Posted Nov 04, 2007 at 11:07AM by Isaac C.
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[Via Tech.co.uk]
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29 Comments
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by ~~ - 2007-11-04 |
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» ~~
And still HD-DVD was outsold 2:1 for the last 9 months by blu-ray, was it now ?
They don't really make a good job of speaking for themselves, atleast thats what i read...
And still HD-DVD was outsold 2:1 for the last 9 months by blu-ray, was it now ?
They don't really make a good job of speaking for themselves, atleast thats what i read...
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Re: mreverdred01 - 2007-11-04 |
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» omg. so dumb.
A study by the HD-DVD promotion people says that only 13% of PS3 owners use their console to play blu-ray disks. Wow. Just wow. I bet they just went around the office at Toshiba and surveyed themselves. This is dumb. And also, I don't know anybody that has a PS3 and doesn't realize it plays blu-ray disks. They probably said it out of sarcasm. When asked if they know it has blu-ray they probably went, "no, really? you mean it can play that thing that's on the box and in the commercial and it came with a copy of? ugh."
A study by the HD-DVD promotion people says that only 13% of PS3 owners use their console to play blu-ray disks. Wow. Just wow. I bet they just went around the office at Toshiba and surveyed themselves. This is dumb. And also, I don't know anybody that has a PS3 and doesn't realize it plays blu-ray disks. They probably said it out of sarcasm. When asked if they know it has blu-ray they probably went, "no, really? you mean it can play that thing that's on the box and in the commercial and it came with a copy of? ugh."
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Re: Constantinecy - 2007-11-04 |
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» lol
That must be the dumbest PR act I've ever read about-period!
That must be the dumbest PR act I've ever read about-period!
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Re: xche78x - 2007-11-05 |
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» woot woot
agreed, this comment is totally pathetic.
i would have appreciated some fighting words but not as stupid as this title says.
agreed, this comment is totally pathetic.
i would have appreciated some fighting words but not as stupid as this title says.
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Re: _ME_ - 2007-11-05 |
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» LOL (to article not to this thread)
Quote:
Only 13 per cent of PS3 owners have watched a movie on their games console
Unquote:
Interesting since ALL PS3s come with a blu-ray movie. This shows that the poll is very flawed and M$ is $hittin bricks.
Quote:
Only 13 per cent of PS3 owners have watched a movie on their games console
Unquote:
Interesting since ALL PS3s come with a blu-ray movie. This shows that the poll is very flawed and M$ is $hittin bricks.
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by MrGrey1970 - 2007-11-04 |
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» duh?
60% don`t know they can play movies on ps3? Get real.
I`d have thought the fact that it says blu-ray and dvd on the top/side would give it away, or perhaps the video folder on the XMB, or...THE MANUAL!!! Or maybe even the box it came in might mention it. Perhaps the fact you can get a DVD/Bluray remote for the PS3 would make people stop to think, no?
I just hate these analysts/so-called experts. So far up themselves they can`t see the truth and have to manipulate percentages to back up their unfounded arguments. 76% of people I`ve just imagined agree with me :-)
The day I hooked up my PS3 was the day I took my DVD player out...there`s no need for it and my PS3 does a much better job of playing them and I no longer buy DVDs, it`s Bluray all the way for me. Everyone I know with a PS3 uses it to play movies, but I guess we are all in the minority, eh?
Did anyone mention you can also...wait for it...play CDs ?
60% don`t know they can play movies on ps3? Get real.
I`d have thought the fact that it says blu-ray and dvd on the top/side would give it away, or perhaps the video folder on the XMB, or...THE MANUAL!!! Or maybe even the box it came in might mention it. Perhaps the fact you can get a DVD/Bluray remote for the PS3 would make people stop to think, no?
I just hate these analysts/so-called experts. So far up themselves they can`t see the truth and have to manipulate percentages to back up their unfounded arguments. 76% of people I`ve just imagined agree with me :-)
The day I hooked up my PS3 was the day I took my DVD player out...there`s no need for it and my PS3 does a much better job of playing them and I no longer buy DVDs, it`s Bluray all the way for me. Everyone I know with a PS3 uses it to play movies, but I guess we are all in the minority, eh?
Did anyone mention you can also...wait for it...play CDs ?
