Posted Mar 12, 2009 at 05:21PM by Glenn M.
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Calls for heavier video game restrictions are once again set ablaze following the German school shooting yesterday, where 17-year-old Tim Kretschmer opened fire in his former high school in Winnenden Germany, killing 15, and himself in addition shortly after. Kretschmer was believed to be a skilled Counter-Strike player, and now European reps in Strasbourg have voted for a resolution in order to prevent retailers from selling inappropriate games to minors. The President of the German Foundation for Crime, Hans-Deiter Schwind, isn't even calling for restrictions. He wants a total ban on violent video games, and a further tightening of the arms law. Tim's father kept a collection of firearms at home, with an abundance of ammunition, and that's where he got the gun. Bavarian Interior Minister Joachim Herrmann has also expressed is demand for a ban on the "killer games." The European Parliament is already calling for severe sanctions to be held against retailers who fail to abide by the restriction, as well as internet cafes that allow minors to play the violent video games. Blaming games again, huh? This guy would totally get into that boat: |
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by genesiscopy - 2009-03-12 |
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» blame the game
counter-strike is not even close to violence... they even used it in world cyber games and other international tourney, thus promoting violence? meh~
counter-strike is not even close to violence... they even used it in world cyber games and other international tourney, thus promoting violence? meh~
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Re: Goobers - 2009-03-13 |
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» what?
The question is... What does world cyber games and violence have to do with each other?
the answer? very little. a violent video game, or not, is just that, a game. WCG does not base a game on violence or lack of... it bases it on a) fun/popularity... and b) ability to make use of some kind of skill... in this case, aim a virtual gun.
But saying it's "not even close to violence" is quite stupid. It's one person aiming a gun and shooting at another person (virtual or otherwise) considered violent?
The problem was never games, your poor defense is just making it look bad. Trying to claim it's not violent only proves to those idiots that gamers like you are "blinded" by the games you play.
I don't play CS... for one simple reason, and it's not because it's violent. It's just because I don't like it. I have played games that are considered more violent and games that aren't as violent.
Violence has been part of mankind for as long as mankind has been around... but just as there are those that blame violence for breeding violence, there are those that have enough sense and morals to know, just because it's around, doesn't mean they should commit it.
The question is... What does world cyber games and violence have to do with each other?
the answer? very little. a violent video game, or not, is just that, a game. WCG does not base a game on violence or lack of... it bases it on a) fun/popularity... and b) ability to make use of some kind of skill... in this case, aim a virtual gun.
But saying it's "not even close to violence" is quite stupid. It's one person aiming a gun and shooting at another person (virtual or otherwise) considered violent?
The problem was never games, your poor defense is just making it look bad. Trying to claim it's not violent only proves to those idiots that gamers like you are "blinded" by the games you play.
I don't play CS... for one simple reason, and it's not because it's violent. It's just because I don't like it. I have played games that are considered more violent and games that aren't as violent.
Violence has been part of mankind for as long as mankind has been around... but just as there are those that blame violence for breeding violence, there are those that have enough sense and morals to know, just because it's around, doesn't mean they should commit it.
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Re: PSPZorZ - 2009-03-13 |
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» @Goobers
There's a difference between something being part of mankind and being good for mankind though. Slavery used to be part of many societies that now condemn the practice. I'm not arguing either side, but I am going to say that simply because something has always been a certain way (or has for a a substantial period) doesn't mean it's right. You are correct... mature and grown adults ought to have the sense to understand the difference between a game and real life, and know to not commit the violence that may be in video games. Should there be stricter laws for marketing violent games to children, who may not have fully developed or matured yet, kids who may not be able to distinguish right from wrong in these situations? That is the question.
There's a difference between something being part of mankind and being good for mankind though. Slavery used to be part of many societies that now condemn the practice. I'm not arguing either side, but I am going to say that simply because something has always been a certain way (or has for a a substantial period) doesn't mean it's right. You are correct... mature and grown adults ought to have the sense to understand the difference between a game and real life, and know to not commit the violence that may be in video games. Should there be stricter laws for marketing violent games to children, who may not have fully developed or matured yet, kids who may not be able to distinguish right from wrong in these situations? That is the question.
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Re: Goobers - 2009-03-16 |
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» laws...
The problem with laws is... who's going to obey them?
Will it be the "young adult" that is considered to immature to make adult decisions?
Or will it be the adults that gave birth to this child?
The way I see it, laws are only good as a "guide" for those that obey it. It isn't a replacement for a parent paying attention to their kid.
