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David Jaffe: On-disc DLC doesn't matter if you enjoyed the game

Posted Mar 28, 2011 at 10:43AM EST by Karl B.

Listed in: News Tags: David Jaffe

jaffe

David Jaffe has an interesting take on the issue of on-disc downloadable content. See, some companies have taken to locking on-disc content so that they can release -- and sometimes even sell -- unlock codes later on. A number of gamers have cried foul over this practice, but Jaffe thinks it should't really matter that much if they enjoyed the original game in the first place.

Here's an excerpt of a Jaffe interview with MaxConsole:

Discussing gamers 'frustrations' of DLC on disc, Jaffe provided an interesting viewpoint. He noted that it shouldn’t really matter if the DLC is on the disc, so long as the gamer has been totally satisfied form the moment they purchased the game. Drawing on a third party example, he produced an interesting metaphor between DLC and McDonalds. For example, you wouldn’t walk into McDonalds and get annoyed that you paid for a Big Mac and then see even more burgers on the grill. This is because you would be happy with the Big Mac and the value it represents.

Essentially, if you are happy with your initial purchase, then it shouldn’t matter how the DLC gets to gamers. There are many benefits of it being on the disc such as lower costs. Again, Jaffe was very keen to stress that the priority is customer satisfaction from the START of their purchase.

Remember, it's an opinion, so the Twisted Metal creator isn't necessarily wrong. As for me, I think the metaphor just doesn't apply. Sticking to the Big Mac analogy, gamers arent being annoyed by seeing all the other Big Macs on the grill. They don't like the fact that they aready paid for the Big Mac in full but they're being kept from eating the second patty.

Also, how can you stay happy with the original purchase when you find out that you paid full price for what is essentially a gimped version of the game? The fact that the DLC is on disc but you're being kept from accessing it should make a big difference if it's a full priced game.

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I believe the only time you should pay for DLC is when it was developed AFTER the ship date of the game. If there was time to burn it onto the game disc, then it should be included with the original purchase, not trickled out to generate more revenue from my original purchase.

That's like charging me extra for ketchup on my burger, and they lift the patty to show you the ketchup was already there, to continue the McDonalds analogy

+1 # RE: RE: RE: David Jaffe: On-disc DLC doesn't matter if you enjoyed the game — Kaden 2011-03-29 03:21

Quoting TallicDeth:

I believe the only time you should pay for DLC is when it was developed AFTER the ship date of the game. If there was time to burn it onto the game disc, then it should be included with the original purchase, not trickled out to generate more revenue from my original purchase.

That's like charging me extra for ketchup on my burger, and they lift the patty to show you the ketchup was already there, to continue the McDonalds analogy

You know whats funny, Mcdonalds now charges for ALL extra condiments on their sandwiches, Lol.

+6 # RE: David Jaffe: On-disc DLC doesn't matter if you enjoyed the game — Matthew0393 2011-03-28 12:13

First off trying to sell me something that I already paid for when I bought the disk is simply wrong and I would think illegal, when I buy the disk all that is on it is mine.

-2 # RE: David Jaffe: On-disc DLC doesn't matter if you enjoyed the game — luckymouse 2011-03-28 12:28

I don't know... Thinking about it, having the DLC on the disc or not doesn't really matter.

You will have to pay for that content one way or another. Having it on the disc however, might make the content a wee bit cheaper for you.

See, if you have to download a 700MB expansion for your game, this 700MB will take up bandwidth, and this bandwidth will have to be paid by someone. Because of these bandwidth costs, the price of the DLC pack will, stated by some economic rules, rise. This means that having to download the DLC instead of an unlocker might make your DLC more expensive in the long run.

Tl:Dr
Developers will get you to pay for that DLC, whether its on the disc or waiting on the servers for your download, you are going to pay for it, one way or another.

Whining about it, trying to sue people for it, will only effect GAMERS in a negative way in the long run.
Although if you ask me, DLC as a whole as already had a way too negative effect on the games industry...

# RE: RE: David Jaffe: On-disc DLC doesn't matter if you enjoyed the game — Tigerblood 2011-03-28 13:19

your "tl:dr" section is just as long as the other section... :) just saying

# RE: RE: RE: David Jaffe: On-disc DLC doesn't matter if you enjoyed the game — luckymouse 2011-03-28 14:39

Yeah, noticed it after posting

+3 # Ummmm — Analogy What? 2011-03-28 12:52

He's totally got it wrong. The other burgers would represent various games for that platform... not DLC for a game.