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by CHUCKINGROCKSATSPACESHIPS - 2007-11-04 |
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» Funny, I Don't Remember Them Surveying Me On The Subject
Personally I have 10 Blu-ray movies and watch a lot of DVDs on my PS3. I will continue the trend as long as the technology is there. Just about all my future movie purchases will be in Blu-ray format. I also have 6 PS3 games and plan to purchase a few more by the end of the year.
Personally I have 10 Blu-ray movies and watch a lot of DVDs on my PS3. I will continue the trend as long as the technology is there. Just about all my future movie purchases will be in Blu-ray format. I also have 6 PS3 games and plan to purchase a few more by the end of the year.
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by Lifeline - 2007-11-04 |
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» Ha!
Were in the hell do these people get there figures from? It just confuses the hell out of me at how desperate the HD DVD promotional group truely are, huh, they must truely place there heads so far in the sand ( or up there rear )that they would rather believe the complete $h*t that comes from there analyst's.
They know there in trouble, that demand for Blu-Ray exceeds demand for HD DVD at LEAST 2 - 1 and it is increasing every month, yet they still do not recognise the PS3 as a Movie player. Ha..When I purchased my PS3 back in July, the fact that it can play movies and HD ones at that, was the first and for most reason for buying it while games playing was my secondary reason. Surely I am not the only person out there whom purchased there PS3 for the exact same reasons as myself?
If so then the HD DVD promotional group are yet again out of sheer desperation talking complete and utter rubbish, just because they cannot report anything good about their failing format!!
Apologies for the rant, I just could not believe there recent stab at the PS3 and Blu ray!!
Were in the hell do these people get there figures from? It just confuses the hell out of me at how desperate the HD DVD promotional group truely are, huh, they must truely place there heads so far in the sand ( or up there rear )that they would rather believe the complete $h*t that comes from there analyst's.
They know there in trouble, that demand for Blu-Ray exceeds demand for HD DVD at LEAST 2 - 1 and it is increasing every month, yet they still do not recognise the PS3 as a Movie player. Ha..When I purchased my PS3 back in July, the fact that it can play movies and HD ones at that, was the first and for most reason for buying it while games playing was my secondary reason. Surely I am not the only person out there whom purchased there PS3 for the exact same reasons as myself?
If so then the HD DVD promotional group are yet again out of sheer desperation talking complete and utter rubbish, just because they cannot report anything good about their failing format!!
Apologies for the rant, I just could not believe there recent stab at the PS3 and Blu ray!!
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by Advertising - |
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by Demibeard - 2007-11-04 |
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» Maybe QJ.net should change the poll?
The Wii question is getting a bit old now :-)
Anyway, since buying my PS3 in March (UK you see) My dedicated DVD player has been switched on once, and that was to see the difference between upscaled HDMI and SCART.
What escapes me is why anyone would buy a stand alone Blu-Ray player! The PS3 is more capable, more updateable (word?) and just plain more fun than anything else.
Even if you don't want to play games on it, it plays CD's very well, can connect to your Ipod thingy (Even the new walkmans work) and you can surf the web.
Anything else is just daft, especially for £299.
The Wii question is getting a bit old now :-)
Anyway, since buying my PS3 in March (UK you see) My dedicated DVD player has been switched on once, and that was to see the difference between upscaled HDMI and SCART.
What escapes me is why anyone would buy a stand alone Blu-Ray player! The PS3 is more capable, more updateable (word?) and just plain more fun than anything else.
Even if you don't want to play games on it, it plays CD's very well, can connect to your Ipod thingy (Even the new walkmans work) and you can surf the web.
Anything else is just daft, especially for £299.
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by Someone_PR - 2007-11-04 |
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» ok...
The thing is that I'm not the kind of guy that will not buy a new media format but if they gave me for free.. why I want to choose another format? thats the case with the ps3.. they game me a HD player for free... so I will not look in another side and I will use the blu ray player to see movies of course... thats why the fanboys the other side said the PS3 is the troyan horse for the blu ray....
In the other hand, the people that buy an external HD DVD player is because they really choose that format or they see a better deal than buying another player or just love the 360 to much, but are the people that really are in to the HD era..
For me, I more than happy with my free blu ray player and I will buy, rent and see blu ray movies when I want.
The thing is that I'm not the kind of guy that will not buy a new media format but if they gave me for free.. why I want to choose another format? thats the case with the ps3.. they game me a HD player for free... so I will not look in another side and I will use the blu ray player to see movies of course... thats why the fanboys the other side said the PS3 is the troyan horse for the blu ray....