About my comment about violence always being there, my point was never that because it's been around that it's okay (don't know what gave you that idea)...
As I said "just because it's around, doesn't mean they should commit it. "
My point is that because it's been around, video gaming (which hasn't been around for that long) isn't the reason for violence. A bit of common sense and better morals are the only solution to it.
Just like slavery... it took people with better sense and better morals to realize, just because one man is dark and another man is white, doesn't mean they're not both men.
The problem with laws is... who's going to obey them?
Will it be the "young adult" that is considered to immature to make adult decisions?
Or will it be the adults that gave birth to this child?
The way I see it, laws are only good as a "guide" for those that obey it. It isn't a replacement for a parent paying attention to their kid.
About my comment about violence always being there, my point was never that because it's been around that it's okay (don't know what gave you that idea)...
As I said "just because it's around, doesn't mean they should commit it. "
My point is that because it's been around, video gaming (which hasn't been around for that long) isn't the reason for violence. A bit of common sense and better morals are the only solution to it.
Just like slavery... it took people with better sense and better morals to realize, just because one man is dark and another man is white, doesn't mean they're not both men.
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by avatar76 - 2009-03-12 |
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» Well I don't think we can squarely blame this on CS
It may have been a contributing factor to how he chose to vent his rage though. These things where former students return to attack their school are usually about they feel that this is the point they remember where everything started going wrong in their lives. So they seek vengence on the place, the students and teachers are kind of just their as objects to vent rage on.
The thing is this kid wasn't a minor in many countries 17 is old enough to be chaged as an adult, making kneejerk reactions like this is stupid. This game would have been sold with an MA15+ rating in my country he would have been fully within his rights to be playing this game for the last two years.
I agree that adult games shouldn't be sold to minors though but more specifically the crime simulator type games like GTA4 etc, R18+ games should definitely not be played or even advertised to children. CS although realistic I don't think would teach any kid it's a great idea to go an kill a class full of children, aside from anything if hostages get killed (by either side) you are penalised.
I just worry because of this they're going to have stupid laws that make any game where you can kill or shoot someone it's going to have some ridiculous R18+ rating on it and the problem with that is how do you then classify something that is quite over the top like GTAIV, make it rated X? That'd be stupid.
Did you know the gears of war games are completely banned in Germany so yes I guess that may be very well what happens.
It may have been a contributing factor to how he chose to vent his rage though. These things where former students return to attack their school are usually about they feel that this is the point they remember where everything started going wrong in their lives. So they seek vengence on the place, the students and teachers are kind of just their as objects to vent rage on.
The thing is this kid wasn't a minor in many countries 17 is old enough to be chaged as an adult, making kneejerk reactions like this is stupid. This game would have been sold with an MA15+ rating in my country he would have been fully within his rights to be playing this game for the last two years.
I agree that adult games shouldn't be sold to minors though but more specifically the crime simulator type games like GTA4 etc, R18+ games should definitely not be played or even advertised to children. CS although realistic I don't think would teach any kid it's a great idea to go an kill a class full of children, aside from anything if hostages get killed (by either side) you are penalised.
I just worry because of this they're going to have stupid laws that make any game where you can kill or shoot someone it's going to have some ridiculous R18+ rating on it and the problem with that is how do you then classify something that is quite over the top like GTAIV, make it rated X? That'd be stupid.
Did you know the gears of war games are completely banned in Germany so yes I guess that may be very well what happens.
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by Allstaraugustine - 2009-03-12 |
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» oh.
give me a fking break. im sick of this blame violent children on video games bullsht. the kid was obviously messed up, it wasnt the video games fault. jesus christ. Its also the parents fault for owning weapons.
and good luck banning violent video games. even viva pinata has violence in it for petes sake.
give me a fking break. im sick of this blame violent children on video games bullsht. the kid was obviously messed up, it wasnt the video games fault. jesus christ. Its also the parents fault for owning weapons.
and good luck banning violent video games. even viva pinata has violence in it for petes sake.
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by NarooN - 2009-03-12 |
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» wow.
His parents said that he was an avid table tennis player.
So Counter-Strike is violent table tennis?
His parents said that he was an avid table tennis player.
So Counter-Strike is violent table tennis?
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by mrratburn - 2009-03-12 |
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» lame
I have read somewhere that 95% of teenage boys report that they play video games. I'm also sure that most of them are fairly good in at least one game. So saying he was an avid Counter-Strike player means nothing. Look at this way:
95% of teens play games; he played games
5% of parents own a fully-stocked gun closet; so does his parents....
