Posted Mar 17, 2008 at 10:25PM by Sally B.
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Indeed, a good deal of the Bible portrays scenes of violence, and one would be hard-pressed to hold up as a proper role model the regicidal Macbeth. Although some might say that it is risible to compare the violence depicted in the examples offered by the State to that described in classical literature, such violence has been deemed by our court worthy of First Amendment protection, and there the matter stands. |
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[Via CNET News]
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by Orlyeh - 2008-03-17 |
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» Wut?
Whew, I'm glad gamers can buy games that depict violent acts and immerse them in virtual activities to kill other people halfway across the world. We should still not allow them to purchase pornography. Why, viewing a womans breasts and/or a vagina will scar the youngins for life! Rated R movies too.
It makes no difference to me either way, but the arguments on either side seem to get far more ludicrous than necessary.
Whew, I'm glad gamers can buy games that depict violent acts and immerse them in virtual activities to kill other people halfway across the world. We should still not allow them to purchase pornography. Why, viewing a womans breasts and/or a vagina will scar the youngins for life! Rated R movies too.
It makes no difference to me either way, but the arguments on either side seem to get far more ludicrous than necessary.
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by death69 - 2008-03-17 |
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» sorry but in this instance
It should not have been overturned I my self dont really care what my boy plays I bought him gta for his birthday
but if I did care I think $25 fine is to small
I mean there should be a fine for store workers that sell or rent to minors games rated [M] if there was sush a fine it might help curve Imean if I buy my son a game so be it if he buys a game I dont think he should play ...I would get in trouble going to the store and kicking the guys azz he should get in trouble selling or renting it
to a minor
It should not have been overturned I my self dont really care what my boy plays I bought him gta for his birthday
but if I did care I think $25 fine is to small
I mean there should be a fine for store workers that sell or rent to minors games rated [M] if there was sush a fine it might help curve Imean if I buy my son a game so be it if he buys a game I dont think he should play ...I would get in trouble going to the store and kicking the guys azz he should get in trouble selling or renting it
to a minor
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Re: purplepills - 2008-03-18 |
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» irony? or somthing else of the sort
so your going to kick a guys ass at the store because he rented your kid a violent game, that supposedly will make him violent?
what a role model you are to america (+
so your going to kick a guys ass at the store because he rented your kid a violent game, that supposedly will make him violent?
what a role model you are to america (+
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Re: Mister Common Sense - 2008-03-18 |
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» purplepills is right
Must have been those violent games he played as a child, lol.
Must have been those violent games he played as a child, lol.
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by ghorricks - 2008-03-18 |
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» I didn't realise!
Here in the UK video games sales are great.
I stated off with that because we are not allowed to sell games to a person who isn't as old as the rating for the game... Yeah, it still happens and it doesn't really bother anyone... But if the store in question is doing this repeatedly then they are likely to get investigated and fined accordingly.
It keeps the politicians happy (most of the time) that games rating 18 should only be sold to people 18 and over (same for the other ratings).
Question : In theory can a 10 year old girl or boy go into a video game shop and purchase a title that only an adult should be able to buy.... with no challenge via US law?
If the answer is yes, then get the law passed and then watch as Jack Thompson thinks he's won... only to find that it's still happening.
I remember watching "Flesh Gordon" as a 9 year old! Yep the store gave me the wrong VHS in the box... I was SO happy.
G
Here in the UK video games sales are great.
I stated off with that because we are not allowed to sell games to a person who isn't as old as the rating for the game... Yeah, it still happens and it doesn't really bother anyone... But if the store in question is doing this repeatedly then they are likely to get investigated and fined accordingly.
It keeps the politicians happy (most of the time) that games rating 18 should only be sold to people 18 and over (same for the other ratings).
Question : In theory can a 10 year old girl or boy go into a video game shop and purchase a title that only an adult should be able to buy.... with no challenge via US law?
If the answer is yes, then get the law passed and then watch as Jack Thompson thinks he's won... only to find that it's still happening.