If you were to go to McDonalds, ordered and paid for a Happy Meal... only to find out that the Fries in the box aren't included until a month down the line, and you have to pay an extra $1 for it, that would be the proper analogy.

+2 # ... — SeRosiS 2011-03-28 14:06

I equate it to ordering a meal then having to pay for the condiments separately.

# RE: ... — UltimaXX 2011-03-28 19:24

DAMN YOU KFC, I'M NOT PAYING 20p FOR THE MAYONNAISE.

Okay, fine. I am. But you're all bastards. The ketchup's free but not the mayo? Ugh!

# .. — omarwhy 2011-03-29 12:16

The only problem with that is they don't put the ketchup in the bag to take home, and then charge you if you decide to use it after your purchase has already been paid and you have already made it to the comfortable table and seat in which you sit to eat your high caloric meal.

+2 # RE: David Jaffe: On-disc DLC doesn't matter if you enjoyed the game — Tigerblood 2011-03-28 13:18

The problem I have with on-disc DLC is simply that it takes up room. The original point of DLC was to give more to the gamer that could not be fit on the disc. DVD9s are not that big, but when a company uses some of the space instead of filling it for the original, it is foolish. I might be ok with blu-ray games because of the amount of space, but games are not getting any smaller these days.

+1 # RE: David Jaffe: On-disc DLC doesn't matter if you enjoyed the game — AssassinXCV 2011-03-28 13:36

So basically, if you buy a car from a dealership, and after you pay for it, they secretly remove the engine, you shouldn't be mad, since you were happy with the initial purchase; but not with what came after.

# RE: RE: David Jaffe: On-disc DLC doesn't matter if you enjoyed the game — Lakmir 2011-03-28 13:49

It's more like you paid for the car, but it came with a stereo that doesn't work until you've dropped some extra money into the dealer's coffers. The car still functions without the stereo, but it doesn't feel like a complete package.

+1 # RE: David Jaffe: On-disc DLC doesn't matter if you enjoyed the game — Mentality 2011-03-28 14:02

If you ask me, DOWNLOADABLE content should be DOWNLOADED that is the idea in the name of it. Why put additional content you would have liked in the game on the disc during the development process when you could just as easily make a higher quality game by adding it there and then into the game and makin your customers that EXTRA bit happier from start to finish? Seems like by putting it on the disc they are just rubbing it in your face.

# RE: David Jaffe: On-disc DLC doesn't matter if you enjoyed the game — Techni 2011-03-28 14:12

Quote:

For example, you wouldn’t walk into McDonalds and get annoyed that you paid for a Big Mac and then see even more burgers on the grill. This is because you would be happy with the Big Mac and the value it represents.

Except its not like that.
Its more like having to pay extra to each the ketchup thats already in your big mac.

# RE: RE: David Jaffe: On-disc DLC doesn't matter if you enjoyed the game — Name Required 2011-03-28 21:10

there is no ketchup on a big mac to begin with

its mac sauce

+1 # Abuse — Cashcom 2011-03-28 14:31

So if i buy a brand new car, i would later on have to activate the AC or heater at my own expense?

I have not seen any reasonable price for quality DLCs except for Red Dead Redemption Undead Nightmare.

# RE: David Jaffe: On-disc DLC doesn't matter if you enjoyed the game — Dudeee7 2011-03-28 15:31

Ok, sheesh, this is how the analogy would work. Keep in mind that the devs are calling this bonus content. So the analogy would be that McDonalds says that the Big Mac comes with a third bonus patty but you can only eat the original 2 patties right now. When you buy the Bic Mac, it comes with all three patties but you can't eat the third until a month down the road and for an extra $1.

Sure, I'm happy with the Big Mac the way I ate it but I don't like that McD's transferred the burden of holding onto the third patty to me. Sure, it's cheaper for McD's to give it to me now instead of storing the extra patties but that's just being a tease.

# RE: David Jaffe: On-disc DLC doesn't matter if you enjoyed the game — chino11309687465 2011-03-28 15:50

DLC is suppose to be content developed after the game's release. If I choose to pay for it, it's because of the time and effort that went into it after my initial purchase. I don't want to pay extra for something that has been alerady been developed and would have enhanced the game from the moment I bought it. I feel like I am being milked for extra cash.