.......thinking............
*GASP* IT MUST BE THE VIDEO-GAMES!!!
P.S. About Germany banning Gears of War, a hundred bucks says the next game they'll ban is Call Of Duty: World at War. Why you ask? Guess.... No, it's not because the Nazi swatzikas are historically inaccurate.....
I have read somewhere that 95% of teenage boys report that they play video games. I'm also sure that most of them are fairly good in at least one game. So saying he was an avid Counter-Strike player means nothing. Look at this way:
95% of teens play games; he played games
5% of parents own a fully-stocked gun closet; so does his parents....
.......thinking............
*GASP* IT MUST BE THE VIDEO-GAMES!!!
P.S. About Germany banning Gears of War, a hundred bucks says the next game they'll ban is Call Of Duty: World at War. Why you ask? Guess.... No, it's not because the Nazi swatzikas are historically inaccurate.....
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by Navani - 2009-03-12 |
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» heh
I read this in an article before work this morning. The article emphasized a few games that he played, and then it went on to emphasize the fact that he was GOOD at them. That's just ridiculous. The strange thing is that there were no quotes from doctors or other qualified people who deal with mental illness, they just wanted to link video games to killing.
I read this in an article before work this morning. The article emphasized a few games that he played, and then it went on to emphasize the fact that he was GOOD at them. That's just ridiculous. The strange thing is that there were no quotes from doctors or other qualified people who deal with mental illness, they just wanted to link video games to killing.
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by DarkXCloud - 2009-03-12 |
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» *sigh* When will they learn...
Videos games don't cause this, guns do.
It's also the parents fault for raising him stupid.
Videos games don't cause this, guns do.
It's also the parents fault for raising him stupid.
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Re: Alienhideout - 2009-03-14 |
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» I hope you are joking.......
Video games didn't cause this and niether did guns. Some loser that wanted to deal with his problems like a PU$$Y caused this.
Video games didn't cause this and niether did guns. Some loser that wanted to deal with his problems like a PU$$Y caused this.
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by FABLE - 2009-03-12 |
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» .
You know who else is a highly skilled CS player? Probably half the guys in the school.
You know who else is a highly skilled CS player? Probably half the guys in the school.
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by Xeinix - 2009-03-12 |
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» Wow.
This is really sad. I read about this earlier and it truly is a tragedy, but why is it a game's fault. The only time I hear anything about video games these days is when they get bashed for promoting violence.
I don't see any reporters writing articles about how games like Little Big Planet promote creativity, sharing and community sharing. Oh well, guess something or somebody has to be the scapegoat.
This is really sad. I read about this earlier and it truly is a tragedy, but why is it a game's fault. The only time I hear anything about video games these days is when they get bashed for promoting violence.
I don't see any reporters writing articles about how games like Little Big Planet promote creativity, sharing and community sharing. Oh well, guess something or somebody has to be the scapegoat.
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by Silver-Tiger - 2009-03-13 |
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» ...
wow. i was totally shocked when this news arrived me yesterday, I feel sorry for all the parents, myself being German it's shockes me even more.
But, It was bound to happen. It was clear that they again blame everything on the video games. I just waited for that.
But you know what? Again he hasd mental problems, he was bullied in school like hell, he had no girlfriend because everyone ignored him (That's the reason why he primary shot girls, I think) and his father had a HUGE weapon collection.
it's no wonder that he goes crazy, having no friends and being mentally ill is a very bad combination...
It could be true that he got his ideas from a "Killer game" like they are called here in Germany, but it could also have been Alcohol or everything else that caused the amok.
When will they finally learn this?
Tighter controls for violent video games may be right, that why games are rated, but Banning is completely unacceptable.
wow. i was totally shocked when this news arrived me yesterday, I feel sorry for all the parents, myself being German it's shockes me even more.
But, It was bound to happen. It was clear that they again blame everything on the video games. I just waited for that.
But you know what? Again he hasd mental problems, he was bullied in school like hell, he had no girlfriend because everyone ignored him (That's the reason why he primary shot girls, I think) and his father had a HUGE weapon collection.
it's no wonder that he goes crazy, having no friends and being mentally ill is a very bad combination...
It could be true that he got his ideas from a "Killer game" like they are called here in Germany, but it could also have been Alcohol or everything else that caused the amok.
When will they finally learn this?
Tighter controls for violent video games may be right, that why games are rated, but Banning is completely unacceptable.