In the other hand, the people that buy an external HD DVD player is because they really choose that format or they see a better deal than buying another player or just love the 360 to much, but are the people that really are in to the HD era..
For me, I more than happy with my free blu ray player and I will buy, rent and see blu ray movies when I want.
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by Art Vandelay - 2007-11-04 |
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» Now thats funny.
Reading a few of these comments i couldn't help but laugh. One boasting 2:1 sales and another saying he owns 10 blurays and only 6 games.
2:1 in the last 9 months isnt something to brag about especially when Bluray had more then 2:1 of the major studios on there side for most of that time. More studios means more movies. 2:1 with all odds on your favor arent numbers to brag about.
10 blurays and only 6 games. This is why the PS3 is so far behind. Did you buy a bluray player that came with a console or a console that plays bluray? I can think of 6 games ill be getting in the next month alone for the 360. I wouldn't be bragging about this fact. All this does is shine a light into the lack of quality games the PS3 offers.
So good for PS3. Sony's Bluray is out in front 2:1 which will be good for Sony's Bluray production. As far as the PS3 goes this doesn't help them much now does it?
Reading a few of these comments i couldn't help but laugh. One boasting 2:1 sales and another saying he owns 10 blurays and only 6 games.
2:1 in the last 9 months isnt something to brag about especially when Bluray had more then 2:1 of the major studios on there side for most of that time. More studios means more movies. 2:1 with all odds on your favor arent numbers to brag about.
10 blurays and only 6 games. This is why the PS3 is so far behind. Did you buy a bluray player that came with a console or a console that plays bluray? I can think of 6 games ill be getting in the next month alone for the 360. I wouldn't be bragging about this fact. All this does is shine a light into the lack of quality games the PS3 offers.
So good for PS3. Sony's Bluray is out in front 2:1 which will be good for Sony's Bluray production. As far as the PS3 goes this doesn't help them much now does it?
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Re: na2rul - 2007-11-04 |
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» Jeez gd for u
The [PS3 has no games] phrase has become old and quite frankly, annoying.
I have 3 games for both ps3 and 360 which i think is plenty 4 time being.
The [PS3 has no games] phrase has become old and quite frankly, annoying.
I have 3 games for both ps3 and 360 which i think is plenty 4 time being.
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Re: gtauk - 2007-11-04 |
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» and
i can think of 7 games ill be getting for the ps3 this month
i can think of 7 games ill be getting for the ps3 this month
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Re: Art Vandelay - 2007-11-04 |
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» Hmm
Is Mass Effect one of those games?
Is Mass Effect one of those games?
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Re: damonous - 2007-11-04 |
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» Wow -what a lack of support
Let's see: 10 BD's at avg price of $25 ($250). 6 PS3 games at an avg price of $60 ($360). That's over $610 spent in the last year for a machine that cost $600. So, more than $1200 investment. --Yeah, what a loser. He's showing no support whatsoever for the PS3. (Or, sarcasm aside: good for you buddy. So you're rich and can buy 7 games in one month. It doesn't mean that there are that many must-have games on 360 --I have both 360 and PS3. It just means you're filthy rich.)
Let's see: 10 BD's at avg price of $25 ($250). 6 PS3 games at an avg price of $60 ($360). That's over $610 spent in the last year for a machine that cost $600. So, more than $1200 investment. --Yeah, what a loser. He's showing no support whatsoever for the PS3. (Or, sarcasm aside: good for you buddy. So you're rich and can buy 7 games in one month. It doesn't mean that there are that many must-have games on 360 --I have both 360 and PS3. It just means you're filthy rich.)
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Re: gtauk - 2007-11-05 |
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» have you heard
of a birthday and saving your money? $60 is really cheap for a game because i live in the uk so everything costs more so by importing my games they are a lot cheaper for me than buying them here and if i cant import them i trade my old games in
of a birthday and saving your money? $60 is really cheap for a game because i live in the uk so everything costs more so by importing my games they are a lot cheaper for me than buying them here and if i cant import them i trade my old games in
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by xslayer91 - 2007-11-04 |
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» Kick them in the balls
If anyone does not know that the ps3 will play movies then they need to be kicked in the balls.
