggression and anger doesn't solve anything, it just makes one look childish.
Have you ever seen the "adult section" of a movie store? It's meant for minors to stay out and not be able to browse products that aren't meant for them. It isn't restricting the merchandise from being seen by the consumer, it's being restricted from the ones who aren't ALLOWED to be the consumer.
This is exactly what is trying to be done with Mature rated video games. Just putting it in another section that minors can't browse them. Do you think minors should be allowed to walk into liquor stores even though they are underage and can't purchase alcohol?
I explained in a few other posts why the bill has been shut down every state it tries to get passed in. I'll let you go read them if you haven't already.
when it's late at night or i'm hungry, i get aggravated easier too, so don't stress over it.
There are many parents that don't realize that games they purchase for their kids aren't intended for their age group. That's why i think placing the Mature rated games in a section labeled "Adults Only" or something for games that are only to be played by the mature of mind will be a great help to the parents that don't think twice about what their kids want them to buy.
This way, minors can't browse in the store in the Mature section without being accompanied by an adult. This way, the parents KNOW they're in a mature gaming section and that these games aren't intended for their children.
What your talking about is Apples and Oranges and we will never agree. We simply look at things differently. When I look at what you wrote it's obvious that you are seeing the same exact fact but in a different context(?). My interpretation of the Constitution tells me that as long as the product doesn't hurt anyone then it is protected because having on the shelf is part of the creators freedom of expression. If people were to be aloud to say whatever they want but just not in public and only in designated areas then you wouldn't be able to protest, give your opinions on public broadcast and so-on. Thats not freedom. If they prove that Violent Video Games do hurt the well fare of minors then and only then would there be grounds to put restrictions on it. At the end of the day we do have similar and logical thinking but we just have very different views (if that makes sense). I still would like you to respond on the point I raised about the various game related bills being booted though. I am glad we can continue are debate in a civilized manner. I was being an ass earlier.
I agree to a point but there is no proof that it does hurt minors so how can you justify putting restrictions on it. Again, I think the retailers doing so is a good thing but I don't see how they can make it law. This would set a legal president and they would start doing this with everything from music, to movies, and then even some types of museum art. I think this is a slippery slope.
What if they made a law were retailers had to put up signs about the various ratings, inform parents that come in, and include fliers detailing the rating system and how to use parental controls on the various consoles? Would that help satisfy people on your side of the debate? That compromise would work for me.
XD I think me might be turning into people long the lines of me being sorta like Bill O'Reilly and you sorta like Geraldo Rivera hahaha.
Agree to disagree and simply discuss the issue from both sides of the coin. Sounds good with me.
Well, it's already being done with movies. You can't purchase R rated movies or Adult rated movies or even Unrated movies unless you're 17 or 18, can't remember which one XD.
i was assuming that we were talking about Gamestop's policy. If all stores chose to barrier off a Mature section for the games not intended for minors in their store policy, that'd be the best option. But in cases like Wal-Mart, i can't see them doing that... they have it behind protective glass meaning you can only see the front of the case and not look at the contents on the back, it's better than nothing though.
Regarding having proof that mature situations in video games not causing harm; I'm not sure if it's possible to use the scientific method or a research study to find out if they even have an effect at all on somebody. How is it even testable? I think we can agree that every type of sensory input affects the human mind. Thus rolling over to video games affecting the human mind in one way or another. What changes that happen in the mind are solely dependant on how the content is perceived by the viewer. If the experience and maturity level of the viewer can't handle or the information is misunderstood by the viewer, there is a bit of corruption that has taken place in their mind.
I posted a link on that other topic that we're talking on about how children are more susceptible to entertainment affecting their better judgment and reasoning than would a mature adult would be affected by the same scenario. Adults tend to use logic and reasoning above whatever stimulates them as entertainment. There have been thousands of studies that support this, and this is what i'm applying to this case.
This is probably the only proof of how minors are more susceptible to violence in movies and games as well as having to make adult choices in games. Because as of today, scientists haven't figured out a way to physically test the scenario using the scientific method, and that's why it probably can't be proven (much like countless other things the scientific method can't prove or not prove).
I think the proof you're looking for isn't possible to be found. Scientists use a limited scope method to determine what's real or not real, so what they might prove real is only extremely limited to finding truth in the grand view of things. There's a lot out there that is true, but can't be found true by the method they use.
I agree that this is a very good thing to do. But i'm not entirely sure that this will be enough for justifiable cause. For example, that one sting operation on the other topic, some gaming stores sell mature rated games to minors regardless.