# RE: David Jaffe: On-disc DLC doesn't matter if you enjoyed the game — Walo 2011-03-28 16:08

On disc "DLC" is proof that the content was part of the game from the beginning. No matter how much they sugar coat it they can't deny that. On disc "DLC" is just an artificial way to raise the price of the game. Since publishers know that gamers won't pay more than $59.99 for a regular copy of the game, they just cut the game and there you go... fresh "DLC".

# RE: David Jaffe: On-disc DLC doesn't matter if you enjoyed the game — cimerians 2011-03-28 16:15

The mcdonalds example is not the same deal. Its really like buying a Big Mac and I only get to eat 75% of it. If I want the last bite I need to fork over another 50 cents so I get the whole content in my stomach or in my game. Screw Jaffe and his lame examples.

# RE: David Jaffe: On-disc DLC doesn't matter if you enjoyed the game — ctjk1982 2011-03-28 16:43

i like the idea of it going on disc for a few reasons.

1. if it goes to gamestop used you save money.
2. you don't have to wait for it to download.
3. same as 2 but if the online dlc is messed up during download you cannot used it as you'll get corrupted error message happen to me a few times already.
4. if your online account gets messed up (like gettingh banned for no reason Microsoft)you don't have to worry about the stuff you paid for already.

# CTJK you're wrong — Jack23 2011-03-28 16:56

Your points are wrong in many ways.For the first point you are totally wrong since the dlc will be linked to the account/console it was purchased on. 2 and 3 are just internet speed points. And for four if your banned its because of a reason and you could always play games you bought if your banned you just can't erase them since you can't redownload.

# RE: RE: David Jaffe: On-disc DLC doesn't matter if you enjoyed the game — 774 2011-03-28 17:32

Someone doesn't seem to get what this debate's about

# RE: David Jaffe: On-disc DLC doesn't matter if you enjoyed the game — PS360 Owner1 2011-03-28 16:54

I dislike his opinions, but since this article got a picture of him.. His face reminds me of pig (animal).

DLC's give more life to the game, Jaffe.

+1 # ughh — skeetz 2011-03-28 17:28

once again snes nes genesis n64 dreamcast psone best systems ever

# RE: David Jaffe: On-disc DLC doesn't matter if you enjoyed the game — CkGordon 2011-03-28 17:44

Thanks Jaffe... This statement just made me decide not to purchase the new twisted metal as planned and instead rent it. Fuck you and your disc locked content. You can fuck over ur customers all you want but I wont be one of them. Long time twisted metal fan here now very disappointed. My loyalty to one franchise however wont overide my belief that disc locked content is very bad business ethics and borderline theft. Just like DICE releasing >>>7

# RE: David Jaffe: On-disc DLC doesn't matter if you enjoyed the game — CkGordon 2011-03-28 17:45

Also: maybe Jaffe needs to stay the hell out of McDonalds for a while... he's getting pretty chubby.

# RE: David Jaffe: On-disc DLC doesn't matter if you enjoyed the game — DaMan1900 2011-03-28 18:12

i get a few things out of this:
1. Jaffe is an idiot
2. more reason to hate DLC
3. Twisted metal is going to have a ton of on disk DLC.
so what does this mean to him and me. Simply put i wont be purchasing your game Mrs err Mr Jaffe even tho i love twisted metal

>:|.

# McDonalds analogy — Blunted1 2011-03-28 18:55

Normally, I would mostly sort of respect David Jaffe.....
However, his analogy on McDonalds is totally off.

In his analogy, I buy a game and basically hear that they are producing a sequel.
I enjoy the burger I eat, thus the next one will probably taste as good.
As a consumer, I probably buy another. Unless I am full.

In a TRUE on-disc DLC analogy....
I go to McDonalds and order a Big Mac.
I am eating my Big Mac that I paid for, when suddenly I notice a LARGE FRIES at the bottom of my bag.
Hmmm... interesting, those look tasty!!
I go to pick them up and eat them, when suddenly a McDonalds employee grabs my shoulder and says "NOT SO FAST!".
"Those look good don't they??" he says.
Then before I can respond, he demands "That will be an additional $4, sir".