And as mreverdred01 said it came with a movie so that is a given that it will play movies.
I just wish that the Xbots would admit that their console sucks and hd dvd sucks just as much.
Quick question while would I want to buy all hd dvd movies instead of blueray when blueray looks better. and that is a fact not an opinion and when the ps3 is a whole lot cheaper then an hd dvd player
If anyone does not know that the ps3 will play movies then they need to be kicked in the balls.
And as mreverdred01 said it came with a movie so that is a given that it will play movies.
I just wish that the Xbots would admit that their console sucks and hd dvd sucks just as much.
Quick question while would I want to buy all hd dvd movies instead of blueray when blueray looks better. and that is a fact not an opinion and when the ps3 is a whole lot cheaper then an hd dvd player
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Re: Art Vandelay - 2007-11-04 |
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» Typical PS fan
This is why I'm glad that you love the PS3 and that Xbox Live isn't free.
Comments like this that lack common sense and are noting more then an immature rant by a person incapable of forming a complete sentence that is legible.
FYI, HD DVD players are less expensive then a PS3. Get your facts right, its the least you could do.
This is why I'm glad that you love the PS3 and that Xbox Live isn't free.
Comments like this that lack common sense and are noting more then an immature rant by a person incapable of forming a complete sentence that is legible.
FYI, HD DVD players are less expensive then a PS3. Get your facts right, its the least you could do.
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Re: What common sense is really about - 2007-11-05 |
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» ...
Well, Art it looks like people disagree with you, including me...
Well, Art it looks like people disagree with you, including me...
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by JelloBiafra - 2007-11-04 |
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» wow
really slayer your obviously uninformed, ive not read one review of a blu-ray/hd-dvd disc that looked better on blu-ray. Ontop of that, companies actually tend to look at attachment rate more then you might think and hd-dvds attachment rate is much much much better. Actually with the recent price drops and the fact that warner actually let there BD contract expire this last week is starting to actually not look so hot for BD. BTW sony didnt give you a BD player for free you dip*****, the ps3 cost 100dollars more for a reason....forced BD? God knows all the BS sony tryed to pull about certain things only being capable on their system was bs. Both formats are actually selling at a very poor rate, so companies look to the future with hd-dvd better attachment rate, and the rumor that they moved somewhere around 100,000 players this week alone thats a healthy future(the hd-a3 just went to 200buks and the hd-a2 was selling for 100bucks). Now if BD can get a player to 200bucks that will be something to talk about, but i doubt thats gonna be coming anytime soon.
really slayer your obviously uninformed, ive not read one review of a blu-ray/hd-dvd disc that looked better on blu-ray. Ontop of that, companies actually tend to look at attachment rate more then you might think and hd-dvds attachment rate is much much much better. Actually with the recent price drops and the fact that warner actually let there BD contract expire this last week is starting to actually not look so hot for BD. BTW sony didnt give you a BD player for free you dip*****, the ps3 cost 100dollars more for a reason....forced BD? God knows all the BS sony tryed to pull about certain things only being capable on their system was bs. Both formats are actually selling at a very poor rate, so companies look to the future with hd-dvd better attachment rate, and the rumor that they moved somewhere around 100,000 players this week alone thats a healthy future(the hd-a3 just went to 200buks and the hd-a2 was selling for 100bucks). Now if BD can get a player to 200bucks that will be something to talk about, but i doubt thats gonna be coming anytime soon.
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Re: Lifeline - 2007-11-04 |
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» ..
"hd-dvds attachment rate is much much much better" this is'nt exactly correct, it is better but not that much better and the attachment rate for the bluray is increasing daily..Oh and where are these numbers coming from? RUMORS? So no facts then?
"hd-dvds attachment rate is much much much better" this is'nt exactly correct, it is better but not that much better and the attachment rate for the bluray is increasing daily..Oh and where are these numbers coming from? RUMORS? So no facts then?
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by platon - 2007-11-04 |
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» so the ps3 won't help? even if it was true, they are outsold 4 to 1, lol
So they are being outsold 4 to 1 even without the ps3 as a player (this is what they say not me). So this means that when we'll all have HDTVs, if we have a ps3, we'll be able to play BDs so the BDs will outsell even more the HDDVDs? lol
Anyway, I don't see a bright future for HD-DVD. I mean, why bother with 15g when you have 23... (1 layer each)
So they are being outsold 4 to 1 even without the ps3 as a player (this is what they say not me). So this means that when we'll all have HDTVs, if we have a ps3, we'll be able to play BDs so the BDs will outsell even more the HDDVDs? lol
Anyway, I don't see a bright future for HD-DVD. I mean, why bother with 15g when you have 23... (1 layer each)
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Re: Lifeline - 2007-11-04 |
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» ..