I remember watching "Flesh Gordon" as a 9 year old! Yep the store gave me the wrong VHS in the box... I was SO happy.
G
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Re: Xastabus - 2008-03-18 |
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» Restrictions are fine, but...
I don't have a problem with regulations. Personally, I think the "damaging content" argument lacks any adequate proof. In fact, most adult gamers are likely proof positive against the argument.
However, what most non-gamer lawyers and legislators are trying to do is expunge violence from video games completely. It's the social mentality that everything needs to be "kid friendly".
I don't have a problem with regulations. Personally, I think the "damaging content" argument lacks any adequate proof. In fact, most adult gamers are likely proof positive against the argument.
However, what most non-gamer lawyers and legislators are trying to do is expunge violence from video games completely. It's the social mentality that everything needs to be "kid friendly".
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by chucky3456 - 2008-03-18 |
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» good
There seems to be one thing about these videogame laws that NOONE can see... The ESRB is not a GOVERNMENT AGENCY. Therefore, THIER RATINGS CANNOT BE PART OF A LAW!!!!!! It is not a LAW that you cannot sell an M rated game to kids. Just like it is not a LAW to restrict sales of R-Rated films. It is all policy of businesses not to, as the ESRB and MPAA are privately-owned organizations.
There seems to be one thing about these videogame laws that NOONE can see... The ESRB is not a GOVERNMENT AGENCY. Therefore, THIER RATINGS CANNOT BE PART OF A LAW!!!!!! It is not a LAW that you cannot sell an M rated game to kids. Just like it is not a LAW to restrict sales of R-Rated films. It is all policy of businesses not to, as the ESRB and MPAA are privately-owned organizations.
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Re: Ganon007 - 2008-03-18 |
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» I agree
If they were to start making ratings an actual law then they would have to do it across the board. They would have to make renting or buying R rated movies while underage iligal.
If they were to start making ratings an actual law then they would have to do it across the board. They would have to make renting or buying R rated movies while underage iligal.
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by Xastabus - 2008-03-18 |
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» Ever notice...
How the vast majority of people up in arms about violence in video games are not gamers themselves? In fact, it seems to me their take on the issue is base on a completely exaggerated point of view. Like good 'ol Jakie-boy and his blatant misrepresentation of countless games, or that lady who said Mass Effect had graphic sex in an interview.
It's like the arguing that rock music makes us all devil worshipers. Completely illogical and absolutely no basis in reality.
Way back in the '80s my favorite arcade game was Rampage. I would have been less than 10 at the time, but I had no delusions that real violence was bad. Hell, cartoons were more violent than most video games in those days.
Today, I play violent games as an outlet for frustration and stress. I play to relax. If the Nanny State were to take that away from me... I don't know what would happen, but I wouldn't want to think about my possible state of mind from pent up stress and frustration.
... Yeah, I ramble. Sorry.
How the vast majority of people up in arms about violence in video games are not gamers themselves? In fact, it seems to me their take on the issue is base on a completely exaggerated point of view. Like good 'ol Jakie-boy and his blatant misrepresentation of countless games, or that lady who said Mass Effect had graphic sex in an interview.
It's like the arguing that rock music makes us all devil worshipers. Completely illogical and absolutely no basis in reality.
Way back in the '80s my favorite arcade game was Rampage. I would have been less than 10 at the time, but I had no delusions that real violence was bad. Hell, cartoons were more violent than most video games in those days.
Today, I play violent games as an outlet for frustration and stress. I play to relax. If the Nanny State were to take that away from me... I don't know what would happen, but I wouldn't want to think about my possible state of mind from pent up stress and frustration.
... Yeah, I ramble. Sorry.
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by ISOHaven - 2008-03-18 |
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» WTF!?!?!?!?!
I think that judge is full of crap!
Based on his theory, there is no evidence that porn "directly harmed or affected Minnesota children in any way". So why is porn illegal to minors? There is no evidence that a glass of wine a day "directly harmed or affected Minnesota children in any way". So why is it illegal to sell a child alcohol?