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Re: Goobers - 2009-03-13 |
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» hum...
I can't agree that those shootings in the past and present (and future) are by those with mental illnesses... or those bullied in school with lack of girlfriends, etc.
Aside from the mental illness, I was bullied in school... and until long after high school, I never had a girlfriend.
Let's talk about "girls"... Let's see, typical age for a kid in hs... 14-18 (fresh-senior)... current life expectancy of a human male? At least 65... some folks live to 100+... So you know, there's plenty of time to get laid.
As for being bullied, despite being scrawny and always outnumbered, I decided for myself to fight back. And even though I never won a fight, at least I can tell myself, I'm no coward. Oddly enough, despite what actually happened, ended up earning me a reputation.
In the end, I was able to make the distinction of what's right and what's wrong.
This whole thing about "mental illness"... not necessarily the case most of the time. There are a number of things that can cause... or prevent a "violent" crime. One of which is simple... parents.
Banning video games isn't going to do a whole lot, other than change the excuse.
I can't agree that those shootings in the past and present (and future) are by those with mental illnesses... or those bullied in school with lack of girlfriends, etc.
Aside from the mental illness, I was bullied in school... and until long after high school, I never had a girlfriend.
Let's talk about "girls"... Let's see, typical age for a kid in hs... 14-18 (fresh-senior)... current life expectancy of a human male? At least 65... some folks live to 100+... So you know, there's plenty of time to get laid.
As for being bullied, despite being scrawny and always outnumbered, I decided for myself to fight back. And even though I never won a fight, at least I can tell myself, I'm no coward. Oddly enough, despite what actually happened, ended up earning me a reputation.
In the end, I was able to make the distinction of what's right and what's wrong.
This whole thing about "mental illness"... not necessarily the case most of the time. There are a number of things that can cause... or prevent a "violent" crime. One of which is simple... parents.
Banning video games isn't going to do a whole lot, other than change the excuse.
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Re: FreePlay - 2009-03-13 |
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» ...
"I can't agree that those shootings in the past and present (and future) are by those with mental illnesses... or those bullied in school with lack of girlfriends, etc."
Doesn't matter if you agree or not; it's true. So far as I know every school shooter has had some mental illness.
"I can't agree that those shootings in the past and present (and future) are by those with mental illnesses... or those bullied in school with lack of girlfriends, etc."
Doesn't matter if you agree or not; it's true. So far as I know every school shooter has had some mental illness.
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by cizzar - 2009-03-13 |
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» No it wasn't
the gun which wasn't locked away, it were the "killergames" ...
And these idiots rule our country ...
the gun which wasn't locked away, it were the "killergames" ...
And these idiots rule our country ...
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by shadow71 - 2009-03-13 |
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» he read school books
ban school books!
ban school books!
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by milo128 - 2009-03-13 |
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» man
soon they are going to ban brawl because someone punched their friend or burned someone
soon they are going to ban brawl because someone punched their friend or burned someone
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by sickofitall - 2009-03-13 |
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» man,
I thought rap music was to blame
I thought rap music was to blame
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Re: Leodrqaz - 2009-03-13 |
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» Money for old rope
It's the old tried and tested we don't know why he did it lets just blame some sort of entertainment crap, if i had a pound for every time this sort scapegoating appears in the media i would have as much as Bernard Maddof has screwed out a lot of people.
I have heard so much of it over the last 30 years that it's all getting very boring and predictable the only thing that changes is what the scapegoat is. in this case video games last time it was horror films etc.....etc....etc................oh dear! in a fit of depression i have just cut off my own head with a sword.............best we blame the sword manufactures etc.....etc.......Bye.
It's the old tried and tested we don't know why he did it lets just blame some sort of entertainment crap, if i had a pound for every time this sort scapegoating appears in the media i would have as much as Bernard Maddof has screwed out a lot of people.
I have heard so much of it over the last 30 years that it's all getting very boring and predictable the only thing that changes is what the scapegoat is. in this case video games last time it was horror films etc.....etc....etc................oh dear! in a fit of depression i have just cut off my own head with a sword.............best we blame the sword manufactures etc.....etc.......Bye.
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by PaganiC12 - 2009-03-13 |
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» meh
omg!
are they going to ban all the violent games ?!
let me list those games...
cs
halo
bf
l4d
MOH..
(sorry...your comments are limited)
how the hell can they ban all violent games?!
omg!
are they going to ban all the violent games ?!
let me list those games...
cs
halo
bf
l4d
MOH..