The signs wouldn't prevent the sale there. But remember that contract thing that i suggested a few comments up? I think making the consumer fill out that paper (policy, not law) would help reduce the problem a little extra (with the signs put up as well). Maybe even add in the query to register their birth date. I know that they will most likely lie about it, but this is all to protect the store from idiotic kids that blame the game and the developers for their own actions. They have a legal document that says the child took it on their own accord and they said that their age is old enough to be responsible for the entire matter.
These things we are suggesting about the signs and the contract might help more or less than we anticipate... maybe they should have a test store do these things to see what is effective?
X rated material is illegal to sell to miners but rated R movies are not. Movie ratings are voluntary just like games and they are not currently regulated or enforced through law. Most if not all stores enforce the ratings for both movies and games so I really don't see how this law would even make a difference. The three ways kids get a hold of these games are: 1) Stupid store clerk doesn't care. 2) Parents don't pay attention or care. 3) kid has friend/adult buy it for him. All these could and probably would still happen with these laws in place. The real kicker is that when they successfully get a hold of these games they have to play them in their house so if the parents were paying attention then they wouldn't get away with it anyway. Now of course I am sure you could think of a scenario were the kid could get away with it even with great parents but that just proves another one of my points. No matter what you do kids will always find a way to get what they want. Does that mean we should just hand it to them? NO, of course not but rather than spending tax payers money to create these unenforceable laws I think they should spend there time/money educating the parents. Also I still believe these laws to be unconstitutiona l.
I don't want to have to search all over for it so could you tell me more about this registry your presupposing?
taxpayers dollars have been spent on things a lot stupider than trying to keep minors from buying mature rated video games, i'm sure XD.
Gamestop and EB Games should register customers into their systems. When a customer buys a game from them, make that customer fill out a one-time questionnaire that asks the questions "Do you take full responsibility for whomever views or plays these games and take into account the suggested maturity rating of age for these games?" and "Do you take full responsibility if and when a minor plays your purchased games when the ESRB rating is higher than the depicted age is recommended?"
This one-time questionnaire will be filed in their store database (under the customer's name, address, and phone number, and birth date). This will hopefully make the purchaser take a higher responsibility for whoever plays their games, because if a minor claims that the direct cause of their insidious actions were depicted in a video game that they played over at the purchaser's house... more blame will be directed towards the purchaser because he signed the questionnaire saying he'd/she'd take responsibility instead of the company that sold the game.
That is basically what i was proposing.
Also, adding the signs in front of a Mature rated section of games (in this case, let's say minors are allowed to browse these games) will inform the people that browse them that those games aren't intended for minors and there is a severe advisory to not allow minors to play them.
That sounds good. They could even tie your Edge member card to this so that you would just slide it and be on your way. I am still against any government involvement in these matters but I could compromise and live with something like this.
u Can sell cd's to kids y not video games. the gang members out there don't kill cause of games, but cause they do not have a father/mother figure around, not games!!! why are you trying to decide our kids's game play habit's??
So what if the government is "unorganized"? Being able to buy M (or even AO) rated titles underage would be awesome! It's not like my parents care much about ESRB ratings though...
We live in a hippocracy. Get used to it.
You people are comparing video games to drugs which right there makes me feel sick by the amount of stupidity/ignorance that goes along with that also if your going to make a post take the time to at least get your facts and grammar straight or just don't post at all.
Ok now on to the point, why do people insist that violent video game's are evil and shouldn't be sold to people under 17, Hell i am only 15 years old and i am more mature than most of the people that are the golden age and up online by a longshot its not even comparable. Age doesn't always= maturity it does have a strong impact on it usually but there is another thing people are completely disregarding there are at least 100 million gamers out of that 100 mil isn't it logical to assume that there are crazy people in that group ?
It's not that more games are affecting people or causing "video game related deaths". If you look into these cases the kid is almost always emotionally disturbed or had been abused in some way. I don't know about you but i am pretty sure being abused would make me a lot more crazy than pixelated sex in the hot coffee mod or blowing off some aliens head in halo ever could. I bet your wondering why then people say its because of games money its that simple the videogame industry is loaded with cash and certain greedy lawyers *cough Jack Thompson* cough* take advantage of misinformed adults and manipulate them into believeing that video games are the devil, just like rap was the devil, and just like metal was the devil its all a bunch of bull***** that lawyers use to profit off the ignorant get a f%$king brain you idiots, and what is really surprizing me is that there are older long time gamers agreeing with these worthless sh1t's, let me ask you did you ever play any of the mortal kombat series ? did it make you run up to random people and rip their spines out etc all of you need to look back to your roots and think about what you would have thought of this, instead of posting stupid and ill thought out remark's on how we are so stupid and misinformed
Thats why i went to Target to get my copy of Rainbow Six Vegas the clerk said do you have an ID as i was about to get it he said im joking i was like sweet. ^_^
You suck, it's just a game, not porn.