The line of inappropriate content is obvious. These guys simply aren't showing the goods.
I think that judge is full of crap!
Based on his theory, there is no evidence that porn "directly harmed or affected Minnesota children in any way". So why is porn illegal to minors? There is no evidence that a glass of wine a day "directly harmed or affected Minnesota children in any way". So why is it illegal to sell a child alcohol?
The line of inappropriate content is obvious. These guys simply aren't showing the goods.
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Re: Mister Common Sense - 2008-03-18 |
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» wow that's stupid
I think you're full of crap!
When's the next bible study with your pal Jack Tohmpson?
Moving on,
"The judge cited constitutional concerns and "a paucity of evidence linking the availability of video games with any harm to Minnesota's children at all."
There iso wiitard goes again, bringing up things that have nothing to do with the issue. Where's porn or alcohol mentioned in the article? What do porn or alcohol have to do with a violent videogame? Another irreleveant comparison like the famous "50s car and pirated roms" argument?
This judge is defending our first amendment rights against pointless laws that do nothing to protect children. If there's a $25 fine for trying to buy a game, then all a teen has to do is get an adult to buy it for them. How would this law even be enforced? Would police be called to the store to issue a $25 fine? What a load of BS.
Laws can't take the place of proper parenting.
I think you're full of crap!
When's the next bible study with your pal Jack Tohmpson?
Moving on,
"The judge cited constitutional concerns and "a paucity of evidence linking the availability of video games with any harm to Minnesota's children at all."
There iso wiitard goes again, bringing up things that have nothing to do with the issue. Where's porn or alcohol mentioned in the article? What do porn or alcohol have to do with a violent videogame? Another irreleveant comparison like the famous "50s car and pirated roms" argument?
This judge is defending our first amendment rights against pointless laws that do nothing to protect children. If there's a $25 fine for trying to buy a game, then all a teen has to do is get an adult to buy it for them. How would this law even be enforced? Would police be called to the store to issue a $25 fine? What a load of BS.
Laws can't take the place of proper parenting.
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Re: demondirk - 2008-03-18 |
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» .
your just mad that ISOHeaven has proven you wrong time and time again
your just mad that ISOHeaven has proven you wrong time and time again
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Re: ISOHaven - 2008-03-18 |
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» WTF!?!?!?!?!
"There iso wiitard goes again, bringing up things that have nothing to do with the issue. Where's porn or alcohol mentioned in the article? What do porn or alcohol have to do with a violent videogame?"
Wow dude, if you were any more ignorant on the ways of life you would be dead.
Are you serious here? You honestly have no clue what "like" cases have to do with current cases?
Do us all a favor, go back to school.....fool....
"If there's a $25 fine for trying to buy a game, then all a teen has to do is get an adult to buy it for them"
HELLO!?!?!?!? That's the point! That's what these people want.
What you just described is the SAME THING as with alcohol, cigarettes. Do you get it yet? THINK THINK THINK real hard and you just might get it.....some day.
"How would this law even be enforced?"
Seriously? You don't get it? Honestly, only a f@cking moron wouldn't be able to get it. In some states, it's already enforced. In EVERY STATE it's enforced with other consumer products.
"Would police be called to the store to issue a $25 fine? "
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What a MORON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is 100% proof positive that Mr. Nonsense has absolutely NO CLUE WHAT-SO-EVER as to what he's talking about. All this guy does is talk out his rear end.
"Laws can't take the place of proper parenting."
This law does NOT take the place of parenting. It AIDS parents as a tool for them to better parent their kids. Only dumb stupid ignorant children think it's possible for every parent to know EVERYTHING about EVERY game on the market.
As much as you ding me about bring up alcohol and porn (now before you rant like a dumb child again, try to understand this) it's the SAME THING. If you feel these adult oriented games shouldn't be rated or enforced then you ALSO HAVE TO AGREE that kids should be allowed to buy porn and alcohol. After all ACCORDING TO YOU it's a parents job to keep porn and alcohol (adult games) away from kids.....not the liquor store owner (Walmart employee).