(sorry...your comments are limited)
how the hell can they ban all violent games?!
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by 18MW - 2009-03-14 |
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» its the guy!
the game has nothin to do with wat the guy just did...
its just the guy to be blamed, not the game!
the game has nothin to do with wat the guy just did...
its just the guy to be blamed, not the game!
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by avatar76 - 2009-03-15 |
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» Trouble is
People don't want to except that tomorrow even if there were no violent forms of entertainment another 17 year old could potentially do the same thing.
There will always be downtroden that's the way of our human nature. We define ourselves by away we struggle against life and against each other.
Success is often measured in how well you sh4t on all the other competition. Unfortunate as that is I think there are always going to be people who feel disinfranchised, jealous or ostrisised. The way this kid chose to express his rage just comes back to what tools he had available to him.
The best we can do as millions of individuals is not let people unravel to the extent that this kid did. All it probably would have taken was one person to befriend him and he might have turned this all around.
I say all this as a loaner who was bashed by a gang of people I would have called my friends earlier. The fact that I worked and couldn't hang out with them and the fact that I was a vegetarian gave them enough to ostrisise me. Had two guys come up behind me grab my legs and drag me face first through gravel. The difference is I fought back, after I'd shaken off the pain, I grabbed a hand full of large stones followed the two of them and called out to them when I got close enough. When they turned I threw one rock as a warning and said "run", one spoke up saying something like he wasn't chicken ***** like me. So I threw one at full strength at his head, it struck him in the temple. Blood gushed out and he ran at me I did few defense moves to block punches from him and struck back at his solar plexus and jaw. The other guy just stood there. They rejoined the other members of the gang later and walked up my street, I was waiting for them this time though, I'd loaded up my BB air rifle and taken up position in a hidden spot in trees in my front yard. As they got in firing range I let loose (trying not to aim for the head of course), after striking several of them they turned around and walked away. I was 14 at the time of this but felt I had no choice but to defend myself. In retrospect given the alternative weapons I could have used, (my father had an unlocked 22calibre rifle capable of firing acurately up to a mile away) I think I made the a better choice using non lethal force, still this doesn't sit well with me what I did. This was 20 years ago though and things are different now I would probably have been arrested for even using the air rifle.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is anyone is capable of ***** like this if pushed down hard enough.
People don't want to except that tomorrow even if there were no violent forms of entertainment another 17 year old could potentially do the same thing.
There will always be downtroden that's the way of our human nature. We define ourselves by away we struggle against life and against each other.
Success is often measured in how well you sh4t on all the other competition. Unfortunate as that is I think there are always going to be people who feel disinfranchised, jealous or ostrisised. The way this kid chose to express his rage just comes back to what tools he had available to him.
The best we can do as millions of individuals is not let people unravel to the extent that this kid did. All it probably would have taken was one person to befriend him and he might have turned this all around.
I say all this as a loaner who was bashed by a gang of people I would have called my friends earlier. The fact that I worked and couldn't hang out with them and the fact that I was a vegetarian gave them enough to ostrisise me. Had two guys come up behind me grab my legs and drag me face first through gravel. The difference is I fought back, after I'd shaken off the pain, I grabbed a hand full of large stones followed the two of them and called out to them when I got close enough. When they turned I threw one rock as a warning and said "run", one spoke up saying something like he wasn't chicken ***** like me. So I threw one at full strength at his head, it struck him in the temple. Blood gushed out and he ran at me I did few defense moves to block punches from him and struck back at his solar plexus and jaw. The other guy just stood there. They rejoined the other members of the gang later and walked up my street, I was waiting for them this time though, I'd loaded up my BB air rifle and taken up position in a hidden spot in trees in my front yard. As they got in firing range I let loose (trying not to aim for the head of course), after striking several of them they turned around and walked away. I was 14 at the time of this but felt I had no choice but to defend myself. In retrospect given the alternative weapons I could have used, (my father had an unlocked 22calibre rifle capable of firing acurately up to a mile away) I think I made the a better choice using non lethal force, still this doesn't sit well with me what I did. This was 20 years ago though and things are different now I would probably have been arrested for even using the air rifle.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is anyone is capable of ***** like this if pushed down hard enough.
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by KritzKrieg - 2009-03-16 |
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» Hmmm...
Maybe he did it because he's German and it's simply in their blood. F'ing combat-boot wearers.
Maybe he did it because he's German and it's simply in their blood. F'ing combat-boot wearers.
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