If McDonalds did this to it's customers, NO ONE would eat there.

If I want fries with my meal, I will order them thanks.
But don't sell me a Big Mac, call it an "Extra Value Meal" and then pawn off french fries and other "side dishes" as if they shouldn't be included with my meal in the first place.

No one is interested in paying $18 for a McDonalds "Value Meal" piece by piece, and likewise no one should be interested in paying $120 for a game that should be $40 tops.

If you want more money, sell higher value food/games.

# Only Time It is Acceptable — Blunted1 2011-03-28 19:00

Only Time It is Acceptable,
IS WHEN IT IS FREE!!!

If you want to time delay some content GREAT! Good on you.
On-disc DLC is a great way to do just that.

But when you want to charge twice for something that was developed well within the original cycle and happens to fit on the disc, and then you want to charge more on top of the $59.99 that was outrageous in the first place....
NO THANKS.

Try dropping your crappy B-rate game that scored less than 70 Meta, down to a $40.00 price tag and including a FULL Discs worth of material....
then I might feel like paying for DLC is a worthwhile endeavor.

# RE: David Jaffe: On-disc DLC doesn't matter if you enjoyed the game — magic175 2011-03-28 19:21

For me the issue is paying for DLC only to have them release a greatest hits version that includes everything for less than you paid for the stand alone game in the first place.

Fallout 3 + all DLC would cost about $120 if you got it on launch day, but now you can buy it new with everything for $30 new.

Dragon Age Origins + DLC, another round of $120+, now on sale for $47 new.

It's great to say you should be happy with what you get, but they can't expect people to not see that they are getting the very short end of the stick with the current pricing.

For myself, I've moved into either waiting to see if a GotY edition comes out 9-12 months after, or at least a price drop hits before buying because I'm tired of feeling like I get the short end of the stick.

# !!!!! — Alaba Baju 2011-03-28 20:06

Enough of the McDonalds analogy!!!!!!!
This DLC issue is one of the reasons I buy almost all my games used from eBay or Amazon, where they are very cheap, so I never feel cheated. I have never bought DLC and would probably only buy it if it is really worth it. You really wouldn't know if a game is worth the money until you have played it, and I would not like to pay a lot of money for a game and find out it is only really worth the price with a couple of more DLCs which I would have to pay for.

# RE: David Jaffe: On-disc DLC doesn't matter if you enjoyed the game — liight 2011-03-28 21:19

If you wanna be a douche and do that Jaffe then sell your game new at 30$ instead of the "standard" 60$ since they are sold "separately", they should be cheaper seperate unless bought together as a complete package.
You know, just how mcdonalds works, buy just the burger its cheaper than the meal. Instead of paying the price of the meal and still only getting the burger.

-1 # So what???? — PS3 fanboy 2011-03-28 21:33

I totally agree with Jaffee. Essentialy what difference is there between online dlc and on-disc locked content? None. No one complaints when xbox live or PSN has dlc up for purchase. Its the same thing with on-disc game content. If you didnt like game then most likely you wont buy dlc from live or PSN.

# RE: So what???? — Walo 2011-03-29 01:40

Don't complain if a couple of years from now they decide to actually divide the game in half or even more segments and make you pay more than once to complete the game. Because what's more rewarding than to see that "the princess is in another castle" but you have to pay extra to get there.

I would like to say I'm exaggerating, but the amount of tolerance from the gamers toward the on disc DLC issue makes me think that it will actually happen.

# ... — Mickle 2011-03-28 21:59

Well yeah if the game gets released to the same standards as before DLC was invented, meaning if you review a game you give a rating by what you paid for and not with patches and content added, i mean i'm sure some of these old games that got 98% could be polished up to get 100% but it's what initially comes out the developers door that should count, but now if you get a bad game developers just shrug their shoulders and say download this patch and it'll make it good. So if the game starts off as good as it can be then the extra DLC's just a nice bonus.

# --- — TheJoker 2011-03-28 22:27

if the dlc is already on the disc. then, we shouldnt have to pay to use it...

# RE: David Jaffe: On-disc DLC doesn't matter if you enjoyed the game — NakedFaerie 2011-03-28 22:31

Its in the name DLC DOWNLOAD CONTENT.
It SHOULDN'T be on the disc and called DLC.
DLC comes SEPARATE AFTER the game is finished and sold.
They just suck bigtime if they want you to pay for something you already have.