You fail on SO MANY levels.
"There iso wiitard goes again, bringing up things that have nothing to do with the issue. Where's porn or alcohol mentioned in the article? What do porn or alcohol have to do with a violent videogame?"
Wow dude, if you were any more ignorant on the ways of life you would be dead.
Are you serious here? You honestly have no clue what "like" cases have to do with current cases?
Do us all a favor, go back to school.....fool....
"If there's a $25 fine for trying to buy a game, then all a teen has to do is get an adult to buy it for them"
HELLO!?!?!?!? That's the point! That's what these people want.
What you just described is the SAME THING as with alcohol, cigarettes. Do you get it yet? THINK THINK THINK real hard and you just might get it.....some day.
"How would this law even be enforced?"
Seriously? You don't get it? Honestly, only a f@cking moron wouldn't be able to get it. In some states, it's already enforced. In EVERY STATE it's enforced with other consumer products.
"Would police be called to the store to issue a $25 fine? "
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What a MORON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is 100% proof positive that Mr. Nonsense has absolutely NO CLUE WHAT-SO-EVER as to what he's talking about. All this guy does is talk out his rear end.
"Laws can't take the place of proper parenting."
This law does NOT take the place of parenting. It AIDS parents as a tool for them to better parent their kids. Only dumb stupid ignorant children think it's possible for every parent to know EVERYTHING about EVERY game on the market.
As much as you ding me about bring up alcohol and porn (now before you rant like a dumb child again, try to understand this) it's the SAME THING. If you feel these adult oriented games shouldn't be rated or enforced then you ALSO HAVE TO AGREE that kids should be allowed to buy porn and alcohol. After all ACCORDING TO YOU it's a parents job to keep porn and alcohol (adult games) away from kids.....not the liquor store owner (Walmart employee).
You fail on SO MANY levels.
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Re: Mister Common Sense - 2008-03-19 |
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» wow
Alcohol and porn could be considered harmful to minors. Alcohol is harmful to adults that can't control it too. Is an adult going to play a violent videogame, become addicted, and ruin their life? Give me a legitimate study that says videogames are harmful to minors. Remember I said legitimate.
Jack Tohmpsons clients want money because they were hurt or killed by a kid that happens to play videogames. Since the kid is always from a trash family, they have no money and the parents did a horrible job raising their kids. Therefore Jack must sue a convienent scapegoat with money, the game makers.
The real issue is bad parents blame videogames for their kids being violent. Any decent parent knows what their kids are playing and can tell if it's appropriate or not. Bad parents blame games for misbehavior and want the government to step in and issue fines and other BS (which the parent may have to pay.)
Also, how DO they inforce these laws? Aparently you don'd know how or if the enforcment is successful. Is store security going to give the kid a fine or a ticket? You haven't answered.
Keep up the childish insults, it's really adding to your credibility.
Alcohol and porn could be considered harmful to minors. Alcohol is harmful to adults that can't control it too. Is an adult going to play a violent videogame, become addicted, and ruin their life? Give me a legitimate study that says videogames are harmful to minors. Remember I said legitimate.
Jack Tohmpsons clients want money because they were hurt or killed by a kid that happens to play videogames. Since the kid is always from a trash family, they have no money and the parents did a horrible job raising their kids. Therefore Jack must sue a convienent scapegoat with money, the game makers.
The real issue is bad parents blame videogames for their kids being violent. Any decent parent knows what their kids are playing and can tell if it's appropriate or not. Bad parents blame games for misbehavior and want the government to step in and issue fines and other BS (which the parent may have to pay.)
Also, how DO they inforce these laws? Aparently you don'd know how or if the enforcment is successful. Is store security going to give the kid a fine or a ticket? You haven't answered.
Keep up the childish insults, it's really adding to your credibility.