I don't want to correct you because I agree with most of what you said but um, its not 23g for a single layer on the blu-ray its 25g and 50g dual layer and 100g dual layer doublesided but hay this means nothing in the movie business..
I don't want to correct you because I agree with most of what you said but um, its not 23g for a single layer on the blu-ray its 25g and 50g dual layer and 100g dual layer doublesided but hay this means nothing in the movie business..
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by Kingofdaberbz - 2007-11-04 |
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» no
it's to to one 2.1 million to 1.4 million and this is crumbs compared to DVD sales.The ps3 does help sales but i believe this number 13% is still alot of ppl it's well over 200,000 ppl so these numbers sound believable like myself n all the frens i know with a ps3 haven't bought 1 blu ray movie i don't think the ps3 will have much to do with who wins the Format war
it's to to one 2.1 million to 1.4 million and this is crumbs compared to DVD sales.The ps3 does help sales but i believe this number 13% is still alot of ppl it's well over 200,000 ppl so these numbers sound believable like myself n all the frens i know with a ps3 haven't bought 1 blu ray movie i don't think the ps3 will have much to do with who wins the Format war
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by JelloBiafra - 2007-11-04 |
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» well
Dont kid yourself, the attachment ratio of hardware-software hd-dvd is killing Blu-ray. The main reason warner is getting cold feet about blu-ray is because of the HUGE install base the the ps3 provides and in relation the pretty dismal sales that are being made. With stand-alone hd-dvd players going for 100bucks theyre gonna move LOTS of players(100,000 in one week is a pretty easy estimate), players that are guaranteed to sell discs. If toshiba can keep up with the demand, they only way BD stands a chance is to drop their price to compete, which they wont. Now if warner bros does indeed not re-sign a deal with BD(they havent yet and the deals been up since the 31st) thats huge and sony doesnt have much to push back. Please dont say "why bother with 15g when you have 23..." because that is really really unimportant, the average consumer could care less if their special feature have to remain on a second disc..like they have been for quite sometime.
Dont kid yourself, the attachment ratio of hardware-software hd-dvd is killing Blu-ray. The main reason warner is getting cold feet about blu-ray is because of the HUGE install base the the ps3 provides and in relation the pretty dismal sales that are being made. With stand-alone hd-dvd players going for 100bucks theyre gonna move LOTS of players(100,000 in one week is a pretty easy estimate), players that are guaranteed to sell discs. If toshiba can keep up with the demand, they only way BD stands a chance is to drop their price to compete, which they wont. Now if warner bros does indeed not re-sign a deal with BD(they havent yet and the deals been up since the 31st) thats huge and sony doesnt have much to push back. Please dont say "why bother with 15g when you have 23..." because that is really really unimportant, the average consumer could care less if their special feature have to remain on a second disc..like they have been for quite sometime.