# o...k.... — blinxRED 2011-03-28 22:31

So according to his dumb ass, If i have sex with a hot chick, and she gives me AIDS, i shouldn't care because i liked the sex??

# RE: David Jaffe: On-disc DLC doesn't matter if you enjoyed the game — Frostman 2011-03-28 22:48

If they actually cared about their customers they wouldn't try to scam them.

# weird — booya 2011-03-28 22:52

there is no such thing as "on-disk dlc" it's called dlc cos its not on the disc. this is a stupid news. and dlc's were made to earn more money

# dlc on disk=more money to devs — pspg0 2011-03-28 23:31

that way they don't have to host big dlc files on the servers and pay up to Sony or however is done..

# RE: David Jaffe: On-disc DLC doesn't matter if you enjoyed the game — elk 2011-03-28 23:46

If the content is on the disc, then it was ready in time for launch. Selling content that was ready at launch is not ethical because it isn't "extra" content at all. It isn't an add-on for the game, but part of the game itself. I don't want to pay for something that was part of development, because then the for-profit "extra content" is INTENTIONAL.

It isn't an improvement to keep the game alive; it's a scam.

# RE: David Jaffe: On-disc DLC doesn't matter if you enjoyed the game — XcN3 2011-03-29 08:27

This guy, in adition of being the no.1 sony ass licker is a complete asshole,
What a ridiculous statement!
....... And ridiculous metaphor

On disc DLC is a theft and an outrage

# DLC — Wunjo_69 2011-03-29 09:33

Paid for DLC/digital release = "You just got F'd in the A!"

# RE: David Jaffe: On-disc DLC doesn't matter if you enjoyed the game — BaconBits 2011-03-29 17:33

Imagine if you bought a house and some guy comes to the door and says you want a new fridge? You say yes and he walks into your house, goes to a secret door and pulls out a fridge after taking your money. If I really believed it made it cheaper I might not be as annoyed but I am just not buying it.

# RE: David Jaffe: On-disc DLC doesn't matter if you enjoyed the game — Keith_ 2011-03-29 20:07

what about the other side of the argument - you have lots of games that have several game play modes, onine play, other story aspects that can be explored, and i bet that some of these features go unplayed in one form or another by many people.

it's like all the people who bought GTA and never bothered actually playing the story missions (or all the sidequests) because they only wanna run around & kill people.

or people who buy halo just to play online and never play the story.

or people who buy rock band/guitar hero and never play online, or never use the music studio.

games have more & more features that tend to go by the wayside based on player preference - should they start charging for us to download the ability to play online or use some of these features?

# RE: David Jaffe: On-disc DLC doesn't matter if you enjoyed the game — Saik 2011-03-30 11:37

On-disc DLC should ONLY be acceptable for limited-edition or specialty releases INSIDE of the general release, and should only unlock things there for that purpose. to make it a special event. Dragon Age had a few items like that, but most were straight DLC, they weren't on the dvd. Dragon Age 2 has a few items that are dlc that are on the disc as well, but again, that's for a special release.

Another "acceptable" dlc on-disc is for example:
Stone cold for SvR2011. EXCLUSIVE to the Xbox360 version of the game. if thq releasesit on the PSP/PS2/PS3 later that would be fine, but it was made to be exclusive and special fronm the start

# RE: David Jaffe: On-disc DLC doesn't matter if you enjoyed the game — vitralizer 2011-03-30 14:19

As a pirate-then-buy person, it doesn't matter at all to me. I still buy the game and get all the DLC for free since I don't support the idea of on-disc and day-1 DLC.

# Greeeaat... — wally 2011-03-31 21:01

It is an opinion but he's still wrong. I can already see what is going to happen with the new Twisted Metal and I'm not too stoked on it. Buy these games used and then use the money you saved to buy the DLC. You fuck me? I fuck you!

# My turn — psn id- gungrave609 2011-04-01 15:04

It's like buying a new car but the salesguy doesn't give you the spare key that is only used for doors and to start the car(which is the key I give for valet) which he was suppose to hand over. He keeps the keys hoping that a month down the line you'll be interested in that feature and fork over some dough for it when he offers it to you.

The best content I have seen are the ones for GTA4, RDR, and Bad company2(vietna m pack)

Peace

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