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Re: ISOHaven - 2008-03-19 |
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» WTF!?!?!?!?!
Holy crap! More garbage from this idiot?
"Give me a legitimate study that says videogames are harmful to minors. Remember I said legitimate."
Look bud, you don't get to ask this question yet because I ALREADY ASKED for legitimate PROOF on how a glass of wine a day can harm a minor. I asked for PROOF of how porn can harm a minor. When you answer those I'll answer yours.
The FACT is none of this is directly harmful to a minor on a single case by case basis. It is IMPOSSIBLE TO EVER prove as such. You have to look and judge the ENTIRE BIG PICTURE. There is NO DOUBT that adult only rated games contain ADULT themes. DUH!!!!! That's why they are rated as ADULT or MATURE. Minors have no business having free reign on adult material.
Honestly, I don't know why they are attacking a violence angle. That is neither here or there. They should just concentrate on restricting adult material to adults. Let the rating orgs fight their own battles.
Let's look at how hypocritical these law makers are:
We WANT to fine business for selling adult material to minors (playboy).
We DO NOT WANT to fine business for selling adult material to minors (videogame porn).
Then it gets into the whole violence issue. The problem here is there is no violence rating. Mature is Mature. There is no different Mature Porn rating and Mature Violence rating. They go hand in hand. To kill one means to kill the other.
Holy crap! More garbage from this idiot?
"Give me a legitimate study that says videogames are harmful to minors. Remember I said legitimate."
Look bud, you don't get to ask this question yet because I ALREADY ASKED for legitimate PROOF on how a glass of wine a day can harm a minor. I asked for PROOF of how porn can harm a minor. When you answer those I'll answer yours.
The FACT is none of this is directly harmful to a minor on a single case by case basis. It is IMPOSSIBLE TO EVER prove as such. You have to look and judge the ENTIRE BIG PICTURE. There is NO DOUBT that adult only rated games contain ADULT themes. DUH!!!!! That's why they are rated as ADULT or MATURE. Minors have no business having free reign on adult material.
Honestly, I don't know why they are attacking a violence angle. That is neither here or there. They should just concentrate on restricting adult material to adults. Let the rating orgs fight their own battles.
Let's look at how hypocritical these law makers are:
We WANT to fine business for selling adult material to minors (playboy).
We DO NOT WANT to fine business for selling adult material to minors (videogame porn).
Then it gets into the whole violence issue. The problem here is there is no violence rating. Mature is Mature. There is no different Mature Porn rating and Mature Violence rating. They go hand in hand. To kill one means to kill the other.
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Re: Mister Common Sense - 2008-03-20 |
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» WTF!?!?!?!?!
"Look bud, you don't get to ask this question yet because I ALREADY ASKED for legitimate PROOF on how a glass of wine a day can harm a minor. I asked for PROOF of how porn can harm a minor. When you answer those I'll answer yours."
How do I prove that, and how is that relevant? Porn is not in any games (maybe Japan.) Encouraging alcohol or drug use is not in any games. It doesn't matter.
"We WANT to fine business for selling adult material to minors (playboy).
We DO NOT WANT to fine business for selling adult material to minors (videogame porn)."
Uh there are no "adults only" console games. No retailes would sell them. You find a pornographic console game and let me know, ok? Then prove it's being sold to minors.
I'll say it again, I'm done here. It's obvious you are incapable of any intelligent debate. Give your meaningless reply, throw in the usual insults, and shut up!
"Look bud, you don't get to ask this question yet because I ALREADY ASKED for legitimate PROOF on how a glass of wine a day can harm a minor. I asked for PROOF of how porn can harm a minor. When you answer those I'll answer yours."
How do I prove that, and how is that relevant? Porn is not in any games (maybe Japan.) Encouraging alcohol or drug use is not in any games. It doesn't matter.
"We WANT to fine business for selling adult material to minors (playboy).
We DO NOT WANT to fine business for selling adult material to minors (videogame porn)."