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Re: JackBeNimble - 2007-11-04 |
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» 1080i
$100 dollars for the morons who dont know the difference between 1080i(outdated) and 1080p(now) the Ps3 is a definite influence in the format war. the sales for stand alones are slumping when compared to HD-DVD. im mean seriously why buy a stand alone when the PS3 is close in price and does twice as much. if they wanted to they could drop the price. just the other day they figured out that they can make BR disks as cheap as CDs and DVD making the HD-DVD the more expensive one to make. At this point who cares about the average consumer its the ones willing to take the next step and make the a solid foundation which in this case the average consumers likes to see. high numbers BD movies out selling BD movies 2:1 plus all the news about HD-DVDS expiring contract BBC in half a year, most major businesses selling BR stand alones exlusively, and the PS3. the average consumer is not that dumb
$100 dollars for the morons who dont know the difference between 1080i(outdated) and 1080p(now) the Ps3 is a definite influence in the format war. the sales for stand alones are slumping when compared to HD-DVD. im mean seriously why buy a stand alone when the PS3 is close in price and does twice as much. if they wanted to they could drop the price. just the other day they figured out that they can make BR disks as cheap as CDs and DVD making the HD-DVD the more expensive one to make. At this point who cares about the average consumer its the ones willing to take the next step and make the a solid foundation which in this case the average consumers likes to see. high numbers BD movies out selling BD movies 2:1 plus all the news about HD-DVDS expiring contract BBC in half a year, most major businesses selling BR stand alones exlusively, and the PS3. the average consumer is not that dumb
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by JelloBiafra - 2007-11-04 |
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» hmmm
first of all 1080i is not outdated...as a matter of fact NO tv stations that im aware of are broadcasting in 1080p. Ontop of that the difference between 1080p/I is really really small when it comes to film and if you have a 1080p set your TV will deinterlace the image for you...not to say you shouldnt buy the a3(native 1080p) hd-dvd players currently use excellent scaling chips. Dont kid yourself about the power of the ps3 in swaying this war, in theory youre right but the data just doesnt show that...hence the attach rate thing im talking about WB is upset because BD SHOULD be selling like hotcakes because of the ps3 but it isnt, is it selling better than hd-dvd...yup. But in the future now that toshiba has plummeted the prices on the players and theyre selling like mad the install base of hd-dvd will be getting huge through the holiday. Thats BS too about if they wanted to they COULD drop the price, if the could wtf why arent they? Theyre stand alone players are selling terribly, and idk where you pulled that BS about BD costing less to manufacture than hd-dvds, the cost to produce a BD is around 5bucks wheras a dvd is just UNDER a dollar. If you dont think this format war is gonna be decided by the average consumer youre loopy, cause thats where 80%(prolly more tbqh) of the population is at. Really btw the bbs contract being up in half a year aint a big deal, it will probably get re-done. Id be worried about WB not wanting to re-sign with BD, seeing as how theyre contract is uhh aready up? Exactly what "major buissness" sell BD stand alones only? The closest thing to that announcement was Target but all that ended up being was an end-cap ad campaign. Just by the way you speak i can read you as being nothing but a sony fanboy, so please go enjoy your overpriced system, that has a strange lack of games.
first of all 1080i is not outdated...as a matter of fact NO tv stations that im aware of are broadcasting in 1080p. Ontop of that the difference between 1080p/I is really really small when it comes to film and if you have a 1080p set your TV will deinterlace the image for you...not to say you shouldnt buy the a3(native 1080p) hd-dvd players currently use excellent scaling chips. Dont kid yourself about the power of the ps3 in swaying this war, in theory youre right but the data just doesnt show that...hence the attach rate thing im talking about WB is upset because BD SHOULD be selling like hotcakes because of the ps3 but it isnt, is it selling better than hd-dvd...yup. But in the future now that toshiba has plummeted the prices on the players and theyre selling like mad the install base of hd-dvd will be getting huge through the holiday. Thats BS too about if they wanted to they COULD drop the price, if the could wtf why arent they? Theyre stand alone players are selling terribly, and idk where you pulled that BS about BD costing less to manufacture than hd-dvds, the cost to produce a BD is around 5bucks wheras a dvd is just UNDER a dollar. If you dont think this format war is gonna be decided by the average consumer youre loopy, cause thats where 80%(prolly more tbqh) of the population is at. Really btw the bbs contract being up in half a year aint a big deal, it will probably get re-done. Id be worried about WB not wanting to re-sign with BD, seeing as how theyre contract is uhh aready up? Exactly what "major buissness" sell BD stand alones only? The closest thing to that announcement was Target but all that ended up being was an end-cap ad campaign. Just by the way you speak i can read you as being nothing but a sony fanboy, so please go enjoy your overpriced system, that has a strange lack of games.
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by Advertising - |
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by jasonhoutx - 2007-11-04 |
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» Porn will be the factor
Just like the betamax ver. vhs, the porn industry will decide who wins. The consoles will be like a drop in the bucket compared to the swing the porn industry has.
Just like the betamax ver. vhs, the porn industry will decide who wins. The consoles will be like a drop in the bucket compared to the swing the porn industry has.
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by the by - 2007-11-05 |
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» its amazing
how many xbots come out of the woodwork when the bluray topic comes up!!!!
anyway, on topic, desperate words from a desperate man!!!!
how many xbots come out of the woodwork when the bluray topic comes up!!!!
anyway, on topic, desperate words from a desperate man!!!!
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