Uh there are no "adults only" console games. No retailes would sell them. You find a pornographic console game and let me know, ok? Then prove it's being sold to minors.
I'll say it again, I'm done here. It's obvious you are incapable of any intelligent debate. Give your meaningless reply, throw in the usual insults, and shut up!
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Re: ISOHaven - 2008-03-20 |
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» WTF!?!?!?!?!
"How do I prove that, and how is that relevant?"
It's 100% relevant BECAUSE you bring up the issue of the government raising kids instead of parents. If you can't grasp common concepts then why are you bothering to type here?
"Porn is not in any games (maybe Japan.)"
Porn is ADULT content as is in ALL ADULT rated material. God, your an idiot.
"Encouraging alcohol or drug use is not in any games. It doesn't matter."
Yes it is and yes it does. However, ENCOURAGING is NOT what I'm talking about. Just give up, you're too ignorant to hold a conversation here.
"Uh there are no "adults only" console games. No retailes would sell them."
OMG! How damn ignorant can you be?
"You find a pornographic console game and let me know, ok?"
Adult/Mature and pornographic are not synonymous.
"I'll say it again, I'm done here."
You were done before you started.
The POINT here is ADULT CONTENT. You keep flipping sides in order to force a point. Much like an immature child desperately trying to win a debate with absolutely no facts or common sense about him.
"How do I prove that, and how is that relevant?"
It's 100% relevant BECAUSE you bring up the issue of the government raising kids instead of parents. If you can't grasp common concepts then why are you bothering to type here?
"Porn is not in any games (maybe Japan.)"
Porn is ADULT content as is in ALL ADULT rated material. God, your an idiot.
"Encouraging alcohol or drug use is not in any games. It doesn't matter."
Yes it is and yes it does. However, ENCOURAGING is NOT what I'm talking about. Just give up, you're too ignorant to hold a conversation here.
"Uh there are no "adults only" console games. No retailes would sell them."
OMG! How damn ignorant can you be?
"You find a pornographic console game and let me know, ok?"
Adult/Mature and pornographic are not synonymous.
"I'll say it again, I'm done here."
You were done before you started.
The POINT here is ADULT CONTENT. You keep flipping sides in order to force a point. Much like an immature child desperately trying to win a debate with absolutely no facts or common sense about him.
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by kloplop321 - 2008-03-18 |
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» he was payed...
that comment sounds like it was thought over for more than half an hour, I think he was paid by a gaming company..
that comment sounds like it was thought over for more than half an hour, I think he was paid by a gaming company..
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by cear_moak - 2008-03-18 |
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» stupid decision.
seriously. this is NOT good news for the game industry because when these immature kids blame videogames for eveything, jack thompson steps in and tries to destroy the whole thing. if there were a rating on a bottle of alcohol but kids were still able to get a hold of it, maybe alcohol would be banned already. i would totally agree with this law, but disagree with the price. i say $500 fines to the store where the game was sold to the minor, and $100 fine to the employee who sold it. i guarantee no 13 year old will ever get their hands on a M - Rated game again unless the parents got it for them. i'm not trying to spoil it for the kids, but i'd rather do that than have games like manhunt 2 dumbed-down because parents are worried their kid is going to get a hold of it at walmart. if they really want the game that bad, then act mature enough to play it.
seriously. this is NOT good news for the game industry because when these immature kids blame videogames for eveything, jack thompson steps in and tries to destroy the whole thing. if there were a rating on a bottle of alcohol but kids were still able to get a hold of it, maybe alcohol would be banned already. i would totally agree with this law, but disagree with the price. i say $500 fines to the store where the game was sold to the minor, and $100 fine to the employee who sold it. i guarantee no 13 year old will ever get their hands on a M - Rated game again unless the parents got it for them. i'm not trying to spoil it for the kids, but i'd rather do that than have games like manhunt 2 dumbed-down because parents are worried their kid is going to get a hold of it at walmart. if they really want the game that bad, then act mature enough to play it.
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